College soccer and the YNTs - the writing is on the wall and it says "go pro ASAP."

Discussion in 'College & Amateur Soccer' started by Sandon Mibut, Nov 3, 2011.

Page 7 of 13
  1. collegesoccer

    collegesoccer Member+

    Apr 11, 2005
    #151 collegesoccer, Mar 1, 2012
    So how many foreign based Americans should be in the starting 11 or part of the 23 in 2014 ?

    I would say no more than two. Fabian Johnson, maybe, because we cannot produce a left back and he did a pretty good job. The other two German-American guys showed me very little yesterday.

    Not sure what is with the 23s but unless there is a Lionel Messi hidden in that group (and they would proabably play for their home country if they were) I don't think Klinsmann carries any more than two on the roster with no more than one in the lineup. These players should be clearly the best option and other than Johnson not sure that is the case.
     
  2. USvsIRELAND

    USvsIRELAND Member+

    Jul 19, 2004
    ATL
    #152 USvsIRELAND, Mar 2, 2012
    College was not a moot point for Mix Diskerud. He has stated that he considering attending college in the United States.
     
  3. scoachd1

    scoachd1 Member+

    Jun 2, 2004
    Southern California
    #153 scoachd1, Mar 2, 2012
    I think your post sums up the problem with Sandon's title. It is not as soon as possible but instead as soon as appropriate. In many ways college soccer is like AA or AAA leagues in baseball. Sure most Baseball all-stars are not going to spend 4 years at that level. But the reason professional baseball owners invest in these leagues is because the realize going directly to the to professional level is not in the best interest of most of their young players. Going up a year too soon ruins careers far more than going up a year too late.

    The alternative to playing college soccer is MLS reserve Leagues, US minor leagues or places abroad. Each can have significant drawbacks. MLS reserves have a very limited schedule of 10, often uneven games plus any pre-season games. If you looked at goals scored by academy players on the MLS soccer website, Chivas USA had goals listed by a coach and a U16 academy player. In contrast players in colleges play at least 20 very meaningful games in the fall, at least 10 PDL games in the summer and 5-6 games in the spring. While a young professional player may get token minutes against a big foreign opponent a key a big school like UCLA could get big minutes in games AC Milan.

    Going outside the country put players in a more full-time development with likely better coaching. But it also carries significant risks - especially if they do not have ties and family to the country they are going. Most kids who go to college stay within 5 hours of where they grew up and many who go to school further away transfer back.

    When you leave the country the difference in culture is much greater. When you add to the fact that as a professional you become a commodity bought by clubs and sold by agents, things can get pretty harsh. Look at the players signed by Traffic. There is the USL/NASL lower level league option. This works in other countries but I'm not sure it is all that viable.
     
  4. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    #154 Sandon Mibut, Mar 21, 2012
    So the US roster for Olympic qualifying was finally set today.
    http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...-adu-agudelo-shea-highlight-us-olympic-roster

    Here's how it breaks down regarding college soccer.

    NONE: 9 - (Freddy Adu, Juan Agudelo, Terrence Boyd, Mix Diskerud, Joe Gyau, Bill Hamid, Jared Jeffrey, Brek Shea, Jorge Villafana)
    ONE: 4 - (Joe Corona, Perry Kitchen, Amobi Okugo, Sheanon Williams)
    TWO: 4 – (Teal Bunbury, Sean Johnson, Tony Taylor, Zarek Valentin)
    THREE – 2 (Ike Opara, Ofori Sarkodie)
    FOUR – 1 (Michael Stephens)

    TOTAL SEASONS OF COLLEGE SOCCER: 22, basically an average of one season of college ball per player.

    This total is actually a tad high as Stephens supposedly replaced Dilly Duka (2 seasons of college) and Williams replaced Josh Gatt (DNP college soccer).

    Of the 11 players that played college ball, none played last season.
     
  5. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    #155 Sandon Mibut, Mar 21, 2012
    BTW, here is Canada's roster for Olympic qualifying. It's slightly friendlier towards college soccer.

    GOALKEEPERS (2): Adam Janssen (NSC Minnesota Stars), Michal Misiewicz (FC Edmonton)

    DEFENDERS (6): Andrés Fresenga (Racing Club de Montevideo, Uruguay), Nana Attakora (unattached), Doneil Henry (Toronto FC), Matt Stinson (Toronto FC), Drew Beckie (University of Denver), Philippe Davies (unattached)

    MIDFIELDERS (7): Russell Teibert (Vancouver Whitecaps FC), Kyle Bekker (Boston College), Bryce Alderson (Vancouver Whitecaps FC), Samuel Piette (FC Metz, France), Shaun Saiko (FC Edmonton), Sherif El-Masri (Court Young Lions, Singapore), Evan James (Montreal Impact)

    FORWARDS (5): Marcus Haber (St. Johnstone FC, Scotland), Babayele Sodade (Seattle Sounders FC), Lucas Cavallini (Club Nacional, Uruguay), Carl Haworth (unattached), Randy Edwini-Bonsu (Eintracht Braunschweig, Germany)


    Drew Beckie is a rising senior at Denver.
    Kyle Bekker is a rising senior at Boston College.
    Randy Edwini-Bonsu played three seasons at the University of Alberta (CIS – Canada’s version of the NCAA)
    Carl Haworth played four seasons at Niagara.
    Evan James played four seasons at Charlotte.
    Adam Janssen played four seasons at Long Island.
    Babayele Sodade played four seasons at Alabama-Birmingham.
    Matt Stinson played one season at Winthrop.

    Beckie and Becker are, obviously, still in college and Haworth, James, Janssen and Sodade were seniors last fall.

    Counting the kid who played Canadian university ball, that's 26 seasons of college soccer played by the Canucks' roster.

    So, hey, if you're Canadian you can still play four-years of college soccer and have a decent shot at a YNT career. US - not so much.
     
  6. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    #156 Sandon Mibut, Mar 21, 2012
    While we're on this topic, it appears two players with US college ties made Trinidad's Olympic qualifying roster.

    The Crew's Kevan George, who was a senior at Central Florida last fall and College of Charleston rising senior Sean de Silva both made the roster.

    http://www.concacaf.com/page/MOQ/NewsDetail/0,,12813~2686103,00.html

    Given the amount of Trinidadians who have played college soccer in the US, I'm actually a little surprised there aren't more players with college ties on the T&T roster. (There might be one or two that I missed, though I didn't recognize any and googled most of them and didn't see even a tie to an obscure school.) I thought guys like DC United's Nick LeLon (Louisville), South Florida's Leston Paul, SLU's Christian Briggs, ex-BU player Stephen Knox and Liberty's Uriah Bentick would have made the team.

    By the way, if you care about such things, de Silva does not fir the typical stereotype of what most of us expect a Trinidadian player to look like.

    http://www.cofcsports.com/ViewArtic...&DB_OEM_ID=14800&ATCLID=1553234&Q_SEASON=2011
     
  7. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    #157 Sandon Mibut, Mar 22, 2012
    Here's who played for the US 23s tonight in their 6-0 win over Cuba and how much college soccer they played.

    10 seasons of college soccer in the starting lineup, three more off the bench.

    STARTERS
    Hamid – 0
    Valentin – 2 (Akron)
    Opara – 3 (Wake Forest)
    Kitchen – 1 (Akron)
    Sarkodie – 3 (Akron)
    Jeffries – 0
    Diskerud – 0
    Corona – 1 (San Diego State)
    Shea – 0
    Agudelo – 0
    Adu – 0

    SUBS
    Bunbury – 2 (Akron)
    Gyau – 0
    Okugo – 1 (UCLA)

    SCORING SUMMARY
    11 - Corona (unassisted)
    37 - Agudelo (Shea)
    40 - OG
    43 - Corona (Diskerud)
    62 - Adu (Opara)
    88 - Corona (Diskerud)

    NOTE: Cuba had a player sent-off in the 20th minute.
     
  8. Dsocc

    Dsocc Member

    Feb 13, 2002
    #158 Dsocc, Mar 23, 2012
    So, the weighted average among starters was 0.91 season, and 1.0 seasons among all who played. Arguably just as significant, 55% of the starters never matriculated.

    By comparison, the 2000 Olympic Team was comprised almost excusively of former college players (save John O'Brien and Landon Donovan, a non-starter), and the weighted average among the starters was over 3 seasons.

    So...yeah...the writing is definitely on the wall.
     
  9. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    #159 Sandon Mibut, Mar 23, 2012
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jU2w6rxAIF4"]The Detentions - I'm Not Saying I'm Just Saying [Original] - YouTube[/ame]
     
  10. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    #160 Sandon Mibut, Mar 23, 2012
    So, several current and former college players were on the field in the scoreless Canada-El Salvador qualifier that preceded the US-Cuba game.


    Lineups:

    Canada: Michal Misiewicz; Russell Teibert, Nana Attakora, Drew Beckie,[ Matt Stinson; Kyle Bekker, Bryce Alderson (Phillipe Davies, 75'), Shaun Saiko (Randy Edwini-Bonsu, 54'); Marcus Haber, Carl Haworth, Evan James (Sherif El-Masri, 60')

    El Salvador: Yimy Cuellar; Milton Molina, Xavier García, Alexander Mendoza, Elman Rivas (Darwin Ceren, 46'); Isidro Gutiérrez (Dustin Corea, 62'), Jaime Alas, Alexander Larín, Richard Menjivar; Lester Blanco (Jonathan Aguila, '71), Andrés Flores​

    http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2012/03/22/olympic-qualifying-canada-el-salvador-end-scoreless

    I didn't realize he was on the roster till I saw the box score, but Richard Menjivar was a senior at Cal State Bakersfield last fall. He's a former Academy Best XI player who spent a little time with the US youth national teams.
     
  11. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    #161 Sandon Mibut, Mar 24, 2012
    Both de Silva and George started for Trinidad last night in their 7-1 thrashing by Mexico.

    Somehow, I don't think either were the problem.
     
  12. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    #162 Sandon Mibut, Mar 25, 2012
    Richard Menjivar, who was a senior at Cal State Bakersfield last fall, started and scored El Salvador’s third goal in their 4-0 win over Cuba Saturday.
    In the US-Canada game (or fiasco, if you prefer), only 5 of the US starters and one of the subs played college soccer and combined they played 10 seasons. For Canada, three of the starters and two of the subs played college soccer for a combined 15 seasons.

    US STARTERS
    Bill Hamid, 0
    Jorge Villafana, 0
    Ike Opara, 3 (Wake Forest)
    Perry Kitchen, 1 (Akron)
    Zarek Valentin, 2 (Akron)
    Freddy Adu, 0
    Jared Jeffrey, 0
    Mikkel Diskerud, 0
    Joe Benny Corona, 1 (San Diego State)
    Brek Shea, 0
    Teal Bunbury, 2 (Akron)

    US SUBS
    Joe Gyau, 0
    Terrence Boyd, 0
    Amobi Okugo, 1 (UCLA)

    CANADA STARTERS
    Michal Misiewicz, 0
    Nana Attakora, 0
    Doneil Henry, 0
    Andreas Fresenga, 0
    Kyle Bekker 3, (rising senior @Boston College)
    Philippe Davies, 0
    Russell Teibert, 0
    Samuel Piette, 0
    Randy Edwini-Bonsu, 3 (University of Alberta)
    Lucas Cavallini, 0 '
    Babayele Sodade, 4 (Alabama-Birmingham)

    CANADA SUBS
    Evan James, 4 (Charlotte)
    Matt Stinson, 1 (Winthrop)
    Sherif El-Masri, 0
    Today, Kevan George, who played four seasons at Central Florida, went 90 for Trinidad in its 1-1 tie with Panama.
     
  13. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    #163 Cliveworshipper, Mar 27, 2012
    What does the handwriting on the wall say about the recent youth results and having pro players on the YNT's?

    It seems we had better success when they were mostly college kids.
     
  14. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    #164 Sandon Mibut, Mar 27, 2012
    That's a fair question, though I suspect that toothpaste isn't going back in the tube.

    And some will point out that many of the worst performers were the Opara, Sarkodie, Johnson, Bunbury and Kitchen - the ones who played most of the college soccer on the team.

    It's not entirely fair, but don't be surprised if one of the changes the USSF and MLS make as a result of the failure to qualify for the Olympics is to get more of the players, especially the backs, out of college even earlier.
     
  15. collegesoccer

    collegesoccer Member+

    Apr 11, 2005
    #165 collegesoccer, Mar 27, 2012
    US Soccer needs college soccer badly ....

    ... there is always someone to blame other than themselves.
     
  16. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    #166 Sandon Mibut, Mar 27, 2012
    I don't think that they think they do.

    While very true, that's certainly not unique to them. Pretty universal when things go wrong.
     
  17. Hararea

    Hararea Member+

    Jan 21, 2005
    #167 Hararea, Mar 27, 2012
    Can't say I buy this one, Sandon. Apart from a few whack jobs on the YNT forum, does anyone seriously believe that Kitchen was worsened by spending one semester at Akron? If anything, he and Bunbury were selected because they had more pro experience than most of the alternatives. Also, I don't buy the suggestion that Sarkodie was a weak performer, nor should we forget that before letting one in, Johnson had repeatedly saved our bacon.

    As someone else said, "We had better success when they were mostly college kids."
     
  18. Hararea

    Hararea Member+

    Jan 21, 2005
    #168 Hararea, Mar 27, 2012
    You're probably right about this, but it says more about the USSF's arrogance than it does about our current reality.
     
  19. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    #169 Cliveworshipper, Mar 27, 2012
    Where did Hamid play? He had two bad games in a row. I though his performance was worse than Johnson's, though neither was good. And I think there are other keepers out of college who could do better than both of the ones I saw.
     
  20. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    #170 Sandon Mibut, Apr 4, 2012
    Roster for the latest U20 camp.

    Ramos called in 24 players.

    Ten players were, and still are, in college. (Listed in bold.)

    Five are still in HS. (In italics) Of those, two have signed LOIs to play college soccer next year, two others are in 11th grade and one who is a senior but hasn't announced a college.

    One is out of HS but hasn't matriculated to college soccer or signed a pro deal. (Which is odd.) (Underlined).

    Eight have signed pro deals.

    GOALKEEPERS (2): Tomas Gomez (Georgetown; Webster Groves, Mo.), Jake McGuire (Chivas USA Academy; Pomona, Calif.)

    DEFENDERS (9): Christian Dean (California; East Palo Alto, Calif.), Bryan Gallego (Akron; Kinnelon, N.J.), Jordan McCrary (North Carolina; Marietta, Ga.), Eric Miller (Creighton; Woodbury, Minn.), Juan Pablo Ocegueda (UANL Tigres; Riverside, Calif.), Boyd Okwuonu (North Carolina; Edmund, Okla.), William Packwood (Birmingham City; Concord, Mass.), Jeffrey Payeras (LA Galaxy Academy; Hawthorne, Calif.), Derek Vogel (Pateadores; Long Beach, Calif.)

    MIDFIELDERS (7): Seth Casiple (California; Rocklin, Calif.), Luis Gil (Real Salt Lake; Garden Grove, Calif.), Benji Joya (Santos Laguna; San Jose, Calif.), Mikey Lopez (North Carolina; Mission, Texas), Collin Martin (D.C. United Academy; Chevy Chase, Md.), Victor Pineda (Chicago Fire; Bolingbrook, Ill.), Wil Trapp (Akron; Gahanna, Ohio)

    FORWARDS (6): Daniel Cuevas (Santos Laguna; Sacramento, Calif.), Ethan Decker (New York Red Bulls Academy; Manahawkin, N.J.), Daniel Garcia (FC Dallas Academy; Dallas, Texas), Jack McBean (LA Galaxy; Newport Beach, Calif.), James Rogers (New Mexico, Salt Lake City, Utah), Jonathan Top (FC Dallas; Fort Worth, Texas)
     
  21. Hararea

    Hararea Member+

    Jan 21, 2005
    #171 Hararea, Apr 4, 2012
    Not that I know anything about Payeras' situation, but in a lot of cases it would make sense to enroll in a community college while continuing to play DA. That's assuming the MLS club is paying for your soccer, of course.

    With an extra year to develop and to get seen, college coaches would be likely to give you a better offer. Plus, of course, there's a chance of landing a pro contract. I'm pretty sure FC Dallas had some kids who were already in college last year.
     
  22. truthandlife

    truthandlife Member

    Jul 28, 2003
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    #172 truthandlife, Apr 15, 2012
    Tweet by Ives Galarcep last night:

    "Food4Thought: 6-0 Sporting KC = 6 USA-born starters, 8 college product starters.
    0-5 Toronto FC - 1 USA-born starter, 3 college product starters."
     
  23. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

    Jan 18, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    #173 SUDano, Apr 16, 2012
    This proves that for the US to get better at soccer we need more players playing more college years. Toronto being a Canadian team knows this and is so bad that they need more American college players, Wait, What?
     
  24. collegesoccer

    collegesoccer Member+

    Apr 11, 2005
    #174 collegesoccer, Apr 16, 2012
    It means that to be a good MLS side you should have more college players because those are the players suited best for the league. Hopefully our national team players will someday be playing for Manchester United, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, etc. To tell me that the MLS clubs have the secret for player development over a college team ... well I'm just not buying it yet. Time will tell.
     
  25. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

    Jan 18, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    #175 SUDano, Apr 17, 2012
    Is that what it means? Really. Do the same thing for Portland, Vancouver, Los Angeles......
    and tell me what it means. It doesn't mean a hill a beans on any over riding conclusion.
    Its called selective anecdotal statistics. KC is good right now and Toronto isn't.
     
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