Ole - shouldn't the figure for Red Bull Arena in New Jersey be 25,000 rather than 20,000? I'm guessing this is a simple typo.
I bet all those "wimps" in LA who had to stay in their cozy home didn't even bother to watch the game on TV. And yeah, weathermen do hate soccer, lol. Remember the whole UEFA CL incident?
As larry david pointed out, the reason weatherman forecast rain for weekends is so they can clear the golf courses for themselves. Comparison of up and coming leagues, afte two rounds: MLS: 21,107 (19 teams) Jleague: 20,312 (18 teams) Chinese SL: 23,531 (16 teams) I know its only the second week, and all leagues will plummet, but if you ever needed a sign that soccer is becoming even more decentralized, its in those figures. France is averaging 18,000 (mainly due to marseilles stadium reconstruction), dutch 19,000, Italy at around 24,000. The shift will happen alot sooner than most people will care to admit.
I'd say it already has happened. Quite surprised by Chinese numbers though. Gotta take a look on them.
As you can imagine, its heavily skewed by 2-3 clubs. Though unlike some of the MLS purists that want every club to have the same attendance figures, I dont see anything wrong with that. Not sure if its happened yet, because they will all probably end up in the 15-18,000 bracket by the end of the season. That 20k is some mental barrier that admittedly I attach a lot of importance to, but that has to be the aim for all these leagues with potential. The signs are good though. Japan getting back on its forward trajectory after the downturn last year, Chinas renaissance on pace, and MLS consolidating.
Holy crap, is that China number legit? Do you mind posting a source? I had no idea they were pulling those kind of numbers there.
China's league gets good average attendance, but it's got some obstacles to overcome before those attendance numbers translate into a healthy league. http://www.economist.com/node/21541716 Hey, sweet straw man, bro! Did you build that yourself?
Its correct. csldata.com, though because its in Chinese, you're better off looking at the Wikipedia page of the CSL, as someone compiles the numbers there. They're not really pulling "great" numbers...last year there was a breakout club Guangzhou Evergrande that averaged like 50,000. That heavily skewed the average at just over 18,000 - again though, nothing wrong with that. But with Dario Conca's signing, and now Anelka, the league is certainly getting an unforeseen jump in attendance. In 2004, China was pulling 10,000 a match, so by comparison they've come a long way. If that was some kind of insult, you failed miserably.
Just didn't want your silly assertion that there is a group of MLS fans who want teams to all have the same attendance go unchallenged. Sorry it was hard to understand! I'll try harder next time!
Unless there's a massive protest, I'd also like to see those other numbers that you initially put forward in the last thread. The ones based on standard deviation (I think).
The only difference between the Chinese Super League and MLS is that the Chinese league has those 2-3 teams pulling massive 30,000+ numbers. MLS only has Seattle. The only other team in MLS capable of averaging over 30,000 a year is Vancouver. We can blame them if MLS averages below the Chinese League again this year.
Total: 358,811 Games: 17 Average: 21,107 Median: 19,047 Median-33%: 12,722 Median+33%: 25,445 <MED-33%: 3 / 17.6% >MED+33%: 3 / 17.6%
My issue with those numbers is that the season median is obviously a moving target, so the good and the bad fluctuate on a weekly basis. Perhaps that is shortsighted on my part because as we get to May/June and the median is relatively stable that constant fluctuation will stop. I have no problem with it being posted obviously just noting the reason I elected to not incorporate it in the AAQ. If the change proves to be worthwhile I can work with Ole to incorporate it in place of the floor and ceiling.
i think i can agree that while MED +/-33% might be an improvement over 10K/20K for defining "good" and "bad" it isn't as good as the %CAP because as somebody pointed out %CAP is both a factor of the club's intentions/goals (where they set the capacity) so it is a fair thing to judge them by and is also flexible enough to take into consideration the size limitations of stadiums ... so while SJE plays in a stadium with a capacity of 10,525 they aren't punished by all of their games being in the "bad" category because a near sell out even in a small stadium is "good". i only posted it because the fellow poster asked but i do think the new %CAP 70/90 is a much better metric to use.
Excellent point. And thanks for posting. I'll keep that in mind. Hopefully it won't cause all sorts of discussions. I think many of us in here have hashed a lot of this stuff out so that we understand the issues with each.
while attendance is a good talking point for the decentralizing of soccer, it is the money that is the real gauge. when the money starts decentralizing, then we can talk. until then, not so much.
the percentage of cap numbers utility goes to buggery with NE and DC though. EDIT: just saw that somewhat arbitrary cap numbers where put in place for these two.
well at least in the case of DCU it isn't "arbitrary" as they have closed off a bunch of the upper part of the stadium and are only selling tickets to the lower part due to the general decrepit nature of RFK and due to lower costs by not opening the whole stadium. as for NER? who knows ... but i would have used a generic placeholder 22K for any team without a SSS anyway as i did last season so not much difference.
i think the numbers are about as fair as can be used, doubly so as its a very small minority of situations, and we have precedent in seattle for instance.
Agreed. Perhaps there is an algebraic formula that would let us add attendance and tv viewership together in a way that approximates the combined economic value. Maybe a question for the tv rating threads. Presumably the merchandising revenue will follow eventually if the audience is there. And obviously mls tv ratings are miniscule both domestically and internationally compared to the big leagues.