Teal Bunbury vs. C.J. Sapong

Discussion in 'Sporting Kansas City' started by vividox, Mar 11, 2012.

  1. Replicant

    Replicant Member

    Nov 5, 2010
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, if you read on twitter and some of the comments here, some people are treting it like one is a 10 and the other a 0. Not everyone, but theres a good number of people basically saying that. I personally just prefer that CJ fits our playing style better, but I cannot ignore what Teal can do.

    As far as Teal vs EJ, I really don't see it as the same. They don't have the same attitude. Both ambitious, but I'd honestly say that Teal is more intelligent and probably better recognizes his faults. Watching his body language, I think sometimes he can be a bit hard on himself.

    Plus, he'd never make a "grown ass man"-esque comment. :D He knows how to say the right things (not that I'm a fan of that or anything).
     
  2. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  3. BenC1357

    BenC1357 Member

    Feb 23, 2001
    KC
    +1

    I'll take credit with you or take crap with you, but my gut tells me we are correct. The only possible saving grace for Teal is that his dad was a pro.
     
  4. Felixx219

    Felixx219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 8, 2004
    Kansas City, MO
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would think that his dad would be constantly telling him to work his ass off.

    I have never gotten people that have the physical abilities to be a professional athlete and then ever more, they accomplish being a professionally athlete and even further that they are a professional athlete with that ability to be a star in their sport and they do not work their ass off to be the best they can be. I think anyone who becomes an athlete would have that fire in their belly to just work all the time to continue to get better and doing so by working hard in practice, keeping yourself in top physical condition, eating a good diet, studying film, studying tactics, and whatever else they can do to give themselves an edge.

    I'm not saying Teal never does any of this but just in general. Eddie Johnson was tremendously lazy on the field so I can only imagine how lazy he was a practice, in the off-season, and in his downtime during the season.

    If all of our players could have the work effort and heart of people like Jimmy Conrad and Davy Arnaud, we would be competing for the Supporter's Shield for sure. This is probably one of the best contributions we will miss from Davy, his example he set for younger players. Davy wasnt always the best player and probably overall he was above average to sometimes good, but he worked his ass off every single time he stepped on the field for every minute he was there.

    It appears that maybe Besler will be our next player to have that kind of heart. We need someone to step up and be that player.
     
  5. Diego Pasley

    Diego Pasley Member

    Jun 26, 2005
    Lake Ozark, MO
    I personally think the team as a whole seems to play better with CJ up top, but do have to give credit to Vermes. Starting Teal (when he is available) and having him run at defenders then bringing CJ's big body and fresh legs in to face a worn out defense makes sense. I dont see starting CJ and bringing Teal in having the same impact. I would have liked to see CJ in for Teal closer to the 60 minute mark, but hey, it worked. As stated, kind of a non-issue now that teal is off to the olympic squad, but when both are available I can see Vermes thinking, even if it is not what I would prefer.
     
  6. Porscheman

    Porscheman New Member

    Jan 6, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    I think Beasler as well as Seth. Man that boy is ever present. I love it. As far as CJ v. Teal, I have always been in the CJ camp... I think he works harder. I show him running to finish at the goal when it is a "lost cause" not so much with Teal. He does the "I'll move forward because thats my job but then walk and turn around bit" quite a lot. Saving energy? Maybe, when do we get to see that energy? On the other hand, I agree CJ is a great person to bring in as a sub and what a lux. we have with being able to do that!
     
  7. SombraAla

    SombraAla Member+

    Apr 2, 2006
    Waldo (Kansas City)
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How does this conversation about heart and hustle go anywhere without a mention of Roger Espinoza? You know, the guy that sometimes has too much heart or too much hustle... I remember Davy getting a red card vs. LA back in Arrowhead due to a very similar play as Roger got his vs. RSL last year... and as such I think of Roger in a very similar way as I think of Davy.

    I also have to chuckle at the comparison made here about CJ vs. Teal in regards to running after lost causes. On Sat. we saw Teal run down Hamid multiple times (on DC back passes) when he had very little chance of actually getting anything out of it. One of the two he actually deflected the ball to Espinoza and another he forced Hamid to hit it out of bounds. 20+ yards of sprinting after a lost cause, getting results, and yet he gets no credit for it here it seems. Yet I didn't see CJ do the same in his ~20 minutes (though, to be honest, I only remember one time that he really had the opportunity to and it didn't necessarily make sense to chase down Hamid in that instance).

    Still, I will agree with you that Teal has not always been the epitome of hustle throughout his career with SKC. There have times he has switched off or otherwise not tried very hard - I'm not saying to forget all of that, but he deserves credit for working his butt off against DC. Whether he can sustain that work rate remains to be seen, but I am cautiously optimistic. Teal knows, at least, that if he doesn't work hard that there's a very decent replacement waiting and probably deserving just as much time.
     
  8. cjgwizard

    cjgwizard Member

    Apr 25, 2006
    LSP, section 129
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If Teal had still been on the field during that corner in DC instead of CJ, I think there is a good chance that we might have only come home with 1 point instead of 3. Teal does not stick his head into danger zones on free kicks. On occasion, a ball will come bounding out to him off a FK, but he does not put himself in harm's way to go after a header. CJ is WAY better in the air and just out-muscling somebody off a 50-50 ball. Teal's best asset is getting on the end of a pass behind the defense...remember the two goals he scored against Houston during the regular season home game and the first goal in Colorado in game 1 the playoffs. Zusi and Cesar have a great knack for putting him in behind defenses to work his magic.

    They both are very different in their strengths, but I am on the CJ bandwagon.....he just seems to work harder to keep possession. I look forward to seeing him in the starting XI for the next few weeks, and maybe getting a chance to see Soony and/or Dom get some minutes as well.
     
  9. Porscheman

    Porscheman New Member

    Jan 6, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    I guess I missed the times during Saturday's game where Teal did that. (That was not meant to sound sarcastic :) ) I agree with you if you talk about heart and passion Roger needs to be spoken about. It is funny, for whatever reason, I always take him for granted. Bad, I know but that is the way I am. Your last paragraph is pretty right on as well. I hope he sees CJ as working for his top spot and that makes him stay on his toes (no pun intended).
     
  10. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    on the opposite end of that though, that would have meant CJ started and there were no chances Bunbury had that I could say that CJ would have finished. Would we blame CJ then because he played the majority of the game? Doubtful.
     
  11. kcscsupporter

    kcscsupporter Member+

    Apr 17, 2002
    D17
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    well, that's a flawed premise. who's to say what else would've changed had cj been in instead of teal? would our players have made the exact same passes and decisions. would dc's?

    i know what you're meaning to say is that, if presented with the exact same opportunities, would cj have done any better? and for argument's sake (especially on bigsoccer), i suppose that's probably good enough to have a discussion about it. however, the reality is that those exact opportunities wouldn't have been the same.
     
  12. bobunbury

    bobunbury Member

    Aug 16, 2004
    No doubt that Bunbury constantly pressured the the back line as well as the gk. That was Bunbury's best game to date in a SKC uniform. Crazy, maybe, but here is why: for the 1st time, he made holding-up the play for his teammates his primary duty.

    In the past, Bunbury would look to score first, thus letting the ball get away from him. It's somewhat like a wideout turning and making a run before he catches the ball.

    My sense is, someone did get to his ear and that someone is Caleb Porter or maybe Vermes finally had "the talk" with him. He has to understand, you do what coaches instruct you to do and the goals will follow.

    I was also impressed by Bunbury's runs. The problem is SKC doesn't have that #10 that can punish opponents with passes on his runs. Zusi tries, but he just doesn't have the skill-set (vision). Zusi constantly takes a touch or two before releasing the ball. that was evident by the shouting match with Kamara. I digress!

    Last year, I was skeptical of Sapong's play, I no longer am. He is the real deal. One can be sure that if the ball is in the air on any part of the field, and he is around it, Sapong is going to win it 80-90% of the times. Additionally, he is a very good dribbler.

    These two young gifted players compliment each other really well. Here is to a successful season for the both of them.
     
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  13. SombraAla

    SombraAla Member+

    Apr 2, 2006
    Waldo (Kansas City)
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Though this is something that is totally teachable - Zusi already has a good feel for the game and pretty good vision. He doesn't see everything and some of the stuff he does see isn't as quick as we (fans, coach, teammates, Zusi himself) would like... but I think he's growing in this regard.

    Also - I think that at least as far as the 1st half was concerned PV wanted everything to go through the flanks (and to possess above making risks to create chances). We started going a bit more direct and down the center in the 2nd half, resulting in Teal getting one springing pass that he should've done better with (really the mistake of the game for him). But we also saw less of the ball in the 2nd half due to putting more of an emphasis of creating chances (a.k.a. 'trying to win the game') than possessing (not to mention that DC was able to adjust a bit to account for our high pressure which seemed to catch them by surprise).

    So it wasn't really Zusi that needed to feed Teal in the 1st half as much as it was Kei/Convey/Sinovic/Myers, and unsurprisingly when playing on the road, PV didn't have the outside backs push up nearly as much as we probably can expect this weekend - well, Myers did get up a bit more than Seth (also unsurprising), but he still seemed held-back to me a bit...

    And honestly, that was somewhat strange of a tactic to use with Teal since he doesn't seem as aerially inclined as, say, CJ...

    But that made me wonder - which of the two is better at providing high pressure? I'm inclined to say Teal but maybe that's just because of seeing him more on Sat. Interested in hearing everyone else's thoughts on the matter, though.
     
  14. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And that was part of my point, whose to say we have the corner opportunity that CJ finished if Teal was still on the field? We could have had a different opportunity that he finished.....
     
  15. kcscsupporter

    kcscsupporter Member+

    Apr 17, 2002
    D17
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    oh absolutely ... it works the other way as well.
     
  16. cjgwizard

    cjgwizard Member

    Apr 25, 2006
    LSP, section 129
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    All I was saying was that in that exact situation, Teal would not have been in the herd trying to get his head on the ball the way CJ did. Not saying if CJ had started ahead of Teal....just that CJ in that situation finished where Teal likely would not have been in the same position. Of course, maybe Collin or Kei would have been in that spot, but I seriously doubt Teal would have been....
     
  17. Beech

    Beech Member

    Jul 26, 2001
    Kansas City
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Although I favor CJ's work rate and skillset over Teal's like most keep in mind CJ is only doing what he does traditionally for 20 minutes. Teal plays long enough to have several points of flub and half runs for people to talk about as he always runs against fresh legs. HOwever, we have a winning formula that works right now and that has been for Teal to bang and stretch Centerbacks for 70 and then unleash the beast for him if there hasn't been another need for his (CJ's) services prior to. When that starts not working then we change the chemistry. Call it Teal's to lose but I think until that approach doesn't work that's what it is.

    Comparisons of Teal to Eddie Johnson are accurate though. Teal's got a better head than Eddie but you can definitely see where his career could definitely head south if he doesn't listen, apply and put in the work. If he does become a true professional, instead of a young talent with all the gifts, yes he could be a perfect #9 for any team.

    By professional I mean you recognize your weaknesses and you work diligently to develop them to where they are not noticed. If I'm a defender now, I know I only have to worry about him trying to turn me, if he trys to control or distribute, the stone feet will take care of my defense for me and he will not be a threat. Wanna take a play off? Good so do I and we can jog together as I'm tired too.

    If Teal can fix his touch, especially on a hot pass, there's really not too many other things you can pick apart. CJ at this point can handle most anything coming his way and drop the ball at his feet and not 8 feet out. But again that's in 20 minute windows. CJ v Teal is a good competition and will ultimately result in both pushing each other as it should. Still at this point I feel it's Teal's to lose.

    And....
    Espinoza is the Jupiter of our solar system. Orbs of any shape and size seem to be defensless to his gravity right now. Things just crash or decide to orbit around him and he just sits there with his big spot and says hmmm... that all you got? You didn't even disrupt my clouds with that business.
     
  18. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So Beech you're saying we have both the king of the Greek AND Roman gods with Zues and Jupiter?
     
  19. Beech

    Beech Member

    Jul 26, 2001
    Kansas City
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Only if Pluto can be reinstated for what it truely is in this scenario....

    Korede Aiyegbusi
     
  20. vividox

    vividox Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 10, 2005
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
  21. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But there's no way to say the exact situation happens with Teal on the field. Here's an example off the top of my head, I doubt Sapong could score the two chances that Bunbury finished in Vancouver last year. You can't just compare chances in a vacuum.
     
  22. cjgwizard

    cjgwizard Member

    Apr 25, 2006
    LSP, section 129
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I see you are in midseason form...always gotta get your "but" in there. :D I should know better. I'll just say I favor CJ and leave it at that. :eek:
     
  23. Formulaic

    Formulaic Member

    Jul 6, 2011
    Kansas City
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe we should just play a 4-2-3-1 and let them both be in the middle on the attacking end.








    Yeah I know it won't happen. But perhaps could spring more pointless discussion.
     
  24. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have no offseason ;) the main reason I'm doing this is because I feel like everyone is piling on Teal I'm just trying to do a little counter balancing, as a whole I favor CJ, but the amount of venom towards Bunbury right now (not just here) is laughable
     
  25. kcscsupporter

    kcscsupporter Member+

    Apr 17, 2002
    D17
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i'd love for both to be on the field at the same time, but i think those instances will always be few and far between as long as we keep using a 4-3-3.
     

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