"How dare you not perform like Bayern?" The Other Teams News and Results Thread Vol. XI [R]

ForeverRed · Feb 22, 2012

odd1234 said: ↑

All things like what? The fact that he hasn't been able to keep things tight at the back? He is given the financial backing of the club, yet can barely keep his backline tight enough. Torres, Luiz, Cahill, Mata, Meireles?

He is one of the tactically naive coaches I have seen. Plays an utterly flamboyant back - line, really high. He has put some attacking credibility to the team, but at the expensive of the defensive department. Clearly, he hasn't really instilled the discipline needed to keep them relevant to anything.
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That's harsh. He doesn't have the players to play the style he prefers which in itself takes time, completely unrealistic to expect that to happen in a couple of months. On top of that you have an aging team in transition and players others have picked for him. We know from his time at Porto and his work with Mourinho in the past that he's capable. To use him as the scapegoat here is quite naive in my opinion.

odd1234 · Feb 22, 2012

ForeverRed said: ↑

That's harsh. He doesn't have the players to play the style he prefers which in itself takes time, completely unrealistic to expect that to happen in a couple of months. On top of that you have an aging team in transition and players others have picked for him. We know from his time at Porto and his work with Mourinho in the past that he's capable. To use him as the scapegoat here is quite naive in my opinion.
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Capable is one thing, coaching at the very top is another. It is harsh, I won't disagree. But certainly, he should adjust the transfer policy as well. He's had much needed backing in almost every department, besides with Torres because he was a dead deal.

You don't consider Luiz, Cahill and Meireles the kind of back line he would chose? He bought them. They're are very capable defensive minded players, but clearly lacking in discipline for one reason or another. I don't know what you're referring to here, the coach runs through tactics and regimens with the team so they understand the philosophy he is aiming for.

A failure to do this instills a lack of trust and character in the team. This is why Mourinho and Pep have done very well. They manage to bring players to appreciate the direction of the club. AVB has not.

What you're right about is the goals department, Drogba is old and Torres is off form - very hard to score under these circumstances.

ForeverRed · Feb 22, 2012

odd1234 said: ↑

Capable is one thing, coaching at the very top is another. It is harsh, I won't disagree. But certainly, he should adjust the transfer policy as well. He's had much needed backing in almost every department, besides with Torres because he was a dead deal.

You don't consider Luiz, Cahill and Meireles the kind of back line he would chose? He bought them. They're are very capable defensive minded players, but clearly lacking in discipline for one reason or another. I don't know what you're referring to here, the coach runs through tactics and regimens with the team so they understand the philosophy he is aiming for.

A failure to do this instills a lack of trust and character in the team. This is why Mourinho and Pep have done very well. They manage to bring players to appreciate the direction of the club. AVB has not.

What you're right about is the goals department, Drogba is old and Torres is off form - very hard to score under these circumstances.
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You can't turn an aging team in transition around in a matter of months, and you're certainly not going to get them to play the attacking style of football AvB prefers in that time period either. Things like that take time. When you implement an entirely new philosophy several things have to go your way, you have to have the right players (you can argue that Chelsea don't have that, especially not in midfield which is crucial), you have to have the right support (he doesn't, he is questioned by the owner and his own players), you need the players to buy into those methods (again, they don't, especially not the old guard) so what do you expect is going to happen? I just don't get how unrealistic football supporters can be sometimes. Did they honestly think he will come in under such tumultuous circumstances and replicate what he did in Portugal in the volatile pressure cooker that is England and the CL?

Matakos · Feb 22, 2012

ForeverRed said: ↑

You can't turn an aging team in transition around in a matter of months, and you're certainly not going to get them to play the attacking style of football AvB prefers in that time period either. Things like that take time. When you implement an entirely new philosophy several things have to go your way, you have to have the right players (you can argue that Chelsea don't have that, especially not in midfield which is crucial), you have to have the right support (he doesn't, he is questioned by the owner and his own players), you need the players to buy into those methods (again, they don't, especially not the old guard) so what do you expect is going to happen? I just don't get how unrealistic football supporters can be sometimes. Did they honestly think he will come in under such tumultuous circumstances and replicate what he did in Portugal in the volatile pressure cooker that is England and the CL?
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exactly...

KFofB · Feb 22, 2012

ForeverRed said: ↑

You can't turn an aging team in transition around in a matter of months, and you're certainly not going to get them to play the attacking style of football AvB prefers in that time period either. Things like that take time. When you implement an entirely new philosophy several things have to go your way, you have to have the right players (you can argue that Chelsea don't have that, especially not in midfield which is crucial), you have to have the right support (he doesn't, he is questioned by the owner and his own players), you need the players to buy into those methods (again, they don't, especially not the old guard) so what do you expect is going to happen? I just don't get how unrealistic football supporters can be sometimes. Did they honestly think he will come in under such tumultuous circumstances and replicate what he did in Portugal in the volatile pressure cooker that is England and the CL?
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I don't buy into any of this, really. AVB knew the circumstances and took the job...he's the one most guilty of being "unrealistic". He took the wrong approach, fell into a hole, and can't seem to climb out.

ForeverRed · Feb 22, 2012

KFofB said: ↑

I don't buy into any of this, really. AVB knew the circumstances and took the job...he's the one most guilty of being "unrealistic". He took the wrong approach, fell into a hole, and can't seem to climb out.
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I would hope the people who hired him knew what he was about, as did anyone who watched him at Porto but I guess not. You can't have it both ways in my opinion, if you're going to bring in a "konzepttrainer" you have to damn well make sure you support him properly.

But yea, fixing the mess at Chelsea may bit a bit over his head but then agian, I think that would be the case with most managers. Some of their players are just behaving like petulant entitled children.

KFofB · Feb 22, 2012

ForeverRed said: ↑

I would hope the people who hired him knew what he was about, as did anyone who watched him at Porto but I guess not. You can't have it both ways in my opinion, if you're going to bring in a "konzepttrainer" you have to damn well make sure you support him properly.

But yea, fixing the mess at Chelsea may bit a bit over his head but then agian, I think that would be the case with most managers. Some of their players are just behaving like petulant entitled children.
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you're quick to pigeonhole him as a "konzepttrainer", but he would never call himself that. Who would? We can all imagine the basic framework of his interview:

Roman wants to make a push with THIS team to win, probably both the EPL and the CL, but at least one of them. They've been close, but just can't t get over the hump. The concensus is that the talent is there. He will provide for a few transfers to fill in any holes that AVB identifies.

"So the question is, AVB, are you the right man for the job? Do you think this is achievable? What is your plan? Based on your assessment of our club, what do you think we would need? Can you translate your success at Porto? Do you need to adapt your style?" etc etc.

AVB wants the job and convinces Roman that He can do it, and so we go.

What was most decidedly not said by Roman is "we're embarking on a multi-year rebuilding process and would like you to oversee it." We know this because we know that Abramovich is putting pressure on AVB for immediate results.

I suspect that AVB was given substantially the support he was promised.

But he's not delivering.

|)ieRoten · Feb 22, 2012

ForeverRed said: ↑

That's harsh. He doesn't have the players to play the style he prefers which in itself takes time, completely unrealistic to expect that to happen in a couple of months. On top of that you have an aging team in transition and players others have picked for him. We know from his time at Porto and his work with Mourinho in the past that he's capable. To use him as the scapegoat here is quite naive in my opinion.
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It should have been obvious from the start. AVB is a one-track coach who was paired with mostly one-tack players - the only problem is they are different tracks.

This is a management failure in my view.

CanStriker · Feb 22, 2012

ForeverRed said: ↑

...you need the players to buy into those methods (again, they don't, especially not the old guard) so what do you expect is going to happen?
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Well, this part is definitely AVB's fault. Failure to get players to buy into a coach's system falls directly onto the shoulders of the coach, and no one else.

CanStriker · Feb 22, 2012

KFofB said: ↑

you're quick to pigeonhole him as a "konzepttrainer", but he would never call himself that. Who would? We can all imagine the basic framework of his interview:

Roman wants to make a push with THIS team to win, probably both the EPL and the CL, but at least one of them. They've been close, but just can't t get over the hump. The concensus is that the talent is there. He will provide for a few transfers to fill in any holes that AVB identifies.

"So the question is, AVB, are you the right man for the job? Do you think this is achievable? What is your plan? Based on your assessment of our club, what do you think we would need? Can you translate your success at Porto? Do you need to adapt your style?" etc etc.

AVB wants the job and convinces Roman that He can do it, and so we go.

What was most decidedly not said by Roman is "we're embarking on a multi-year rebuilding process and would like you to oversee it." We know this because we know that Abramovich is putting pressure on AVB for immediate results.

I suspect that AVB was given substantially the support he was promised.

But he's not delivering.
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Bingo.

AVB's also now repeatedly harping on about "my three year plan" for Chelsea.

In one of his latest interviews he pleaded with the owner/F.O. with regards to his three year plan: 'These words would be better coming from the top. They should support my plan publicly,' or something to that effect.

It not only left a clear message to everyone out there that AVB does NOT have the full support of the Chelsea higher ups (because his plea went unheard), but it also sounded rather pathetic to most viewers.

Philipp Lahm · Feb 22, 2012

At least Inter lost...

96Squig · Feb 23, 2012

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hiUuL5uTKc&ob=av3e"]Montell Jordan - This Is How We Do It - YouTube[/ame]

Raumdeuter · Feb 23, 2012

Congrats Hannover for standing up for the BL when lazy ass Bayern was shitting all over themselves.

Now Schalke complete the job

Lahmfan · Feb 23, 2012

congrat to hanover!!! and shalke !!

Philipp Lahm · Feb 23, 2012

Now how are things going with Italy this year...

CL: Milan, Napoli IN ... Bayern and Inter 50/50 ... Neverkusen out!
EL: Udinese, Hannover IN ... Schalke 90% IN, Lazio OUT!

Germany leading only 1 coefficient point this year.

nekkibasara · Feb 23, 2012

I wouldn't say that Napoli is 100% in. It is very possible for Chelsea to win 2-0 at home.

Dage · Feb 23, 2012

What a blunder by Höwedes

1:1 and eventually extra time. 3 more minutes.

Raumdeuter · Feb 23, 2012

Schalke just conceded a late equaliser

SirManchester · Feb 23, 2012

Schalke have been dreadful in Europe. Extremely lethargic and wasteful. And they've not even played proper opposition. Raul and Draxler really the only players who played proactively.

albert_mk87 · Feb 23, 2012

With one player down Plsen scored a goal they deserved the goal Schalke couldn't kill the game they looked uninterested

Lahmfan · Feb 23, 2012

i jinxed them.. didnt i

Lahmfan · Feb 23, 2012

nice Raul!!

SirManchester · Feb 23, 2012

YES. Hunterlaar. Now only Messi and Ronaldo are ahead of him in goals in Europe. Phenomenal.

Raumdeuter · Feb 23, 2012

Schalke leads again

Lahmfan · Feb 23, 2012

SirManchester said: ↑

YES. Hunterlaar. Now only Messi and Ronaldo are ahead of him in goals in Europe. Phenomenal.
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not Gomez?