@mets5orioles3: I also agree that baseball is fading in popularity. I have noticed that the majority of fans that attend baseball games are old and the majority of fans that attend soccer games are young. The demographics for soccer's continued growth are much more favorable.
Actually it's very much the American way - the rich(clubs) get richer and the rest depend on 'trickle down ' economics. US pro sports, with the salary caps, draft and all the 'competetive balance' safeguards could be considered more socialistic
Um ... betting on the NFL and soccer are illegal and legal in the same places Have you ever watched a soccer match? - because all of this is untrue. AFC East title. AFC Central title. AFC West title. AFC South title. AL East pennant. AL Central pennant. AL West pennant. SEC title. ACC title, Mountain West title. Pac-12 title. Winner of the BCS Bowl game. Winner of the Cotton Bowl game. Winner of the Poulon Weedeater bowl game.etc. etc. etc. Can't say the same for basketball. And until recently hockey. fyp they do have equal access. ESPN beams the NFL and many American sports around the world on their pay channels (Fox Soccer parallels, anyone?). And late night timing doesn't prevent more people in the "most populous timezone" from watching the EPL or Serie A as compared to the NBA or NFL.
The fact that Baseball is skewing older audience is not a myth. It is like CBS network in the US. It usually has the highest viewers, but skews older audience. The World Series has been averaging around 15 million (except for occasional spike). Among new generations of Americans, Baseball is not a priority. Many young Americans see the NFL, Soccer, Basketball, and Hockey as more appealing and exciting. Plus, let us not forget the gaming world (the video game industry has a mass appeal to the young America). Baseball's season is too long and and the game itself is simply two slow and too long. People just don't have the time to set and watch baseball for over 3 hours. NFL season is much shorter, and so most of the games matter (even if the games average around 3 hours). It could be argued that Baseball is not the "American pastime" as it proclaims to be. It is the same thing calling Dallas Cowboys "as America's team" which is not true anymore (based on the recent polls, Cowboys are one of most hated NFL teams). It doesn't mean that Baseball is going to die or go out of business. But, the market place is becoming more competitive, and Baseball market share will keep shrinking for reasons such as being perceived as outdated and and less appealing and sexy to young generation. Will Baseball do a major makeshift? Will it make the season much shorter and the games shorter? Who knows. But if i was betting based on current trends, i will say that in another 10 to 20 year cycle, Baseball will fall further in term's of its popularity, and we could see MLB losing some markets.
Total Value The most lucrative contracts in baseball history, by total value: 1. Alex Rodriguez, $275,000,000 (2008-17) 2. Albert Pujols, $254,000,000 (2012-21) 3. Alex Rodriguez, $252,000,000 (2001-10) 4. Derek Jeter, $189,000,000 (2001-10) 5. Joe Mauer, $184,000,000 (2011-18) 6. Mark Teixeira, $180,000,000 (2009-16) 7. CC Sabathia, $161,000,000 (2009-15) 8. Manny Ramirez, $160,000,000 (2001-08) . . Matt Kemp, $160,000,000 (2012-19) 10. Troy Tulowitzki, $157,750,000 (2011-20) 11. Adrian Gonzalez, $154,000,000 (2012-18) 12. Miguel Cabrera, $152,300,000 (2008-15) 13. Carl Crawford, $142,000,000 (2011-17) 14. Todd Helton, $141,500,000 (2003-11) 15. Johan Santana, $137,500,000 (2008-13) 16. Alfonso Soriano, $136,000,000 (2007-14) 17. Vernon Wells, $126,000,000 (2008-14) . . . Barry Zito, $126,000,000 (2007-13) . . . Jayson Werth, $126,000,000 (2011-17) 20. Ryan Howard, $125,000,000 (2012-16) 21. CC Sabathia, $122,000,000 (2012-16) 22. Mike Hampton, $121,000,000 (2001-08) 23. Jason Giambi, $120,000,000 (2002-08) . . . Matt Holliday, $120,000,000 (2010-16) . . . Cliff Lee, $120,000,000 (2011-15) 26. Carlos Beltran, $119,000,000 (2005-11) 27. Ken Griffey Jr., $116,500,000 (2000-08) 28. Jose Reyes, $106,000,000 (2012-17) 29. Kevin Brown, $105,000,000 (1999-2005) 30. Carlos Lee, $100,000,000 (2007-12) . . . Albert Pujols, $100,000,000 (2004-10) 32. Carlos Zambrano, $91,500,000 (2008-12) 33. Mike Piazza, $91,000,000 (1999-2005) . . . Barry Bonds, $90,000,000 (2002-06) . . . Torii Hunter, $90,000,000 (2008-12) . . . Chipper Jones, $90,000,000 (2001-06) . . . Scott Rolen, $90,000,000 (2003-10) . . . Ichiro Suzuki, $90,000,000 (2008-12) Average annual value The highest-paid players in baseball history, by average annual value: 1. Roger Clemens, $28,000,022 (2007) 2. Alex Rodriguez, $27,500,000 (2008-17) 3. Albert Pujols, $25,400,000 (2012-21) 4. Alex Rodriguez, $25,200,000 (2001-10) 5. Ryan Howard, $25,000,000 (2012-16) 6. CC Sabathia, $24,400,000 (2012-16) 7. Cliff Lee, $24,000,000 (2011-15) 8. Joe Mauer, $23,000,000 (2011-18) . . . CC Sabathia, $23,000,000 (2009-15) 10. Johan Santana, $22,916,667 (2008-13) 11. Manny Ramirez, $22,500,000 (2009-10) . . . Mark Teixeira, $22,500,000 (2009-16) 13. Adrian Gonzalez, $22,000,000 (2012-18) 14. Roger Clemens, $22,000,022 (2006) 15. Ryan Braun, $21,000,000 (2016-20) 16. Carl Crawford, $20,285,714 (2011-17) 17. Manny Ramirez, $20,000,000 (2001-08) . . . Roy Halladay, $20,000,000 (2011-13) . . . Matt Kemp, $20,000,000 (2012-19) 20. Miguel Cabrera, $19,037,500 (2008-15) 21. Derek Jeter, $18,900,000 (2001-10) 22. Carlos Zambrano, $18,300,000 (2008-12) 23. Andruw Jones, $18,100,000 (2008-09) 24. Barry Bonds, $18,000,000 (2002-06) . . . Roger Clemens, $18,000,000 (2005) . . . Ryan Howard, $18,000,000 (2009-11) . . . Torii Hunter, $18,000,000 (2008-12) . . . Sammy Sosa, $18,000,000 (2002-05) . . . Ichiro Suzuki, $18,000,000 (2008-12) . . . Vernon Wells, $18,000,000 (2008-14) . . . Jayson Werth, $18,000,000 (2007-14) . . . Barry Zito, $18,000,000 (2007-13) 33. Jose Reyes, $17,666,667 (2012-17) 34. Jake Peavy, $17,333,333 (2010-12) 35. Jason Giambi, $17,142,857 (2002-08) . . . Matt Holliday, $17,142,857 (2010-16) 37. Jeff Bagwell, $17,000,000 (2002-06) . . . Carlos Beltran, $17,000,000 (2005-11) . . . Carlos Delgado, $17,000,000 (2001-04) . . . Alfonso Soriano, $17,000,000 (2007-14) . . . Jered Weaver, $17,000,000 (2012-16) I believe the bolded covers all of MLS salaries in 2011. If not add another player or two from the list. Lets get real folks.
Sportsfan...Let's get the facts right my friend... Baseball was created in this country, and you expect to see that from MLB. The point is that baseball's relevancy in pop culture might not be as relevant in 10-20 years time frame. World Series Ratings speak volume..The drop in World Series rating is the worst among major sports. NHL (Stanley Cup) average seems to be capped below 10 million. Stanley Cup usually averages around 6-8 million. Versus averages around 300K or so for it's NHL games. Hockey has a young Demo. NBA playoffs, regular season games have seen turn-around in the last 2 years or so. NBA was seeing a downtrend for a while after the Michael Jackson era, but the ratings have improved again. I don't know if this shorten season is going to affect the ratings down the road, and whether the ratings will fall due to the lock-out. NFL is the king, and it will stay that way for a long time The point i have made is that World Series will average about 15 million (give or take) with occasional spike. It is because people have more choices, people not caring, and perhaps the game is not as appealing unless your local team is not playing or the you don't have brand names like the Yankees or Red Sox. The World Series rating averages have fallen as low around 11-12 million mark the last few year, with occasional World Series game approaching the 20 million threshold. How will the ratings be in 10 or 20 years? Based on the current trends, we can assume that the World Series ratings will be around 15 million or even falling as low as 11-12 million. Once again, we will see an occasional spike due to match-ups and competitive series. The young Demo for Soccer is indicative of where the game might be in another 10-20 years. I don't see MLS CUP Final reaching the threshold of 10 million anytime. MLS is not the premier club destination for soccer at this time. But, who know in another 20 years or so MLS could be in the TOP 10 or TOP 5. If that happens, we assume the ratings for the playoffs and the Final will increase. The biggest trend for soccer is in the international arena. World Cup ratings will continue to go higher, and so will the European Championship. EPL's games will see more exposure on network television, and the UEFA Champions League ratings should grow (especially in knock-out round), leading to the Final. The US games qualifying games against the likes of Mexico should see record breaking audience going forward, and other key opponents in the final round. In summary, there is more uptick for Soccer as a whole in the years to come. MLS value will increase, and so well the salary cup. In decades to come, the number 2 spot to number 4 spot is for grabs. The sports with the most young Demo (and appeal to young generation) will grab the no.2 spot. (it could be Basketball, Soccer, Hockey). If i was betting, i will say it will be between Basketball or Soccer at the expense of Baseball. #1 NFL # 2 Baskeball or Soccer # 4 Baseball #5 Hockey
You sound completely delusional and keep cherry picking data to help build whatever you are spewing. It's nothing personal. Not at all, but saying Basketball and Soccer in 20 years will be competing for the 2nd sports spot behind Football in the US is insane. Utterly nuts. There is a good chance Basketball will be 2nd by then. But Baseball will be third. And the NHL will be 4th. Soccer might be 5th by then above Nascar, Golf, and whatever else comes about or is there. But to think Soccer will compete for 2nd in 20 years is crazy talk. In 2010 the top 10 MLB teams in RADIO AUDIENCE PER GAME AVERAGED: 2,120,000 million listeners(not viewers per game) That is all that needs to be said. MLB has lost national ratings because attendance has gone up and local radio and tv ratings have sky rocketed. Baseball is more popular than ever. By the time the world series comes around folks are burnt out. It's not 1981 when you might get to see 25 games a year on tv and you watch the WS. Now you get every local game. Of course national ratings plummet. MLS has no local radio audience anywhere, nearly no national audience, nearly no local tv audience. EPL has a tiny national tv audience and no local audience at all. Let's get real bro.
It is absurd to argue about what might happen in 20 years. No one could have imagined 20 years ago that a couple of TV networks would pay more 1 billion dollars to broadcast the World Cup in the United States.
First of all, Basketball is already the #2 sport. NBA finals pretty much destroy the world series in ratings. Baseball is only popular with the older generation. The 7 am EPL games almost get higher ratings (and sometimes do) in the 18-49 demographic than prime time baseball games on ESPN. Even the MLS all star game on ESPN2 beat out the Yankee's game that was going on at the same time on ESPN1. The fact that no baseball game can crack 20 million viewers is telling. You can almost see Baseball's slow demise just by watching games. Look at the people in the stands, they are mostly older people. Vast contrast compared to other sports. I think the mainstream media makes Baseball appear more popular than it actually is. If an EPL game got 500K viewers and a MLB game got 500K viewers, the MLB game would still get 10x more highlights on sports shows despite equal amounts of people caring for each game. It's kinda like congress. They run the show even though the general population doesn't follow their line of thinking. Congress is behind the times. Now I am not saying Baseball will completely die. No sport completely dies. But I am quite sure it will never surpass Basketball or Football again. They are gonna have to work some miracles (not happening) to keep it as the #3 sport for the next 20 years. The only sport that has the capability of taking the #3 spot is soccer for many reasons which i'll post later. Also the same reasons why Hockey will never get larger than it currently is. It's mostly just the nature of the sport and it's simplicity where soccer has an advantage. to be continued.....
unrelated to the discussion, but I found some NHL tv ratings if you want to compare. http://thevoiceoftv.com/nielsen-tv-ratings/nhl-on-versus-ratings-november-28-december-14-2011/ Honestly, NHL ratings suck. People give MLS ratings a lot of criticism but they really aren't that far off the NHL ratings. If NBC could air EPL games in prime time, they would get higher ratings than the NHL.
TWIX... The two EPL games shown live on FOX could this year could be another watershed moment. I will not rule out the fact that FOX will end-up airing the ManU vs Mancity on April 28th on the main channel (if Fox has the right for that game, otherwise ESPN2 will get the game)...There is no way FOX will put that game on Fox Soccer Channel. The ramification of that game could be huge for EPL standings and great tv ratings. Sportsfan brought up the issue of Radio(in terms of Baseball)...Radio has become (AM/FM) dying entity, only attracting an older demographic who might listen to AM or FM. Baseball audience is growing old, and it will continue to do so. Satellite Radio seems to have a hard time penetrating the market because most people don't see the value in paying for radio...(especially in bad economy...btw, I have satellite radio, but i was able to get it for 6 months for $25 or something)...I will keep it if they give me a good deal which i know they will. They have a lot of turnover in terms of subscription. The fact that the World Series ratings average has dropped to 15 million (give or take) is indicative of how far the ratings have dropped. No one is arguing that Baseball is going out business. But, it will fall further in terms of it's popularity in major sports. NASCAR (with all due respect, i don't see in terms of tv sport or team sport). But, NASCAR ratings and attendance have fallen in the last few years (bad economy), and perhaps it peaked in terms of it's popularity. Basketball golden era was the Michael Jordan era...Basketball has reversed it's rating decline the last two or three years, and the positive trend should continue. As i said before, the lock-out could have some impact on the tv ratings. Attendance could be a major issue for Basketball as some cities are having some major issues getting people to come to the arena.
NBC might be airing some MLS games during the Olympics (possibly 2-4 games) for maximum exposure on the mothership channel. They are still working on the US soccer games schedule, but the likely scenario would be matches against well-known teams.
The popularity of single isolated events like the World Cup are tough to predict, but changes in general day-to-day preferences are obviously a lot more gradual. For instance, if you told me that in 20 years the FIFA Club World Cup would be a pretty big deal in the USA I would be a bit surprised, but would not totally dismiss the possibility! But notice that despite baseball declining in popularity for 20 years, at best basketball went from being slightly behind baseball's popularity in 1992 to barely ahead of it in 2012. Needless to say these changes are extremely gradual. So, yes, you do have to be mad to think soccer will be #2 in 2032. How many times can an argument that has been debunked 82 thousand times be repeated? Why would a Cardinals fan living in St Louis watch a Yankees game in August, when St Louis played 6 matches on TV that same week? Seriously you don't see the difference between a weekly match involving everyone's favorite team versus a random out-of-market match involving teams that play every night?
Soccer is growing and steadily gaining in popularity in the United States. This drives the haters crazy as witnessed by some of the silly postings in this thread.
However, there are many flavors of "soccer" on TV in the U.S. "Soccer" on TV in the U.S. is turning into a mirror image of college basketball, driven by big events and brand name teams. Duke vs North Carolina college basketball will sell on any network (remember that ESPN, Inc. deliberately scheduled that one for ESPN2 in 1994,) but HBCU teams from the MEAC or SWAC will draw at best an 0.1% rating on ESPNU. Only a handful of EPL clubs sell on English-language TV in the U.S., with Man Utd being the biggest brand. FOX will have no trouble drawing a 1.5% rating for Arsenal vs Man Utd and Chelsea vs Man Utd in the next few weeks. MLS still doesn't sell, not even during the playoffs. The 2011 Cup final drew a pathetic 0.7% household rating on ESPN (which was an improvement over the 0.4% household rating in 2010.) The MLS Cup final hasn't cracked the 1.0% household barrier in years. == The TV audience for soccer in the U.S. is similar to the audiences in much of Asia: they watch the big brand names play big games, but tune out otherwise.
You gotta get people familiar with the big name teams first before you start showing more of the little teams. Soccer tv ratings follow a trickle down philosophy. It starts with the World cup (and maybe some other big international tournaments). Then eventually the viewer finds out about Euro club competition, hence why the EPL has vastly increased in popularity over the past few years. Then finally, I am guessing MLS will be the next step after the Euro club competition. That's how it happened to me and many other people I know. It starts with the world cup, and then trickles down to MLS which is at the bottom. MLS ratings are flat right now, but I think 5-6 years from now, it will receive the same growth rate EPL is currently receiving right now. Stage 1- International competitions/World Cup Stage 2- European club competitions/EPL Stage 3- MLS/Domestic soccer most new soccer viewers are probably in between stage 1 and 2 with most still being closer to stage 1. Each world cup kinda creates a new pool of viewers which then the networks can try to siphon off to watch Euro club competition. After a while, MLS can do the same to those watching Euro club competition. Why would they switch to MLS, because watching overseas clubs after a while gets dull and people will want to watch their own teams here in the USA, regardless of quality of play. Kinda hard to support overseas teams when you have no connection to them whatsoever. After couple of years of watching EPL, you come to realize this (for the American viewer). Why the **** do I care for Liverpool, or Chelsea, etc...I live in LA and have never been to England in my life.
The problem with the last point (in bold) is that, if someone lives in Miami, or Detroit, or Phoenix, what connection do they have to teams in DC, Chicago, LA, etc.? If you live in an MLS market, there's a connection, but we're talking only 16 teams in 15 cities (in the US). The rest of the country has to watch MLS on TV, and when compared to other Euro and S. American leagues shown on TV, people make their choices based on quality, and so that's why EPL gets better ratings than MLS. You're assuming that just because You and some of your friends got bored of Euro club competition that EVERYONE in the US will get bored of it who's a soccer fan, and that's just bad logic. MLS has a niche within a niche of soccer fans, and is doing fine with that, but only a dramatic improvement in the quality of the MLS game will bring a dramatic rise in attendance and TV ratings, not blind patriotism ("You should like MLS because it's OUR league").
Dying is a bit too strong of a word. How about slowly fading. I don't think radio is a good indicator of a sports popularity. We can all agree that there is very little on the radio worth listening to nowadays. Baseball is an easy thing for a (very) casual fan to listen in to while driving home from work. It beats listening to a bat chit crazy right winger or left winger spewing there biased opinions. And it beats listening to pretty much any of the music on the radio. I know many people who will listen to the game on the radio coming home from work or wherever, but when they get home they don't tune into the game. They were simply listening to the game because they didn't have any other options... This is just an observation I've made in my small sample of experience. Participation is on the decline for baseball. Why is everyone ignoring this point? And in countries like Venezuela and Japan, where Baseball has been king. soccer is creeping up on baseball in these countries. So while my comment about baseball dying out with this old generation is clearly an exaggeration. It still holds some truth... Still curious why a baseball fan who clearly dislikes soccer is posting on a soccer forum...Reeks of insecurity...
I'd imagine they tune in, in much larger numbers in asia for soccer than here in the US, no? As I've heard in south asia especially, EPL and La Liga are huge.
Well, the nature of baseball makes it nearly impossible to watch every game in its entirety unless you're a retired widow with lots of time on your hands and little to no family obligations in the evening. Whereas a soccer fan can watch every match in its entirety (for 1 team at least) and still not be handed any divorce papers to sign mid-way through the season. It's what makes all these ratings comparisons difficult. Sometimes you just have to step away from the ratings and look around you. And that will lead to the conclusion that baseball isn't going anywhere anytime soon. It totally annihilates soccer in every neighborhood of the country. The ratings decrease for baseball in the 18-49 demographic is likely just do to the fact that people with full-time jobs and a family don't have time to watch 20 hours of baseball per week.