Slight topic redirect: as of Sunday night, 12/11, it looks like the Magic will trade Dwight Howard at some point in the next few months, if not before the end of the year. Although I hope the Magic can pull themselves together with whatever they get in the trade, it bears mentioning that the Magic are about to fall into a deep hole popularity and PR wise, having lost a second all-star center, but this time doing so after having the city build them a nearly half billion dollar stadium. Aside from the actual facts---the team paid somewhere around one tenth of the cost of the stadium; they (presumably) didn't/haven't nickel and dimed their all-star causing him to want to leave---it's possible the Magic get smashed around for a while in the perception-is-reality environment of the court of public opinion (excuse the mixed metaphors). But here's the thing: if the city's sense of its own prestige appears to be threatened by the falling-dominoes scenario in which their only top-flight pro sports franchise begins to implode and could in some extreme case wind up being sold by the present owners to new owners eager to march the team out of town as soon as possible (despite contractual agreements with the city, etc.), what opportunities could that open up to a minor-league soccer team coming off a very successful first season? What might that mean for a short-team deal re: the Citrus Bowl, and a longer term deal (likely only for real estate and not for budget to construct) for getting a SSS built in the most advantageous location for the soccer team to succeed, including becoming an MLS expansion franchise, thereby giving the city a replacement top-flight pro sports franchise if the Magic (again, hypothetically) were sold and relocated?
The team will not be "marched out of town". The NBA will not allow one of its grandest cathedrals to sit vacant; they'd probably be sued if it tried, anyway. But the problems the Magic truly face long-term are the general problems of the NBA itself. They really screwed up with the latest CBA, and it's becoming obvious to many that nothing has changed. In fact, game-wise, it might have gotten worse. The Magic didn't go away when Shaq left town, and then it was a bigger risk. Before 9/11 happened, RVD was doing some serious sabre-rattling about shipping out. They will survive Dwight leaving, too. The NBA as a whole is at much bigger risk than the Magic individually. But even in that case, there is plenty of opportunity for Orlando City. We need a major-league summer sport. We could've had it a long time ago if Tavistock had some balls (pun intended). As long as the team continues to cultivate what they have planted in the city, we will make MLS take notice.
Interesting article about Orlando and its MLS aspirations. http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2011/12/orlando-causing-shakeup-in-soccers-minor-leagues/
No matter what NASL honks want to tell you, all the teams that came up the minor-league development way cut their teeth in the USL. And with no pro/rel, it doesn't matter if Orlando City goes through NASL before MLS. All that matters is showing what the fan base can do. Though I personally would love to see them go that way.
What you have to remember is that Seattle had no team (basically) from 1984-1993 (FC Seattle/Storm from 1985-1990 in the WSL and the nascent ASPL weren't making an impact). Portland had no team from 1983-2000 (again, FC Portland in the primordial soup days 1985-1990). And Vancouver has "Since 1974" on their collars because "Since 1974, Except for 1985, And From 1986-2000 We Were Called Something Else" wouldn't fit. Except for, you know, the gaps there. And it hasn't been 40 years of growth, it's been 37, 36 and 37 years since those teams started and they sure as hell weren't growing in a straight-line way. Oh, you do love to exaggerate. Seattle's actual average from 1994-2008? 3,031. 1994 - 6,347 1995 - 4,571 1996 - 3,750 1997 - 2,873 1998 - 2,902 1999 - 2,243 2000 - 2,143 2001 - 1,885 2002 - 4,087 2003 - 3,357 2004 - 2,874 2005 - 2,885 2006 - 3,693 2007 - 3,396 2008 - 3,386 Vancouver didn't average 6k in D2, they averaged 4,639 (which was still a large percent of capacity - they did well, consistently) from 1994 - 2010. 1994 - 4,742 1995 - 4,492 1996 - 4,068 1997 - 3,558 1998 - 4,185 1999 - 4,559 2000 - 3,959 2001 - 5,542 2002 - 3,769 2003 - 4,292 2004 - 4,833 2005 - 5,086 2006 - 5,085 2007 - 5,162 2008 - 4,999 2009 - 5,312 2010 - 5,149 And Portland actually did average 7k (7,081) in USL/USSFD2, thanks to really coming on strong at the end of their D2 run. 2001- 5,974 2002- 6,261 2003- 5,871 2004- 5,281 2005- 5,553 2006- 5,575 2007- 6,794 2008- 8,567 2009- 9,734 2010-10,727 So, the combined totals of the three teams? 4,729 average. Yeah, without that huge influx of people who drive 200+ miles round trip all the time, the Rays might finish next-to-last in the majors in attendance or something. And the Mutiny would have struggled to draw, too. That's also why when the Rays actually played three games in Orlando, three regular-season games (May 15-17, 2007), they didn't fill a 9,500-seat stadium in two of the three games (drawing 8,443, 8,839 and 9,635). The three-game set against Toronto in Orlando April 22-24, 2008 drew an announced 8,269, 8,989 and 9,540. So, they can max out a 9,500 seat stadium on Sundays, which is great if that's the only day you play. And, oh, by the way, the Rays haven't been back to Orlando since and the Rays' AA-ball team broke its ten-year lease at Disney after four years and bolted town, having never finished higher than eighth in the Southern League in average attendance. But, hey, Buddy Dyer says they'd be better off in Orlando than in St. Pete, which I wouldn't exactly doubt (nor would I expect a mayor to say anything else), but I don't see how they'd do better in Orlando than they would in Tampa. So there you go. Then again, you were the one who said FC Tampa Bay was going to be "huge" in St. Pete, so maybe you just have a different definition of "huge" than other people.
The Rowdies will be huge. and how nice of you to omit the early years: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Sounders_(1974–1983) or are you talking only minor league? that's right when A-league and USL took over the shit hit the fan with attendance. 1994 APSL - 6,347 1995 A-league - 4,571 as for Vancouver they played in a 6k capacity stadium.
We're so far from the "glory years" they don't even matter anymore. And you can't blame the league for Seattle's 1994-to-1995 drop. League-wide attendance only fell 131 per game to 3347 in 1995, which in the grand scheme of things isn't that much. And it 1996 it jumped to 4946 per game. Take out Rochester, and it was still up to 3750 per game.
I know but USL better watch out with the over-expansion every year. In hindsight, it became obvious that the NASL had overexpanded. This brought teams into the league which were not financially solvent.
ESPN: Further stalemate for NYC2 could be to Orlando City's benefit Sorry Whitestar, even ESPN is taking notice.
Orlando might benefit only in the fact that they would be allowed in first. But as I've stated before, I think MLS would readily allow both teams in if both are ready.
It's funny because you talk like ORL is the only other market: http://aol.sportingnews.com/soccer/...san-antonio-join-fight-for-mls-expansion-team Garber has said there is no timetable for adding a 20th club. Still, New York is Plan A and Garber has said the league would only consider alternative cities should a soccer-only stadium in NYC become an impossibility. So where is the soccer-only stadium located in Orlando?
ESPN talked like they were the only other market. They didn't mention anybody else. And until you come up with a soccer-only stadium, you have no right to talk about our lack of one.
Hell, is there any stadium available for NYC2 at the moment? If Red Bull Arena is out, then Meadowlands should be out. After all, NYC2 is supposed to be in the city, not in Jersey. I would assume then Hofstra would be out as well. So are there any suitable, useable, and realistic venues currently available in NYC? At least Orlando has the Shitrus Bowl as an option until a SSS can be built.
That's one of the hold-ups with NYC2. There isn't a suitable SSS location yet. There are a couple prospective locations, but there's no word if the possible locales even want an SSS possibly built there. With the Wilpons ruled out of participating, that makes Flushing Meadows/old Shea that much more difficult if not impossible. It might even eliminate Citi Field as a possible temp location while one is built. This is supposed to be the city's team specifically. Temporarily holding games in New Jersey is out of the question. And there are hold-ups with the Cosmos specifically which you can read all about in their section. In recent months, Phil has talked about building an SSS, and mentioned working with city and county. (He hasn't mentioned getting them to pay for it; they'd have to talk with the government even if it were privately-financed since location and logistics would also be involved.) We'll see where that goes. But for now the Citrus Bowl, even with it being as old as it is, still has distinct advantages for soccer, not the least of which are pitch dimension. And location doesn't turn people off from attending the major bowl games. The Champs Sports Bowl completely sold out this year (FSU v. Notre Dame), and they have 30 years of giant bowl game logistics experience. So doing 20k MLS games, if we do make it that far, will be nothing for them.
As a New Yorker myself, I can say that a stadium location is the one and only holdup that NYC2 really has. That itself is a MAJOR problem, of course, but if that were to get done, getting plenty of really rich investors on board would be very easy. But as I said before, this is not a choice between one city or another. If both NYC2 and Orlando are ready, then both will be allowed in. Garber's previous comments about sticking with 20 teams have been made specifically to point out that the league doesn't need to expand. They won't accept a team if it doesn't comply with all of its strict requirements (and those requirements have gotten stricter every year).
Along with Orlando and NY2 you can throw either Detroit (Silverdome) or Las Vegas (new Henderson stadium) into the mix, therefore you can very easily imagine expansion to be capped at 22 and not at 20.
Don't forget about Minneapolis and Atlanta, both of which are looking to use MLS to get new NFL stadiums. Wylf and Blank both want to model their new stadium after Century-Link with the ability to easily host NFL, International friendlies, and MLS without looking empty. So that is 24. There is also San Antonio with the Spurs' owners thinking about MLS. Not to mention constant interest in St Louis, Miami, and Tampa. Granted, there are ownership & stadium issues with those three. Still, I have a hard time seeing MLS shutting all of these cities out for the long term.
I agree their are several cities which could support D-1 MLS soccer, but many of them are going to have to settle for D-2. May that be the NASL or perhaps we will see the birth of MLS-2. However I have several reasons I see a cap of current expansion at 22 and not 20 teams. We may see a final 24 team league someday, but I don't believe we will see this till sometime in the the next decade. This is in my opinion only, I have nothing hard behind it other than rumor. Therefore here is my scenario: 1) As much as you like it or not NY2 is going to happen. But, it is not going to happen till a SSS is built in the city. And it is not going to happen as soon as the "Don would like, with the politics of NYC. Therefore this will delay NY2 making them the 21st franchise in 2016. 2) Once league offical realize that it is taking longer than they want they will move on to "Plan B". This means Orlando in 2014 making them the 20th franchise. 3) Not wanting to operate with a odd number of teams for many reasons, this brings us to the finale. This is going to be very very interesting, many factors are going to come into play with this selection. Their are many deserving possibilities here, Detroit, Las Vegas, Atlanta, Minneapolis, St. Louis among others. Other factors will include travel distant, regional rivals and the biggest wild card of all the "Beckham Factor". I believe they will want a regional rival for Orlando is this one. I believe this will be the Beckham franchise, we have heard so much about in recent times. For this reasons and understanding they want to pair him with a deep pocket owner and a soccer ready stadium in hand, which they have been courting for several years. So, for this I believe in, my opinion only, and having read the rumored short list of Mr. Beckham, is Arthur Blank, provided he gets his new Falcons stadium is built. This makes Atlanta the 22nd franchise in 2016. If he doesn't get his stadium built, otherwise this could end up being Las Vegas provided the Henderson Stadium gets built. Other than that your guess on the 22nd franchise is as good as mine.
I'm so tired of hearing this argument from you. It stupid, pathetic, and grasping at straws. Have you ever looked at the leagues those teams were in? If women's fast pitch softball, indoor soccer, and those other leagues were taking off in this country and a massive success everywhere except Orlando you might have a point. Otherwise its just a lame argument and pretty ironic coming from a supporter from the city that already lost a MLS team. How about Seattle losing their NBA team? Must mean the Sounders have it all wrong up there, too.
I hope you know that was taken from a article, and I listened to a radio-show where they were discussing USL-Pro and no way any team is ready for MLS, maybe Orlando to NASL yes. Orlando needs SSS. All Things Footy http://www.rslsoapbox.com/2011/1/25/...hy-not-part-ii
First, how would I know that it was taken from an 'article'? You've never cited an 'article' all the times you've made that same stupid argument. This isn't the first time, nor do I doubt it will be the last time. Second, what the heck does it matter? It's still a stupid argument. You stealing it and reproducing it without citing the source to try and prove a point doesn't mean its any less stupid. If anything saying 'well, I got it from someone else' somehow makes it all look even more stupid since you apparently couldn't stop and say 'well, that's kind of a lame argument to make'. Finally, a radio show? And they were talking as if their opinion mattered at all? Who freaking cares. Everyone has an agenda here. You have made it clear for over a year that you wanted Orlando to fail at the minor league level. That didn't happen. Orlando won as a team, won in PR, and won in attendance and support. Now you're just trying to argue and argue and argue that Orlando will never get to MLS. Why? Who knows. I have no idea why it would even matter to some FCTB/Rowdy/whatever fan. Just hurt that in only a year this team and its supporters are doing more than you have? Still angry your MLS team was taken away and it wasn't your fault? Get over it. Leave us alone and support your team over there.
Exactly.... Tampa Bay has seen it's share of sports teams come and go. Besides the origianal NASL Rowdies and MLS Muntiy, there were (among others): Tampa Bay Tritons - Roller Hockey International Tampa Bay Bandits - United States Football League Tampa Bay Terror - National Professional Soccer League Tampa Bay Force - Women's American Football League Tampa Bay Windjammers - United States Basketball League Tampa Bay Cyclones - United Soccer League (packed up and moved to Jacksonville)
That's old news. I still believe the number is 22 not 20, before there is a slowdown in expansion. They are not going to ignore the southeast, they need the national footprint to maintain their television contract with NBC, plus they still have the issues with Mr. Beckham's contract. Look for Orlando (USL Promotion), NYC (the Cosmos) and Atlanta (Beckham's team), to join MLS before all is said and done.