Carling Cup Quarter Final: November 29, 2011 - Chelsea FC v. Liverpool FC [R]

That is very sad.

Next game away to Newcastle , hope the lads are up for it.

 

Very disappointed with the result and the team's performance yesterday. uhhh how many times do i have to say that. The movement on this team is embarrassing. Torres is even more embarrassing. Our final third play is just SO SLOW and ridiculously predictable that i feel like ripping my hair out when watching them play. There is no "go at" the defense runs, no interchanging cuts or overlaps. What happened? Honestly

I'd have to agree with some folks that its honestly time to drop the dead wood and rejuvenate this squad. Betrend was impressive and so was Oriol, the youngings need to get more time on the field since they seem hungry. The other folks just aren't doing it anymore. Lukaku.....man he is a snail out on the field and so odd when on the ball. he definitely needs a loan deal to get used to the fast pace and physicality of this league.

 

AVB also said it was a 4-4-2 and they will be reverting to 4-3-3 against Newcastle.

 

Except that football isn't football. If that were the case, Mateja Kezman would have been a massive success at the Bridge. Tons of managers have had success in a smaller environment and then flopped on the big stage, or even flopped in a different country - Guus's Betis teams were TERRIBLE, and he's our supposed savior.
The issue isn't AVB's tactics and knowledge disappearing, it's the lack of sample size (he's been a manager at the highest levels for less than two years!!) and that the tactics and knowledge are at a much higher level than in Portugal. What works there may not work here. Thus far, it's not working.

 

I do not know the exact role he had under Jose but you have to factor in the number of years he had under him. I cannot say that he lacks knowledge. I agree he has not been perfect till now but I attribute some of the blame to the players too. Do you think this line up will not be able to defeat QPR or Genk? There is only so much a manager can do. Maybe his flaw is lack of motivation.

 

Start cleaning house in January. AVB likely rues the chances he had to nab talent like Falcao and other young, dynamic talent. Instead he delayed to evaluate the old guard and it was too late, save for Mata. I think it's obvious now and it's time to move.

 

33 goals allowed in the league in 2010-11 season. Tied with Man City with least goals allowed in the league. That's only 1 more goal allowed then our title winning 09-10 season.

Compare that number with this season where if we continue with our current rate we'll concede around 50.

 

I haven't claimed that I know AVB is a bad coach. I think unless we're languishing in midtable with no hope for a CL place by January, he should be given at least a year. But I'm also not blinded by one great season at Porto because that means he'll be able to replicate it anywhere. That's not how sports work.

 

Fair enough. I really want AVB to succeed. I believe he is really intelligent and is one for the future but is just not getting the rub of the green and is still a little raw in managerial terms. Hopefully things will turn around.

 

Don't feel bad, same thing happened to me about a week ago.

But you're also disregarding the fact that he's been involved in coaching since the age of 16, half of his life. And spent 3 years at this club. It's not like he's clueless. He was brought in to change how we play, and that's what he's trying to do. I would think if his objective was to just simply win, then he would be doing things differently.

 

None of that matters if we don't win. And we're not winning.

 

As far as the Torres thing goes, we can all agree that his confidence is shot, he is lacking focus and the drive to get the job done. Not to mention the pressure all around him to perform from the media, fans, and coaches. So why not send him to Portland or anywhere else for some intense 1-1 focused training? like how Fergie did with Rooney during his bad spell and scandals in the press? A week or more of intense training, maybe psychological help, and getting away from all the B.S. at Chelsea would probably do him some hell of good. Who knows? he just might come back and recover his form like Rooney did and tear it up the second half of the season. IDK, just my .02 cents

 

I know results matter , but some long term foresight is vitally important. This season I would just be happy with a top 4 finish , in doing so AVB can develop this club for the long term. He was playing beautiful football last season , and winning , not even winning , but literally dominating matches. Im not only talking about the Portuguese league , but in Europe as well. Give the man some time , like more then the 20 games he has managed , to get his philosophy across. We have been crying out for a change since Mourinho left . Alot of this squad is still Mourinhos. Let AVB put his identity into it. We have seen it with Mata and Oriol , and they have been some of the better performers lately , with Mata carrying this team in the creative devision. Add a couple more AVB players and hopefully we are on the way. This revolving door policy of managers at the club is a joke. We paid good money for AVB , at least give him some f*cking time.

I think alot of the blame should go to the players , some of the older timers out there should really look at themselves and their positions within the first 11/club.

 

This could work or backfire even more... but personally its a great idea. Dude needs to find himself first before he can even look for where is game went. Maybe an outing like this would do him some much needed good.

 

So when the players aren't performing for Carlo, it's clearly his fault and he has run out of ideas. But when AVB is getting even worse results with more players, it's clearly the players' fault. Right.

 

Wrong, it's the Front Office fault. Who runs this club

 

not yet entirely, since its two different coaches and mainly the same players except for 2-3, yet they are still playing like they did last year. Its pretty obvious the players are the problem now. Sorry to see a coach get fired and new one to come in only to see the same results.

the older players have played too big of a part in this team the last few years and need a reality check. They are not the backbone any longer but the dead weight that is keeping us underwater. Seeing Ryan, Mata, Rams, Sturridge and even Mierles play showed me that energy and movement i once saw within this team. The veterans of this team, if they care about the club need to realize they are not cutting it any longer. Thus the reasoning of Anelka, DD, Kalou and Alex all excepting departure sooner then later.

 

Worse then last year I would say. Well slightly better in offense due to Mata, but significantly worse defensively.

My theory is that AVBs high line tactics are good for a team that's very dominant in their league, like Porto was, because the weaker teams get pressed into oblivion and don't have enough technique to play their strikers in right for counter attacks. Unfortunately he's now in charge of a team that's not nearly as dominant in the domestic league, so his "lets display our dominance by having a high line and making our full backs charge up the field" strategy is biting him on the ass because now the opposition players are good enough to exploit the open spaces on counter attacks. We've done quite well in our matches against obviously weaker opposition this season (QPR result was an aberration), but the bigger teams have all handily defeated us. I'm expecting more of the same in our match against Man City.

 

I guess I agree a little about the dominance of teams but I dont think highlines work in England due to the speed of the game. A good quick counterattacking side like Utd/Spurs can be in your goal in a matter of seconds. We dont have the players (speed) for it and the game moves too quickly here in the Prem. I wish WISH AVB would reconsider his defensive strategies (or what little he has of them).

 

Nice, I had to bring this up. You were saying that its was AVB's fault. Partially, but Don Carlo has another idea. I have to agree w/ Don Carlo on this one. I think he knew the deal when he was the gaffer, but probably figured he was going to get paid no matter what happened. He isn't called Da Blue Don for nothing

 

AVB has been a coach since the age of 16, training under Sir Bobby Robson and assistant to Jose Mourinho. These great managers would not keep AVB around if he didn't know his tactics.

AVBs tactics and system of play are fine, he just doesn't have enough of the right type of players to implement them properly, the old guard is still set on playing Mourinho style.

Which leads to the questiodn why doesnt AVB play a system that suits the players he does have. His stubborness while admirable is not doing our results any favors. I will give him more time and see who comes in in January.

The high defensive line works fine, just not with David Luiz always getting caught out of position, kid needs to improve his concentration.

 

1. I don't care who AVB has been a coach under. Many assistants to big managers have failed. Quieroz and Kidd were disasters, for instance. And yet both did quite well under SAF. There are other examples.
2. What does "AVB's tactics are fine" mean? If I come up with tactics they'd be fine too, but his tactics as implemented in this side aren't fine.
3. If he doesn't have enough players to play one formation, play another!
4. Why, why, why is stubbornness admirable?
5. If he needs to turn over our entire squad to get his system to work, hiring him was monumentally stupid.
6. Our defensive problems have not been primarily Luiz's fault.

 

Difference is, like I have brought up before, AVB has already proven himself a winner.

It means he knows what he's doing and he has a vision he is aiming to achieve

agreed

It shows he has a goal and vision he is working to achieve with this team in the long run, the only way to improve in the system is to keep playing in the system even though it is not bringing immediate results, he is working for something long term and sticking to his guns. I find that admirable.

um, the reason Roman hired him was to help build a younger squad with an attacking vision, and evaluate who should stay on and who should be sold on....

I agree