Stunned in STL. Because of kids & work I can't get over to see many games lately...Used to see five or six college games a year (Billikens, Clemson, So. Carolina, So. Carolina at Spartanburg, Furman, Charlotte & several College Cups, depending upon where I was living)...I'm in the STL area now and I usually get to one SLU game a season and when I saw the schedule at the beginning of the year I expected to see the Billikens in the conference tourney played on their home field. Hard to believe SLU couldn't qualify for this tournament. Maybe the freshmen who played this year can turn it around next year....or at least make the conference tournament. Anyway, thanks for all the comments & insight soccerslu, sandon, kami, sport billy, billiken soccer, horse stinger, slufan13, schapes and any other SLU commentor....Even Soccer Tom...
2012 SAINT LOUIS CommitsName Pos. Hometown High School Club Donte Brangman MF Bermuda Montverde Academy (Fla.) Fusion International Tyler David MF Lakeville, Minn. Lakeville North USSDA Minnesota Thunder Isaac Fraley D Jenks, Okla. Jenks Tulsa SC David Graydon MF Ireland Montverde Academy (Fla.) Fusion International Khalil Karl MF Austin, Texas Lockhart USSDA Lonestar SC Dirk van der Velde D Turlock, Calif. Pitman Turlock FC Evan Wright GK Overland Park, Kan. Blue Valley USSDA Sporting Kansas City
I just noticed that DD lead his rutgers team to the third round. Clearly DD wasnt the problem. Now SLU is like URI, they were once great but now they are just pathetic under their new coaches
You might have something there but this pot has been over stirred way to many times. To say "clearly DD wasn't the problem" has as much truth as "clearly MM is not the answer". Let dead dogs lie. Congratulations to Rutgers and the whole soccer program.
I think the program's problems run deeper than the coaching staff. It's a dead horse but it's a dead horse for a reason but being in the A10 hurts for soccer as there are so many bad teams you have to play. That doesn't mean you can't succeed - Charlotte obviously shows you can - but it makes it harder. Then there's the cost. Only three private schools are in the Sweet 16 this year. When you can only offer partial scholarships (for the most part), it's a lot easier for parents to make up that state school but than at a private college. Obviously there are some very good soccer programs from private schools - Creighton, SMU, Wake Forest, St. John's, Brown, Duke - so it can be done despite the cost but none of the programs listed play in a conference as lowly regarded for soccer as the A10. So that's two big hurdles for the program right off the bat. Then there are things like facilities, the support of the athletic department, recruiting and marketing budgets, academic reputation etc... that the program has to contend with. Then there's the time the program is removed from it's hey-day. The current recruits GRANDPARENTS were in college the last time SLU won a national title. The current recruits were 8 or 9 when Vedad Ibisevic played for SLU. Telling kids SLU was once a college soccer superpower is like telling them Harvard and Army were once dominant in football. It's just not relevant to them. It's just adds up to a perfect storm of issues. It's going to take time, patience, work and luck to get SLU back to being able to contend for the Sweet 16 on a regular basis. It can be done, but there's little room for error and it won't happen overnight.
Yep. You can roll that "I told you so" back to circa 2003-2005, when certain SLU cognescienti were adamant that SLU would 1) not only raise the fortunes of all the teams in the A10, but 2) could be assured to remain a perrenial Top 10 and NCAA contender for years to come.
Any comments on next year's recruits and transfers which are listed/bio'ed on the Bills website as of Feb. 2?
I think it's just another step toward rebuilding SLU. If we can get 4 or 5 of those freshmen/transfers to play as much as Lee, Bryce, Hidalgo, Manning, and Kristo and contribute like those guys did last year, then I'll be really happy. I coached Hoffman a few times while he was younger and he's a great kid, tireless worker, great touch, and has a great feel for the game around him. On the small side for sure but I hope he can make an impact at midfield. Hope to catch a spring game this spring to see how the 2011 class is coming around.
RIP Harry Keough - from the St. Louis Post Dispatch: Harry Keough, a St. Louis postman who was one of the greats of American soccer as a player and a coach, died Tuesday morning at his home in St. Louis. He was 84. Keough was one of five players from St. Louis on the U.S. team that defeated England 1-0 at the 1950 World Cup in Brazil, and made 19 appearances in all with the national team. In 1967, he became coach of the St. Louis University soccer team and guided the team to five NCAA titles. He was the head coach at SLU for 16 seasons. From 1969 to 1972, his teams went 45 matches without a loss. At a time when professional soccer wasn't an option, Keough was a legend in the amateur ranks, helping the St. Louis club Kutis to a U.S. Open Cup title and six consecutive U.S. Amateur Cup championships. In 1957, Kutis won both the Open and the Amateur cups, the last team to do that. "I watched Harry growing up playing for Kutis," said veteran TV soccer analyst Bill McDermott, who played for Keough at SLU. "Harry was always one of the best players on the team for Kutis. He played the game differently, saw the game differently. He was calm and assured. He was always the leader of the team. Soccer royalty has passed away." "I don't know of anyone who did more for the advancement of soccer in the '50s, '60s and '70s," said his son Ty, who also played for the U.S. national team and worked as a television soccer analyst. "Not only as a player that revolutionized St. Louis soccer and U.S. soccer but with his NCAA accomplishments, as a diplomat, and as a spokesperson for the sport." Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/socc...1b1-11e1-8f34-0019bb30f31a.html#ixzz1ljOPSRQR
I truly question why MM would agree to the transfer of Hoffman from Loyola unless he begged and pleaded to be accepted and is receving ZERO $$. Years ago we accepted transfers from SMU, UCONN, IU but now Loyola? What's next Wash U? How far has this program sunk? Hoffman = Another midget in the midfield. Great. I dont care how hard this kids works he is not a difference maker and will get his clock cleaned all over the field. Complete and absolute waste. Give me talent I will will beat your hard work every day of the week This recruiting class had better be a good one and they had better win this year or MM is in trouble Native son Kevin Grimes...your hometown is calling you Could it be time for the $$ alumni to follow the Majerus bball blueprint?
"Give me talent I will will beat your hard work every day of the week" Your Talent= 2 Derek Fisher G 6-1 205 3 Devean George G-F 6-8 240 8 Kobe Bryant G 6-6 215 12 Jannero Pargo * G 6-1 170 14 Stanislav Medvedenko F 6-10 255 17 Rick Fox F 6-7 235 21 Kareem Rush G 6-6 215 34 Shaquille O'Neal C 7-1 335 4 Luke Walton F 6-8 245 7 Brian Cook F 6-10 240 20 Gary Payton G 6-4 180 11 Karl Malone F 6-9 256 54 Horace Grant F 6-10 245 9 Bryon Russell G-F 6-7 225 31 Jamal Sampson F 6-11 235 My Hard Work= 7 Chucky Atkins G 5-11 160 1 Chauncey Billups G 6-3 202 41 Elden Campbell C 6-11 215 44 Hubert Davis G 6-5 183 24 Tremaine Fowlkes F 6-8 220 8 Darvin Ham F 6-7 220 32 Richard Hamilton G-F 6-6 185 10 Lindsey Hunter G 6-2 170 7 Mike James G 6-2 188 31 Darko Milicic F-C 7-0 250 13 Mehmet Okur F-C 6-11 249 22 Tayshaun Prince F 6-9 215 39 Zeljko Rebraca C 7-0 257 5 Bob Sura G 6-5 200 3 Ben Wallace F-C 6-9 240 30 Rasheed Wallace F-C 6-10 225 34 Corliss Williamson F 6-7 245 I WIN Your Talent= 20 G *Vladislav Tretiak 2 D *Viacheslav Fetisov 7 D *Alexei Kasatonov 16 C *Vladimir Petrov 17 LW *Valeri Kharlamov 13 RW *Boris Mikhailov (K) 19 RW Helmuts Balderis 14 D Zinetula Bilyaletdinov 23 RW Aleksandr Golikov 25 C Vladimir Golikov 9 LW Vladimir Krutov 11 RW Yuri Lebedev 24 RW Sergei Makarov 10 C/RW Aleksandr Maltsev 1 G Vladimir Myshkin 5 D Vasili Pervukhin 26 LW Aleksandr Skvortsov 12 D Sergei Starikov 6 D Valeri Vasiliev 22 C Viktor Zhluktov My Hard Work= 30 G *Jim Craig 3 D *Ken Morrow 5 D *Mike Ramsey 10 C *Mark Johnson 24 LW *Rob McClanahan 8 RW *Dave Silk 6 D Bill Baker 9 C Neal Broten 23 D Dave Christian 11 RW Steve Christoff 21 RW Mike Eruzione (C) 28 RW John Harrington 1 G Steve Janaszak 17 D Jack O'Callahan 16 C Mark Pavelich 25 LW Buzz Schneider 19 RW Eric Strobel 20 D Bob Suter 27 LW Phil Verchota 15 C Mark Wells I WIN!-remember you said everyday of the week.
Not to take this thread off the beaten path, but I could not resist. Are you honestly (and I should ask soberly) suggesting that a team comprised of Kobe Bryant, Shaq, Gary Payton, Karl Malone and Rick Fox or Horace Grant would lose to any combo of players on your "hard work" roster? And for that matter, you honestly (again soberly I presume) include Eldon Campbell and Rasheed Wallace on your "hard work" team?
I am not just suggesting, that is what happened! Those are the rosters for the 2004 NBA Finals. The Detroit Pistons crushed the LA Lakers! A perfect example of a team with more skilled players getting beat by less skilled players but a better team because they performed their tasks. In case you can't figure it out the second set of rosters are for the Russian & USA hockey teams for the 1980 Winter Olympics. Too often the "skilled" players do not want to fulfill their tasks. If you are a coach and you are looking to build a coulture at a program do you think short term or long term? Would you want guys that are less talented but do it your way or guys a little more talented that insist that are going to play the way they want to play. Schools like UNC & Maryland can keep the talented players in line because of the mere competion for spots and the ability to replace through recruiting. Look at Charlotte another team where guys bought in and performed the functions they were asked to do. So yea give me the guys who will perform their tasks and you can have the guys that play for a team of 1.
Ahhh...So your argument is more than the simple vacuum of better talent, but also includes things like people who are well past their primes and should have retired years previously before the competition and guys severely injured, which is the reality that must be included in your examination of the Lakers vs Pistons. I understood the rest were hockey players. It's just not a sport I'm interested in enough to watch until the SC Finals. I'm still not connecting your argument with sports (college sports) in general and St. Louis in particular. Not that I'm a SLU expert or deep fan, it's just that the formula of selecting lesser skilled hard working teams over talent laden teams, when all things are relatively equal, is in most cases looking for lightining in bottle and IMHO unsupported by the reality of competition.
My first response was to someone else who claimed he would always win with the more talented team. In response I gave examples of very talented coaches that lost with very talented teams to "lesser" teams. I concede it is my opinion that the poster would not have done better than Phil Jackson or the Russian hockey coach and my opinion could be false. He very well may have coached those respective teams to victory defeating my arguement and proving that he could win everyday of the week with the more talented team. You implied that I must be nuts/crazy/drunk to think the Piston's roster would ever lose to the Lakers roster. They did lose but you want to give excuses for the Lakers poor performance, too old and injuries. If you were picking your team for that year how many of those Piston players would have been on it? Ok forget NBA why did Russian professionals lose to US college kids? Which of these teams, (Akron, Connecticut, Creighton or Charlotte), has the most talent? Which one has the least talent? It is not lightning in a bottle. This happens all the time. The hockey game is probably the greatest difference in talent of my examples, but in college soccer the difference in talent isn't so great. You are going to be more successful with a group that buys in than with a talented group that doesn't and a more talented group is less likely to buy in. Upsets happen all the time because the lesser team is more committed to doing the right thing or following the plan. All things are not equal when it comes to SLU soccer. They won't get the most talented guys. I am not a SLU supporter. I do know DD, MM & also Kevin Grimes. Mike is a good coach and replacing him with Grimes would just have the SLU supporters calling for Grimes' head the next year. It will take some time and patience to build the program and you start with guys that will run through a brick wall for you. Hopefully you get those guys cheap so you can spend money on some guys that can make a difference and be team players. Of course the best team is a talented one that follows directions. SLU won't get that right now.
Really? Why do you think so? Patience with going backwards? DD made it pretty far into the tournament in his second year at Rutgers, but we couldn't even get into our conference tournament. "running through a brick wall" haha, you must be kidding.
DD did the same here. It wasn't until years 3+ when we had his players did we completely collapse. Just as it is unfair to judge MM at this point. It is equally unfair to judge DD. Give them both another year to get "their team" going and lets see where they are.
I don't think that's an accurate analogy. His first year at Rutgers was a disaster with mostly the players that were already there. In 2011 he brought in 12 players that I think contributed a lot to their success.
First off...my apologies on the implied statements you referenced. No intent/desire to personally disparage you and I can see where that came across. Concerning your points about talent vs hard work...It's hard to agree with you. The examples you cite are proof that it happens. But they are one-offs. It's hyperbole that they happen all the time. When they happen, they are seismic, they're discussed more and longer because they're unexpected. Oddsmakers, people who make their living on such things, would not see the results as repeatable events. That's why they're called upsets. Also, when they happen, it is always because of more complex factors than a lesser talented team worked harder or wanted it more than the talented team. Consistent, championship level winning starts with a talent base, not a locker room of hard workers. Other factors have to fall into place, but it starts with talent. Specific to SLU, I think some of the main points of the posters in this thread have been SLU does not have the talent base to return the school to the rich historical championship level it has been at in the past. Another point made has been made SLU cannot recruit enough nationwide talent to reach that level simply by selling their rich history. I won't speak to the talent SLU has today. After witnessing SLU's aggressive recruiting with some good players in my area, including one close to me, I can say some of the posters here are spot on. SLU is a very tough sell to today's recruiting class. Their history is pre-historic and lost on the 18 year olds. Last season's results moved them yet another year away from that rich history. Some of the things recruiters can use to attract talent to their program such as tuition/school costs, school size, exciting city, major conference, playing style, etc., are all obstacles at SLU, making their desired recovery not so simple. Their hope lies in somehow landing national talent (because St. Louis' talent base may not be enough bring SLU back to the fan's expected level) lies in consistent big time wins. But that can only happen by attracting more talent that fulfills its potential/hype, not just a good locker room or players whom are hard workers.
BCB just qualified for the worst post of the last 10 years. Congrats You are the reason college soccer in this country is never taken seriously Hard work over talent under the veil of "buy in". Wow..Just Wow. You are clearly stuck in the 1930s. I am speechless..There are actually people like you that are still in existence. I thought you were extinct like the dinosaurs As far as SLU history..No on cares anymore except the old men who played at that time and wear their rings to the local bars & STL Soccer HOF dinners telling themselves how great they were...playing against largely ZERO competition. Let's all agree that was the dark ages and a time that SLU was lucky enough to have a had huge head start The reality of the situation is SLU can be great again if they adopt modern day tactics and think creatively As I have stated previously if MM has a repeat of this past year he will be gone. The wolves are gathering at the door. At that point we need to bring in a proven winner (not an Asst) who has built a program from the ground up. My two targets would be Porter and Grimes. If it takes $500k to get it done..well get it done $$ alums ala the Majerus model. Otherwise this program will NEVER regain its glory