Champions League: Group E - Matchday 5 - November 23, 2011 - Bayer Leverkusen v. Chelsea FC [R]

Discussion in 'Chelsea' started by fernb8, Nov 22, 2011.

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  1. Lamps>Gerrard

    Lamps>Gerrard Member

    Feb 15, 2009
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #201 Lamps>Gerrard, Nov 24, 2011
    I like the sound of the 4-3-1-2. If we had a real right mid/wing, would love to see a 4-4-2. Really just want to see two strikers. Either of Torres/Drogba + Studge.
     
  2. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    #202 nicephoras, Nov 24, 2011
    We have five(!!) natural strikers not even counting Kalou. Playing with only one striker doesn't really maximize that, and instead forces us to play them as wide players, where they're not as good. So why not try playing with two strikers?
    Of course, I've been saying that since the summer :)
     
  3. JediSoccer

    JediSoccer Member

    Jul 13, 2010
    Spokane, Washington
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    #203 JediSoccer, Nov 24, 2011
    Let's face it, guys. We've been Genked.
     
  4. jcm28

    jcm28 Member

    Apr 12, 2009
    Puerto Rico
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Puerto Rico
    #204 jcm28, Nov 25, 2011
    I agree with this completely. We should play with 2 strikers upfront. Maybe we could try the diamond now that we have someone who can play at the tip of it (Mata).
     
  5. fernb8

    fernb8 Member+
    Staff Member

    Aug 12, 2002
    #205 fernb8, Nov 25, 2011
    seen the goal a few times now and have to agree with the consensus here that Cech could have done better on the goal

    he seems to get his feet wrong and then incorrectly plays the ball thinking it is going over and instead of tipping it away he seems to pull his hand back

    I still think it was a difficult shot and it appears that Cech saw it relatively late but a keeper of his stature should be making that save
     
  6. fernb8

    fernb8 Member+
    Staff Member

    Aug 12, 2002
    #206 fernb8, Nov 25, 2011
    fair enough Cris (and yas ;))

    I just think that we created enough to get something out of the game while Bayern did have three good chances both of their goals came from individual errors on our part. I just dont think we deserved to lose based on what I saw.
     
  7. Yaroni

    Yaroni Member

    Aug 31, 2007
    Tel Aviv
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Israel
    #207 Yaroni, Nov 25, 2011
    i agree that we need to play more than one striker, but if AVB doesnt stop with the high line then our back for will have much more problem without an extra midfield player.

    The system needs to be changed, not just 4-3-3/4-4-2/4-3-2-1. Its how those respective formations are setup. Its not that one sided.
     
  8. Ninjatend0

    Ninjatend0 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 10, 2007
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    #208 Ninjatend0, Nov 25, 2011
    i guess i'm going to come in and disagree about the two striker comments. well, really not the two striker comments, but the 4-4-2. i think its been happening for a while, and i think its really starting to show now, but the 4-4-2 is dated. every top squad in europe has an extra midfielder in there. even fergie is moving away from the 4-4-2 because he knows its not adequate at the top level anymore, especially against europe's elite. you can say he's playing two strikers, but rooney has been playing so deep, i don't think it's hard to see they are starting to play more of a 4-2-3-1. the game is changing right now, and its certainly not going TOWARDS a 4-4-2.

    put it this way, if we DO play two strikers, we need one of them to be able to drop deep and play out of the midfield making us flexible from moving fluidly from a 4-4-1-1 and 4-2-3-1. i understand the beauty and simplicity of the 4-4-2 and the getting back to basics approact, and ESPECIALLY the english games love and affinity to the system, but i PERSONALLY (though i know i'm not alone) have the opinion that going to a 4-4-2 long term is not the answer.

    but to kind of add to what Yaroni said, i don't think the 4-3-3 is the problem anyway, its the players movements within that structure. we may have a lot of strikers, but it does you now good to have two strikers if the midfield can't control the game and get passes into them. and while one could make the argument that a 2 man midfield makes that even harder, it also doesn't mean a 3 or even 5 man midfield automatically is the answer. the players still have to execute.
     
  9. fernb8

    fernb8 Member+
    Staff Member

    Aug 12, 2002
    #209 fernb8, Nov 25, 2011
    Villas-Boas was dismissive of Ballack's comments: "Michael is always very self-opinionated. I disagree with him. He doesn't live in this dressing room. He used to live here before and didn't solve many problems then. He has to make a self-analysis of his time here and maybe draw other conclusions."
     
  10. Cris 09

    Cris 09 Trololololo

    Nov 30, 2004
    Westfalenstadion
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    #210 Cris 09, Nov 25, 2011
    What were Ballsack's comments?
     
  11. fernb8

    fernb8 Member+
    Staff Member

    Aug 12, 2002
    #211 fernb8, Nov 25, 2011
  12. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    #212 nicephoras, Nov 25, 2011
    Fashion in tactics waxes and wanes. Right now everyone in Germany is playing a 4-2-3-1, which almost no one in England plays, for example. One system's not inherently better than another - all systems are designed to maximize their players' performance. Who cares if the 4-4-2 is less common if it works? If we try and it fails, I'll gladly hold up my hands and say I was wrong. But until we try it, how can we know? If Moneyball has taught us anything, it's that there's hidden value in things that the rest of the sports market doesn't value. If the types of players that would do well in a 4-4-2 or a 4-3-1-2 are underpriced, getting them might make sense instead of spending crazy amount of money on players for a 4-3-3 that everyone else plays.

    But, at the end of the day, if a lot of our players work in a 4-4-2.....why not at least bloody try it instead of announcing to the world we're playing a "modern" system that seems to be producing worse and worse results?
     
  13. Naughtius Maximus

    Naughtius Maximus Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    #213 Naughtius Maximus, Nov 25, 2011
    TBH I think he was right, we do look mentally weak and unsure of ourselves. People who normally just make a pass are hesitant and allowing the other side to intercept with the extra delays they're introducing into play.
     
  14. Cris 09

    Cris 09 Trololololo

    Nov 30, 2004
    Westfalenstadion
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    #214 Cris 09, Nov 25, 2011
    Yeah...I don't think he is slagging the club and I don't think that was his intention either. Like Andy says, from the little I have seen of Chelsea as of late, we are missing that killer instinct that we once had. I don't think it is AVB's fault - maybe just a mental situation that is a build up of the past results.

    We need some big wins.
     
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