Opponent deliberately running up to the ball before free kick is taken

Discussion in 'Referee' started by Sachsen, Oct 22, 2011.

  1. Sachsen

    Sachsen Member+

    Aug 8, 2003
    Broken Arrow, Okla.
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    OK, I know we've had this discussion before, but after a few searches, I can't find anything specifically about this situation. I just want to know what you think and if there are any official resources out there from USSF or FIFA to refer to other than what I've already found.

    Quick and simple: I blow the whistle for a foul requiring a free kick restart. The kicking team puts the ball down. An opponent immediately and deliberately runs up to stand right in front of the ball. This opponent was more than ten yards away when I blew the whistle for the foul.

    This happened this morning, and I immediately told the defender that she could not do that, that she was required to maintain a distance of ten yards from the ball, and that by running up to the ball deliberately she was delaying the restart.

    After the game, my AR - who is an instructor and assessor - told me I was wrong, that defenders can do that all they want, and then I have to make it a ceremonial restart and manage the wall.

    This completely goes against what I read in the ATR under Law 13.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Cho Da

    Cho Da Member

    Sep 15, 2009
    Sure they can do that, but then show them the yellow card and get on with the game.
     
  3. IASocFan

    IASocFan Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 13, 2000
    IOWA
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would pro-actively yell, "10 yards! Move back!" If she was still standing there, it's Yellow Card time.
     
  4. Gary V

    Gary V Member+

    Feb 4, 2003
    SE Mich.
    You big softy. :)

    If a player runs from a distance to get immediately in front of the ball, that's a caution every time for me.
     
  5. Hattrix

    Hattrix Member

    Sep 1, 2002
    Chicago
    This is just sad. Did he also tell you that throw-ins can be one handed, and taken from two yards inside the line?
     
  6. refmedic

    refmedic Member

    Sep 22, 2008
    Shame on this Instructor/assessor for telling you incorrect information. No wonder we have so many referees out there who don't know the laws. The people teaching and evaluating them don't know the laws either.

    Opponents must retire 10 yards from a free kick. There's nothing that says that the team taking the kick, you know, the team that was fouled, is required to ask the referee for permission to take the kick freely. If a defender stands in front of the ball to prevent the quick free kick, yellow card, immediately, along with an a$$ chewing. It won't happen again. None of this "ref, you didn't even talk to her first" crap. Unless this is her first soccer game ever, she knows that she can't do that, and that it can earn her a caution. Nip it in the butt immediately. If you get it right the first time, every time, it is unlikely to turn into a problem later on.
     
  7. sjquakes08

    sjquakes08 Member+

    Jun 16, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "But sir, you have to tell him to get back first!"



    :cool:
     
  8. BlackBart

    BlackBart Member

    Mar 22, 2011
    You can take a throw-in one handed if your other hand is not available, missing, broken, etc.
     
  9. oldreferee

    oldreferee Member

    May 16, 2011
    Tampa
    MY thoughts are that your instructor/assessor may not be so COMPLETELY insane as some of my fellow posters might declare. :eek:

    Yes to the advice on this board that this is misconduct pure and simple.
    Yes to everything that you read in the ATR (with an additional shout out to the "managing free kick" directive http://www.ussoccer.com/Referees/Resource-Center-Deactivated/Zone-3.aspx).

    But I will see behaviour similar to this in at least 5 televised games this week, all with referees that are WAY above my pay-grade. I doubt any of them will simply grab a card the first time it happens (though that happens, too). The culture of our sport is NOT black and white on this issue, and the ART of refereeing demands that we deal with each instance as that game demands.

    Good luck.
     
  10. soccertim

    soccertim Member

    Mar 29, 2001
    Mass
    I don't agree with the televised games argument, that would mean that basketball referees shouldn't call traveling because it rarely gets called on LeBron. You might disagree with "card it the first time", but do you really agree with "defenders can do that all they want"?
     
  11. oldreferee

    oldreferee Member

    May 16, 2011
    Tampa
    No.
    I was just trying to get to the idea that this isn't a math problem.
    It is clearly within the LOTG to card this cr@p every time it happens.
    But that is not the state of the art for refereeing.
    On any given day, competent, successful referees will meet this behaviour with anything from laughter to stink-eye, talking to shouting,...
    It's a judgement call what will be best for that game that day.
     
  12. jkc313

    jkc313 Member

    Nov 21, 2001
    Actually this is one instance that is absolutely black and white. The defender simply cannot do this. Period. The only "art" is do you pull your card the first time this happens or the second. The assessor/instructor is 100% wrong
     
  13. espola

    espola Member+

    Feb 12, 2006
    So what is the result of the assessment if the referee under review tells the assessor he is wrong? Does the assessor card him for dissent?
     
  14. aek chicago

    aek chicago Member

    Sep 17, 2004
    +1.

    Upgrade assesment match this morning.

    Managed to get through the first half without any cautions, albeit having #12 yellow being a doufus throughout. Talked to him once before half.

    Now I'm one to always try and talk myself out of a card if possible, BUT.....
    two minutes into the second half #12 yellow comes in WAAAAY too hard for my liking on a challenge in midfield. Yellow right then and there. Player needed it, game needed it.

    No more than two minutes after that, yellow wins a free kick in mdifield near the touchline on ar2's side RIGHT BY the assesor. #3 moves right in front of the ball and sticks his right leg out as yellow looks to pass to his left...yellow then looks to pass to his right and blue sticks his left leg out....yellow throws his hands up quicky in despair despite not having ever put the ball in play.

    Out comes the yellow for DRS. No talking to, no verbal warning, NADA...two minutes after I had given my first card of the match.

    Assesor later told me DRS card was 100% correct.
     
  15. LawFiveTarHeel

    LawFiveTarHeel BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2010
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    FWIW I believe, as OLDREFEREE does, that there is more art to refereeing than science. A long time ago I learned to make my cards count in helping me manage a game. If the card does not buy me something I feel is needed, then I am not going to waste it. I don't ration them - I simply try to use them for maximum effect. You can be 100% correct by the LOTG/ATR/GTP in using your tools and 100% guilty of being foolish in doing so. Or as the English telly announcers like to say, "a harsh booking."

    On this field, in this game, at this moment then perhaps a card was the right thing. On a different day maybe not. It's not all black and white, mostly it's shades of gray. That's where the art comes in ...
     
  16. gosellit

    gosellit BigSoccer Supporter

    May 10, 2005
    For those that disagree with the above, it may be worth your time to read one of the other 2009 Directives, "Game Management Model: Flow, Foul Selection/Recognition & Game Control"
     
  17. GlennAA11

    GlennAA11 Member+

    Jun 12, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    Not to completely derail the thread....but the phrase is "nip it in the BUD" not "butt"
     
  18. Gary V

    Gary V Member+

    Feb 4, 2003
    SE Mich.
    For all intensive purposes, I like "butt" in some situations.
     
  19. dadman

    dadman Yo soy un papa

    DC United
    United States
    Apr 13, 2001
    Reston, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh, I see what you did there.

    "Intensive purposes." :: snort :: :D

    But it's a mute point by now anyway.
     
  20. SccrDon

    SccrDon Member+

    Dec 4, 2001
    Colorado Springs
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mr Language Man needs a drink. :p

    On topic, I had a player pull the "run up to the ball" described in OP. Bam! Caution. Not only did she not do that again that game, she didn't try it again the rest of the time I coached her (another season and a half). So sometimes the effect of a call lasts longer than you'd think.
     
  21. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    If someone wants to run towards the ball from that far away, I will immediately bark "Don't be moving towards the ball, blue!" Quite loud, quite clear. They will usually reconsider at that point. If they don't, bang. Out comes the lemon one. What I don't want to see is referees talking to the players about moving back on every single free kick, all game. You're getting disrespected, guys. It's a game and you haven't figured out what's happening.
     
  22. Sachsen

    Sachsen Member+

    Aug 8, 2003
    Broken Arrow, Okla.
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    OP here.

    Okay, after an email back-and-forth with this particular instructor/assessor, he clarified his thoughts somewhat. He was stating that in last year's recert, they received instructions that if the team that got fouled does not take an IMMEDIATE quick restart, then we as refs are REQUIRED to make it a ceremonial restart. In that case, he argues, it doesn't matter if a defender has run up to the ball or not, because we are going to make it ceremonial and manage the wall anyway.

    First of all, I don't remember this from the recert last year at all, but I will be the first to admit I snooze through those things, so I may have missed it. However, that's not what the ATR says. Second, I would argue that if the defender is in the process of sprinting towards the ball just as soon as the player taking the kick gets the ball in his hands, there's really no way for the attacking team to even think about taking a quick restart because they are immediately being flustered by a defender coming in where he should not be.

    I'm glad to see the majority of you are confirming what I thought was right. I will continue to do as I have always done, namely immediately tell defenders doing such a thing that they cannot do it and must retreat, whether the attacking team is "asking for ten" or not.
     
  23. LawFiveTarHeel

    LawFiveTarHeel BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2010
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    The USSF has a video out on this subject with everything you would ever want to know in glorious color and in full motion. Not to contradict your assessor, in the position papers and in this video there is nothing said about a requirement to intervene and make something ceremonial. If however, you could be perceived by the teams as intervening through your presence, whistle or shadow for that matter, then it becomes important to involve yourself and manage the restart.

    Almost always the best thing to do is get the heck away and let the game flow. If someone chooses to commit an FRD offense then deal with it using your best judgment, which may dictate a caution -or- the gentle art of persuasion, as you deem best.
     
  24. law5guy

    law5guy Member

    Jun 26, 2001
    The video can be downloaded from US Soccer's Referee Page:
    http://resources.ussoccer.com/referee/Videos/Managing the Free Kick.zip

    According to the world’s foremost authority on the subject … it is indeed “bud”.
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=de_P2aUZJyA"]Barney Fife - Nip It - YouTube[/ame]
     
  25. MrPerfectNot

    MrPerfectNot Member+

    Jul 9, 2011
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ya know, clearly I need to re-focus on work - as I was just sitting here rocking back and forth in my chair at my office, enjoying Barney's efforts to Nip it...
     

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