Re: The Continuing Saga in Phoenix/Atlanta/Winnipeg Hulsizer won't be buying PHX... http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=370198
Re: The Continuing Saga in Phoenix/Atlanta/Winnipeg I never knew that. Now that I do, I am glad they moved to Denver. This would've been tragic.
Re: The Continuing Saga in Phoenix/Atlanta/Winnipeg Not the classic logo from the Ray Neufeld, Pokey Reddick days or the streamlined one from the Selanne era but I think it's cool: MLS could learn from the NHL on how to design logos/badges.
Re: The Continuing Saga in Phoenix/Atlanta/Winnipeg Do you know why they changed the logo? Because the Winnipeg Jets got their name from their original owner, whose favorite team was the New York Jets. That's why the ownership group took some convincing about naming them the Jets, and part of it was they had to have a logo that somehow associated the team with Canada.
Re: The Continuing Saga in Phoenix/Atlanta/Winnipeg The new logo looks like a cross between a beer logo (Molson I guess) and an airline. It's not bad though - I could get used to it. In other news (I've been following this a bit), it's looking very good for a return of the Nordiques. The province and the city apparently have reached an agreement to build a new $400 million (I assume that's CDN) arena. A media company called Quebecor will pay over 30 million in naming rights (double that if the arena gets an NHL tenant), on top of a monthly fee I believe, and also wants to purchase the team. Speculation is they might not be going ahead with this if there weren't some kind of gentlemen's agreement with the league about a new team. And the old owner Marcel Aubut publicly said QC will have a new team within the next two years. Phoenix is apparently deep in the doo-doo, Florida is in miserable condition but has a very long lease, Dallas filed for bankruptcy and is looking for a new owner, the Islanders need a place to play after Nassau Colosseum gets torn down in 2015, and now there is even some problem with New Jersey. One of the owners there apparently paid 25 million to get rid of his interest in the team so he wouldn't be on the hook for a lot more later. Columbus is reportedly in trouble as well.
Re: The Continuing Saga in Phoenix/Atlanta/Winnipeg Looks like an outdoors-wear logo, or a logo for winter boots or something.
Re: The Continuing Saga in Phoenix/Atlanta/Winnipeg Tom Galiardi is buying the Stars and the Nassau Coliseum isn't getting torn down in 2015, that's when the Islander's lease runs out.
Re: The Continuing Saga in Phoenix/Atlanta/Winnipeg Oh thanks - sorry for the misinformation. This Galiardi dude is Canadian, eh? Is it certain that he'll keep the team in Dallas? I guess even if he wanted to move them to Canada, that would only leave Hamilton if Quebecor has claims to the new Nordiques.
Re: The Continuing Saga in Phoenix/Atlanta/Winnipeg He's Canadian, from BC I think and owns the Kamloops Blazers.
Re: The Continuing Saga in Phoenix/Atlanta/Winnipeg MTS Centre looks crazy today. Really want the Jets to win their opener, that type of crazy hockey atmosphere that can only happen in Canada looks beautiful. I'd love to have a team here but only places in the US can replicate that crazy love those Canucks have for hockey.
Re: The Continuing Saga in Phoenix/Atlanta/Winnipeg There has never been a question of passion for hockey in Canada. Even though I'd say Americans in Minnesota and New York can get passionate about the game, to compare them to Canada is obviously a fools errand. The question was all about money. Winnipeg has a metro area population of 700,000 people which is slightly larger than Anchorage, Alaska or about the same size as El Paso, Texas. Obviously you don't see many, nay any top level pro sports there. So if anything, it just shows the high level of passion that Canadians have that maybe they could just pull this off. On a side note, the NHL has now started blacking out Carolina and Nashville games in the Atlanta area to Gamecenter live and Center Ice customers. Why? Despite being a four hour and seven hour drive, these are now considered local teams in Atlanta and they can only broadcast 40 games each in the Atlanta area. So bravo NHL, way to punish Atlanta hockey fans for your own incompetent selection of ownership.
Re: The Continuing Saga in Phoenix/Atlanta/Winnipeg Also RIP Rick Rypien Today should have been the first game of your season.
Re: The Continuing Saga in Phoenix/Atlanta/Winnipeg Point taken, but according to wiki the Anchorage metro area is only half the size of Winnipeg's. Speaking of Rick Rypien though, apparently Kevin Smith is making a film right now about a hockey goon from the 70s who always wanted to score a goal, based on the song Hit Somebody by Warren Zevon. Should be awesome when it comes out!
Re: The Continuing Saga in Phoenix/Atlanta/Winnipeg LOL! I totally *********** that up. Some other areas with roughly the same size. Little Rock Knoxville Poughkeepsie, NY Charleston Syracuse Grand Rapids, MI Greensboro, NC Wichita Now keep in mind that unlike some of those above, Winnipeg doesn't have a large population in the surrounding are to make up those numbers either. Manitoba has a population in the entire population of 1.2 million people. The next biggest town in Manitoba is Brandon with 40,000 people. I think you can see some of the serious challenges that Winnipeg might face one day in the future.
Re: The Continuing Saga in Phoenix/Atlanta/Winnipeg The great equalizer though is the fact that Canadians are absolutely nuts about hockey (which you alluded to). You have to assume a Canadian city the size of Winnipeg can compete with certain U.S. cities three or four times its size. As much as people want to blame ownership groups for the attendance woes in Atlanta and Phoenix, those markets were always facing an uphill battle in selling the game. Winnipeg doesn't and never will have that problem. Winnipeg's (and Quebec's) main problem in the mid 90s wasn't a lack of fan enthusiasm, it was the weak Canadian dollar (and arena issues). My understanding is that the league has taken steps to combat the exchange rate problem, and they have a new (albeit relatively small) arena, so I'm not really worried about Winnipeg's future prospects.
Re: The Continuing Saga in Phoenix/Atlanta/Winnipeg The league hasn't really done anything to combat the exchange rate problem. The exchange rate is just awesome right now for Canadian teams, who pay their big salaries in US dollars. When/if the Canadian dollar drops back to .75 cents where it was when Winnipeg left, then we will see. Right now there is very little revenue sharing between teams, the only good news is there is a salary cap, but there is also a salary floor. Winnipeg has deep pocketed ownership, and again, there won't be any problem for the next five years minimum, and I mean, there won't be A SINGLE problem for that time. We're talking about in the future, down the line, ten, twenty, thirty years. Winnipeg is going to be a challenge, regardless of all the good feelings right now. We think Atlanta had low attendence, right? They averaged 13,500 fans per game, which was one of the lowest in the league, no question. And frankly that number is probably inflated. Here is the thing though, the capacity of the MTS Centre in Winnipeg is 15,000. That means the difference between being sold out and Atlanta is 1500 fans. With the admission that Winnipeg prices are MUCH higher per seat than in Atlanta. Now it's not a problem right now, because obviously the season tickets are sold out for five years. But Gary Bettman had a point that said, it's not going to work if the building isn't sold out every night. So that's a challenge. We all think about Canada as selling out every building in every city even when their teams are terrible like Toronto (sorry Leaf fans) and Edmonton have been. But that's a relatively new phenomenon since the lockout. Before then there were questions whether some teams like Edmonton could survive in Canada. Things have changed since then, and things will change in the future. No one doubts Canada's passion for the game, no sane person anyway. In fact that passion is the only reason a city like Winnipeg would ever host a major sports team. But there is the question is whether it will be sustainable for decades or not. No one knows, but we'll obviously find out. It's also a bit silly, for some commentators to compare cities like Atlanta and Phoenix to Canadian markets. Obviously they don't have the same passion for the game, obviously they don't have the same history. Not a news flash to say that there is no ice in Phoenix or Atlanta, well ever. Guess what, there isn't any ice in San Jose or LA either, and those teams are selling out every night and doing well. Why? They have a good product on the ice. The NHL embarked on a massive undertaking that no other major sports league has tried and succeeded at. The NHL opened up the sport into markets that had NO HOCKEY HISTORY whatsoever, none. You expect that to be easy? In refute of that, I give you the Montreal Expos and Vancouver Grizzlies. It's not easy. The results? Atlanta obviously failed, and Phoenix might fail. But Nashville, Carolina, Tampa and Anaheim are holding on just fine, and some franchises are succeeding beyond even basic expectations, St. Louis, San Jose, LA, Dallas. The United States is now producing first round draft picks, not just draft picks, but FIRST ROUNDERS from states such as California (Emerson Etem, Bobby Ryan (California trained not born)), Nevada (Jason Zucker- 2nd round I know sorry), Texas (Stefan Noesen), Tennessee (Blake Geoffrion- 2nd round), and Florida has had several players drafted in the 4th round like Colin Suellentrop. One the top prospects, considered a possible early favorite for the number one overall pick in 2013 is Seth Jones. An American defensemen who is from Texas, and the son of former NBA star Popeye Jones. The Sunbelt expansion has been an unquestioned success, both in terms of establishing a national footprint in this country and growing the game across the country. In 1999 before the Thrashers came to Atlanta, there were 911 registered hockey players in the state of Georgia. 911!! Ten years later, there are over 2000 registered hockey players, 84% of whom are under 18. The Thrashers may not have made money for their incompetent owners, but they more than doubled the hockey playing population of the state of Georgia and left a lasting mark of young players.
Re: The Continuing Saga in Phoenix/Atlanta/Winnipeg Are you sure about this? I'm well aware that the strength of the Canadian dollar right now has been terrific for the Canadian teams' bottom line, but I could swear I read recently that some mechanism is in place to protect the Canadian teams should their currency depreciate again in the future (possibly in an interview with Bettmann). I searched for this info and the only thing I could find was on wiki: I guess that was probably what I was referring to. Not sure I believe that number at all. And one of them - either Phoenix or Atlanta, can't remember which - apparently had ticket revenues last season of 450,000 bucks. I mean, that's terrible by any measure. No way Winnipeg can match that lowliness.
Re: The Continuing Saga in Phoenix/Atlanta/Winnipeg http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance/_/year/2011 28 Winnipeg 13,469 They say Winnipeg, but obviously they mean the Atlanta Thrashers. Note that a complete sell out of the MTS centre puts Winnipeg at 24th in attendance in the NHL. Although as I noted....
Re: The Continuing Saga in Phoenix/Atlanta/Winnipeg No, I believe you that that's the official number. I just don't believe the official number!
Re: The Continuing Saga in Phoenix/Atlanta/Winnipeg Like I said, a lot of those tickets are free, (as the plan was to get people to buy concessions and parking etc).
Re: The Continuing Saga in Phoenix/Atlanta/Winnipeg I get your general pont, but Montreal has had a baseball history since the 1920s, with teams in the top rung outside the majors. They were the Dodgers top farm team and pretty much all the big name players of their Brooklyn glory years (Jackie Robinson, Duke Snyder, etc.) played there. The Expos were what the Revolution are now. (I hope the Revs won't have the same fate, but that's another topic.) In their early years, Parc Jarry drew good crowds, even if it was the smallest park at 28,000. Crowds were lively and there was definitely a different vibe to the game than anywhere else. When most teams used to show only away games on TV, the Expos showed their home games, as an advertisement for a fun time out at the ballpark. Unfortunately that all changed when they moved to the Big Owe and ownership really bailed on their stewardship of the franchise, just like the Krafts are doing now.... And I believe it was a certain Mr. Gretzky that might have had an impact on hockey's popularity in the sunbelt, even if they had a team there since the late '60s.
Re: The Continuing Saga in Phoenix/Atlanta/Winnipeg Gretzky was a major force to make hockey a known quantity in the national consciousness. As a kid living in southern California at the time of the trade, I know this because I'd never heard of hockey before that and was playing roller hockey almost immediately. But that said, Gretzky was just a step, and the expansion was another step. Putting those teams in each state create more fans, got more kids playing and the results are out there now.
Re: The Continuing Saga in Phoenix/Atlanta/Winnipeg By the way, CBC might want to prove read their postings. http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opinion/2011/10/nhl-power-rankings-week-2.html?cmp=rss
Mayor goes on the attack http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/hockey/nhl/04/04/newark.mayor.devils.dispute.ap/ good for him...