True, but tactics change from year to year. Strategies used 10, and sometimes even 4 or 5 years ago are no longer valid. In the last decade, the game has transformed into a marathon. Players are running (often sprinting) several more miles than they used to every game. Tactics have had to adjust. The end result is 1 striker formations. You need as much versatility as possible. It's better to have an attacking midfielder who can play in support of the striker. Poachers and pure goal scorers are a dieing bread. There's barely room for one on each team, and even then, they're expected to do more than they used to.
This seems to be the only thread in miles where it's all grown ups and no one going hyperbolic because JK is winless. Kudos to you all. JK is thinking the long-game. He should be given credit for this. I just want the team to be as flexible and versatile as possible: one that can hold leads and kill games with possession, , can take it to certain teams, and be patient with others--all without giving up early goals.
We'll hold off the funeral arrangements for the poachers for now (a lot of tactical trends tend to be a little bit cyclical), but yes, forwards are expected to be more "complete" than they used to be, now that almost everybody is defending with 4 lines.
we'll see. i'll be glad to be proven wrong unlike some posters who actually seem to root for players or the team to fail to prove their hypothesis correct. And just because the JAs combo hasn't produced fruit yet doesn't make the two striker formula broken. however, i'd say that they still have played better when they were both on the field than when they're on an island by themselves.
-------------Dempsey------------- ----------------------------------- Shea--------Donovan--------Holden ------------------------------------ -------Bradley----Beckerman-------- ------------------------------------ Lichaj---Boca----Goodson---Chandler ------------------------------------ ---------------Howard--------------
I don't see anyone in the pool right now can fill in the single forward role.Need someone like Mwanga (of course, a better version) in that role. For two attacking ring mids, Shea looks good, but need more maturation. Still wait for Gyau's growth. For CAM, both Donovan/Dempsey is not good enough but that is what we have. Wait for Gil or someone steps up.
The problem was that they let defenses run through them too easily. (and they didn't score enough). Granted Bradley did not win his last three friendlies and Klinsmann has not won his first three friendlies, the root cause is outside of formations. We're having a lot of trouble finishing, even back in the World Cup. For some weird reason MB and JJ lack chemistry, while Torres and Beckerman play fairly well together. So I think playing Beckerman with Torres is fine. I think if we had a person in the Belgium game who could have at least matched what Shea was doing on the left (Donovan on right, yes he was not available) we could have probably snagged a goal for the tie. Lastly I don't think Bob Bradley is a bad coach, he did a lot of good things. He just couldn't overcome the goal anxiety our team currently has.
Switch Holden and Donovan first (though they can interchange). Also, Torres for Bradley because somewhere along the line Michael has become too timid in defense and too slow in distribution. Bradley needs to step it up after having suffered such a terrible club situation. Then when we realize we aren't creating enough chances, because our midfield can't push up through the middle against quality teams, change to this. ------Dempsey---Juan or Jozy------ ----------------------------------- Shea--------Holden--------Donovan ------------------------------------ -----------Beckerman-------------- ------------------------------------ Lichaj---Boca----Goodson---Chandler ------------------------------------ ---------------Howard-------------- Now our crosses are at least dangerous with 2 heads in the box (including our best head Dempsey). We are dangerous from both sides even with Donovan pinched in (Chandler or Dolo). We have a guy that can switch the play quickly from the middle in Holden (and Torres).
Yes, and Player X's identity is Stuart Holden. No, the personnel you listed have very different strengths and weakness from a central midfield trio of Torres, Holden or Beckerman, and a destroyer.
I'm going to cross-pollinate a post Appoo wrote in the thread discussing the US defensive play vs Belgium. I think his description, while focussed on the US defense, really speaks to the overall performance of the team so far in Klinsi's version of the 4-5-1. Greater allocation of resources to defending and possession and less to attack than under BB. Combine this shift in focus (or resource allocation), with the uncertainties of players fully grasping the "system" in a short period of time, plus a slightly below optimal set of rosters, and you can see why the matches played out the way they have so far. The question is, can Klinsi get this to evolve to a more productive system over the next 10 months?
Positionally it was the same. Edu was supposed to stay back, Jones to move forward, and Bradley do the usual all-over-the-place runs. Of course Edu was not supposed to be a destroyer, but Jones was a distributor (like Torres) and Bradley to run all the way forward (like Holden would do). The problem was that they didn't seem to get what Bob wanted, and Edu moved forward at times, and at times all three stayed back stepping on each other's toes.
------Dempsey---Juan or Jozy------ ----------------------------------- Shea--------Holden--------Donovan ------------------------------------ -----------Beckerman-------------- ------------------------------------ Lichaj---Boca----Goodson---Chandler ------------------------------------ ---------------Howard-------------- This is the true 4132 that I have been begging for. It's what would qualify us with few problems. But by the time the pre-WC friendlies come around, you will have two new CBs. Neither Boca nor Goodson will make it as starters in '14. Beckerman plays Klinsyball so he be will be either 1st, 2nd, or 3rd on the depth chart at the d-mid positions--given that the 4231 is not going away. Frankly, Jones and Bradley better prove they can play Klinseyball before anyone writes them into the first 11. I dont think donovan will be anything more than a part time starter as a center mid. His days out wide are already ending. Mix or Freddy might take a lot of his minutes. Dempsey MUST be a forward from now on His talent is wasted away from the 18. That is why I am convinced JK will go with two forwards much of the time is qualifying. Whether Dempsey is an auto starter by '14 is dubious. I have said this for a long time. The other forward spot is WIDE open. This is where player X will come from. There is always a player X who comes out of nowhere for the USA WC squads.
I'm not happy with Goodson. There, I said it. Look at his numbers for example: balls recovered vs. Belgium = ZERO. Balls lost = EIGHT. At least Orozco-Fiscal recovered some balls versus Costa Rica. Boca-Goodson is not a good pairing. One is getting slow, the other is caught out of position. Also, Holden is becoming a legend the longer he is injured. It's almost like The Return of the King. The guy is good, yes, but he's not a lock and after injury I'd say Torres or Bradley have to be considered ahead of him for the distributing role. Beckerman got my seal of approval now. He should be the DM, above Edu and Jones, but for one detail ---Edu is more versatile. It's one fewer change needed, because he can go into defense.
Yeah, Holden is being built up in peoples minds a bit. I mean the guy still has to show that he can bring it in an EPL match after his injury and hope for no setbacks. He is months off at the least imo.
Somewhat OT, but I can't be the only one who when they see 'Player X' want to respond 'do you remember back in 1959 when he was still known as Player Jackson?'
Dempsey is not a Center Forward. Didier Drogba is your protoype in that position. Jozy Altidore is made for that position, assuming he learns how to hold the ball up. Donovan, though he wears the number, is not a #10, not a field general, and not an orchestrator. In this formation, he is pigeonholed into role that takes him away from the strengths of his game -- counterattacking and pressuring with speed. It is amazing to me that people forget that when he played for Everton, he played wide. Of course, he can play more centrally, but David Moyes is no dummie. Beckerman is a very good MLS player, but right now I put the odds of him making the final 24 at under 30%.
Yep. This was the problem for the US against Mexico in June. The fullbacks needed defensive help from 2 of the 4 attacking players (Bedoya, Adu, Donovan, Dempsey), but they weren't getting it quick enough. And Mexico exploited the space again and again. The first two issues weren't a problem that match, but may be against tougher opposition. Such as Belgium.
This is a great post and absolutely spot on. I am not even sure this will be able to qualify out of Concacaf if we use this formation as our primary option. We really have no forwards, much less one who can hold the ball up. Jozy although built like Drogba, does not like to play with his back to the goal. Although his runs off the ball have improved dramatically, he is too immature to make the runs over and over if he is not getting the ball. His strength, remains, running onto the ball and muscling the defender to get his shot. It remains to be seen if Holden can marshall the attack, certainly this is an entirely different role than he has at Bolton, where he is a classic box to box. Some are attempting to sell Torres, he is ok as a deep lying playmaker, but really nothing like a 10. I remain concerned with our central defenders. Servicable with Goodson. It's a shame we can't use a 12th player. We got holes also if we play a 4-4-2, but I certainly believe we would generate more scoring opportunities. I look forward to seeing our team with all of the players available and how JK sorts it out.
jozy is finally getting starter mins with his club .something he hasnt seen since he was with the redbulls. can we please reserve judgement on what a 21 year old forward can and can not do for a little while longer?
Jozy is probably our best and most accomplished forward in the current pool. He has been a professional for 5 years, now. There are reasons he was not been getting starter minutes until recently. Certainly, he is a work in progress. The topic is the 4-2-3-1. That formation needs a foward with specific skills. Jozy does not possess these skills (at least not now). Most would say that it is entirely appropriate to discuss this matter within the context of this thread. What did you think of his performance, Tuesday?
4312 slightly more defensive minded 4-4-2 , but we need 2 strikers. One striker doesnt work for us. it just doesnt, put it to bed.
Dempsey plays as a false 9, Donovan as a false 10. The formation does not need a forward with specific skills. Your conception of how the formation should be played does. Fernando Torres excels as a lone forward in a 4-2-3-1 and he is a pure slasher.
Fernando Torres has not excelled and has not been slashing much since he got injured pre-World Cup. Though even in his current degraded form he puts US striker pool to shame. I'm betting on players X, Y, and Z - don't know exactly who but maybe some of the kid Olympians will step up big time. Or, our formations don;t matter much, we ain't going - nowhere. Except to World Cup, I think we can limp through qualifying with present pool reeducated to play for Klisnmann, but we will need new blood to be ready to step up to take us anywhere in Brazil. Like an unshackled Charlie Davies did at the Confed Cup. Raw but with speed, talent and determination, he made a difference. (and yeah I know others stepped up too, but new blood was a key ingredient in the run to the final.) Now...back to our regularly scheduled tactical discussion. Just remember, player Z we can't see (yet), who will either spark Jozy to step up his game...or take his spot.