I have to agree with posters who've said at least now we know Torres and Shea can actually be a part of the picture in the future, but I'm feeling a little disappointed that we didn't see a 4-4-2 at all in these last 3 games. Overall in some respects the Belgium game was the most worrisome of these recent friendlies for me. I like Klinsmann's commitment to pace and fitness, but our guys clearly don't know how to let the ball do some of the running for them yet... past two games everyone out there looked ragged by the 80th minute. Great work rate all around, but it costs us the reserves to make any kind of final push. I shudder to think what would happen to us in a full overtime match, and exhaustion will lead to injuries. Torres is definitely the bright spot, the most composed under pressure and only player looking consistently able to control and distribute from the middle of the park in the attacking 3rd. we've needed this for a long time. but he needs players on the same page as him and we still look clueless around the box. hopefully this has been a short term audition for a style of playing emphasizing the wings rather than possession and combinations in attack. when we have found those 3 man combos we've looked dangerous. but unless we can deliver quality crosses and have finishers in the box, it will never matter how consistently rogers, shea, dempsey, chandler, or dolo get to the endline. we took way too many long distance chances instead of building a proper attack around the box, and while i like having attacking fullbacks, and chandler looked great at times with his pace, i don't like seeing our defenders forcing things in the attack or overcommitting on their runs, and he was guilty of that often. nice that edu has improved and beckerman, who i'm not a fan of, worked well defensively, making extra effort to win back balls that could've opened us up. but d-mid remains one of our deepest positions, so i'm not sure why we're bothering bringing in beckerman and larentowicz, when bradley, jones, clark, and edu should have that spot locked down. i don't see rogers really contributing much, at least on the right wing. he looks more comfortable on the left, but unimaginative. i'd be interested to see adu come back into the picture and at least compete with rogers for that spot, he seems like a player that could get on the same page with torres and potentially work well with donovan. that would give us an attack-oriented midfield rather than the 2 d-mid look we've been used to. i definitely thought dempsey looked a bit out of sync with some of the newer players, holding the ball a little too much himself and often playing backward. a lot of our turnovers were due to soft short passes under pressure, and dempsey gave in to this several times unfortunately. what do we need from here? more experimentation at center back? agudelo and altidore paired at forward? or some other looks up top? did chandler make his case for LB or are we still hurting for depth at outside backs? and how do people feel about our wing play at the moment?
Shea, Torres, and Beckerman are keepers. Rogers isn't. Neither Jozy nor Agudelo are very good being the lone forward. I still maintain Clint is our best striker. Disappointed he didn't get a chance up top. Dempsey isn't tremendously effective as a CM. He needs to be wide, or better yet, closer to goal (striker or support striker). Dolo, Goodson, and Boca are 3/4 of our starting defense. Chandler is a step up from Castillo, but isn't the answer at LB. Let him be Dolo's deputy and have a shot at RM. He's got to be better than Rogers. Let the LB search continue. Next up: Fabian Johnson. Why didn't Kljestan come in for Torres? That was horrendous tactics.
Cant really blame Klinsmann. I couldnt see the game. was the belgian goal good atleast. and how was edu's goal and reason for annulation
Belgian goal was out of nothing really. Throw in, clearance came out long, guy shot a low, hard bouncer though traffic that went under Howard. Most are assuming he was screened, as it went under his body. But the shot was low and hard. Looks like we had a player offside when the FK was struck, and that's what the linesman flagged. Though I don't think the player (Agudelo?) was directly involved in the play, though he did try to play the ball. Can't really complain in retrospect. Edu was clearly on.
Even if we lose this game... so what? Belgium is a good team and we took them on thousands of miles away at their place. Maybe I'd be upset about losing to Azerbaijan but not Belgium in the circumstances, especially considering that a US goal was questionably called back.
hmmm.., disappointing to say the least, however I have good hope that the team will improve. ALSO did we have any particularly spectacular plays and runs even in the smalest form. no highlights are up yet.
to me it looked like JK was more interesting in trying people out at DM-- why else would we see edu, beckerman, and larentowicz at the same time? that said, i really don't think kljestan, or any of those guys, is an adequate sub for torres. the minute he comes out, we're basically ceding the middle of the field in the attacking third. i still think he should've come in, though i'd have had him give shea a break, and maybe pushed dempsey into torres' spot.
So, you didn't watch the game, but you assert that you can't really blame Klinsmann.. Interesting theory.
I know what you are saying, and I'm not saying Kljestan is better than Torres, but I don't think that makes a lot of sense. I mean, all three of them can't play DM at the same time. Put Larentowicz in for Edu, and let Kljestan come in for Torres. That gives us our best chance to get the goal we need.
Yep, you can't blame Klinsy. This talent, however, was 100% put together on Sunil's watch. When do we get to talk about him?
My take-aways after JK's 3d game: * I like that we try and play on the ground, from back to front. * I think Torres is a "Reyna-lite" and a useful player; improved from last year, and should have made the Gold Cup roster. * Klinsi seems to be playing a 5-4-1 with the DM as a 3d CB. As a result, the defense has leaked fewer sloppy goals. * It's taken 3 games for JK to figure out that Orozco, Castillo, and Rogers are not starting quality. Hopefully. * We haven't begun the transition to a new, younger central defense yet. This will still be the toughest task this cycle. * We still haven't really found a striker who is good alone up top. * I still have no idea how JK will use both Dempsey and Donovan. * Shea's good MLS season is translating pretty well to the international game. * JK's team is actually a little bit boring, which I didn't expect. * I'm glad there are still 10 months before Qualifiers begin.
all reasonable points more than anything i JK hasn't had a chance to have all the players in camp at once. i think went Johnson's paperwork goes thru he could be used at LB and give us more of an attacking option down the left side. of course the obvious are having landon, clint and stu all available. I think Jozy will do well as the midfield improves and the players become more comforttable with his system. Jozy looked banged up, hopefully he gets back to full health.
100% this in terms of learnings. Especially Brek Shea who clearly impressed. Also - in terms of the formation, hope Jurgen at least tries a 4-4-2 at some point due to our forward situation. Although I don't think we really got to see a complete 4-3-3 since Rogers basically abandoned any semblence of playing right wing and our midfield was super duper crowded. Plus, Clint didn't pass forward at all unless he was dribbling, or passed back (he is not a CAM). He was too far deep and too far from goal where we need him. I am more than happy to stick him at the top of the 4-3-3 and see what happens if we play proper wingers (Shea/Chandler with LD at CAM or Shea/LD with Adu at CAM). CAM is still a limited pool versus the deep-lying playmaker (Torres/Holden). Fabian Johnson can't get his paperwork done fast enough. Hope he can play in October. Chandler is still a keeper. He wasn't a heart attack on a platter like Castillo playing at a position he has played ZERO times. He can sub out Dolo against weaker opposition and learn his trade. Plus, hope to see him on the Olympic squad. I'm still very very glad we have this kid, because otherwise we'd be screwed at RB too (less so than LB, but having him gives me comfort). Questions: 1) Is Tim Ream done for now? Cause not joining the 18 in 3 games is kinda telling. We still haven't identified our next young CB crew, so Jurgen has to call-in more (October friendlies?). 2) Still have no idea how LD and Clint are going to work together either since both were in the same position in the middle both games. They clearly both need to be on the pitch. 3) Who is Klinsmann's preferred dmid? Beckerman and Edu have had the opportunity, is there a favorite yet? 4) Will Sacha get called up again? (I was very surprised he didn't get game time in his home). 5) What formation are we going to see in October? Will we have other strikers? Sending Pontius and Bunbury home was telling. 6) Hope Klinsmann recognizes the Rogers/Castillo/Orozco-Fiscal issues and leaves them home for October. Seems like Jurgen's preferred formation so far is: Shea - Jozy/Juan - [replacement for fast winger] LD - Torres Beckerman/Edu [replacement for fullback] - Boca - Goodson - Dolo/Chandler I don't know where that leaves Clint in all honesty in this formation. I would stick him on the left or right, but he doesn't fit the Jurgen mold of the players that are there now (though he is about an 100x upgrade from Robbie Rogers, and is still an upgrade from the inexperience of Brek Shea). He's not the "fast winger" type. The other obvious place to stick him is up top. Or just play a 4-4-2 and call it a day with the same set of players: Altidore - Dempsey Shea - Torres - Edu/Beckerman - LD LB - Boca - Goodson - Dolo/Chandler
I agree fully...I rather play teams like Belgium, Mexico, Honduras and Costa Rica than to go out there and blast teams like Puerto Rico, Domincan Republic, and St Ives. Again nobody is happy with a loss but when your playing good teams, you get better. It will come together for the US... Hopefully soon!
I feel like I am the only one not high on Torres. He is too small and light for international game and lacks the speed to make up for being so small and light. I feel though he is good at switching the field with his passing the ball usually backwards he is to afraid to run at players and draw the defenders out and provide a killer ball. He cant beat a man 1v1. Whenever he tries he gets caught in possession. Furthermore, his crosses were awful against Belgium and lacked the pace to actually be dangerous. I believe Torres is a good backup to have and should be a solid contributer but their is no way he is our answer in the midfield.
I agree in general, but re: Costa Rica..first off they are certainly a rung below Belgium, but on top of that they were playing their reserves, and we were at home. It certainly isn't about the result, but even playing poorly you don't expect a loss against a Costa Rican B team. Still, I agree on the point that I'd rather play better teams, ideally I'd like a mix just to keep morale up and be able to focus on every aspect of the game. There will be matches in qualifying where we have to break down a bunker, so playing against those lesser teams in friendlies will certainly come in handy in that sense.
I think Torres is a great asset if he is surrounded by the correct players. The problem is, we haven't had enough of those attacking players around him. One thing that I've liked from him that I didn't know he had was the ability to track back and disrupt. That has been a plus, but I wonder if it has been at the expense of our offense?
Steve Davies at SI.com is not high on Torres. In fact - I don't think he could possibly be more scathing: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...lgium.player.ratings/index.html?sct=sc_t11_a3 I must say that I find it a horrible assessment of Torres' contributions the last two games, as he's been a revelation for me. Patience is certainly not a US virtue - even in a country where an NFL team takes three years to implement it's "system" and JK is in what would comparably be summer mini-camp. Baffling.
I'm in the middle. JFT does well at maintaining possession. He's a good guy to give the team "pause," as Sullivan would say. However, defensively he's poor. BARELY adequate. And we aren't creating chances. I'm don't want to put the onus just on him, but his MAIN job is to get the ball to the playmakers in dangerous positions. I don't think he's doing that. If Holden comes back to even 90% of what he was, he'll take Torres' job anyway.
Torres played a lot of D today. What game were you watching. Holden make take away a spot, but not from Torres. What I take away from the game? We need Landon on the field.
2 things to think about.... 1. Bradley has the potential to be that lone D mid infront of the back 4 that Klinnsman appears to favor. I know he has "2 way" traits right now but with Torres and Holden in the picture he'll have to adapt his game to fit in. I think Bradley can do it if given the chance to grow. Edu doesnt have the same distribution Bradley has. 2. Jozy will continue to sharpen his lone forward skills. Lets not forget that this guy has had essentially a 2 years of inconsitant playing time and he's still only 21. We really have a few talented withdrawn forward/ attacking midfielder hybrids (dempsey, donovan adu shea) but very few true forwards. This lone forward suits our pool best , but it will take time to implement.
Torres made a critical sliding interception in the 6 yard box, tracking back from midfield when Maurice Edu was standing around. Not to blame Mo, who I thought was average today (until the last 10 minutes when he decided he was too tired or frustrated to play soccer), but I don't think Torres can be blamed for his lack of defensive ability today. He needs to cut into the attacking 18 more, but I still think he has been a find over the last three games. (well, "find" in the sense he was banished to soccer siberia by Bob) On the Landon statement, sad how that continues to be the case right? In hindsight, he really aided our movement through the midfield against Costa Rica - something we couldn't accomplish today. I know it's Belgium, infinitely better than Costa Rica, but we were our own enemies with some of those panicked bad passes through midfield. When he's on, he calms the team down. And when he's going through a spell of "meh" form - as he is right now (and adjusting to new coach/new role), it kills us as well. We are way too overly reliant on him still. And when he's not around and we take away Clint Dempsey's ability to score by moving him away from goal - double whammy. Our attack is still built around two players, though Shea, Agudelo and Torres give me hope. (And Adu, once he's back).
Funny. Never stopped the mob from blaming Bob Bradley for dubious offside calls and phantom fouls that cost us goals and results. Why does the new guy get a pass? Maybe. But I think he is far better coming off the bench as a late game sub to calm things down and help kill a game. If we are looking for a goal, whether it be in the first minute or the 90th, he simple doesn't get the job done in terms of creating chances. True. But it also means that there is a gigantic gaping hole in the middle of the park that opposition can either exploit with the counter attack if bunkering like Costa Rica's B team or exploit with possession when they're giving it to us Shawshank style like Mexico and Belgium did. And we won't this cycle, which is why its stupid tactics for Jurgen to force a lone striker formation on the team. One of the biggest complaints people had about Bob was his use of a lone striker at times. Klinsmann is being hailed for it. Don't worry. Klinsmann doesn't either. Steve's assessment is 100% dead on. Against teams that will bunker, a deep lying playmaker is virtually worthless because teams can pick off his distribution easily. You need someone close to the 18 making quick/incisive passes and players making darting runs off the ball to open up a packed defense. Torres isn't comfortable doing this. Against physical/athletic sides, he gets run off the ball or isn't granted the time and space needed for him to play his game, forcing him to take players on the create that space, which he is incapable of doing. Torres belongs on the US team, but only as a tactical sub. If the right situation against the right team comes up, he can be very useful in killing off a game. As a starter, we are a worse team collectively with him on the field than we are with him off the field.