Is Hans Backe the worst coach in the league?

Discussion in 'MLS: General' started by superdave, Aug 23, 2011.

  1. supercooper

    supercooper Red Card

    Jun 23, 2008

    How else can you judge coaches but on the team's performance?
    At the time, Bruce was going through a torrid (bad) stretch over many years.

    First of all, how can you compare straight up Bruce's current performance
    with Galaxy vs. Hyndman. You can't. If Bruce had had SH's players and vice-versa, would Bruce looks as good. Likely not. So you have to have some sort of discounting mechanism. You can't just go off the table.
    Galaxy spend a ton of money on their roster.
     
  2. supercooper

    supercooper Red Card

    Jun 23, 2008
    Its obviously not looking good for Red Bulls at moment, but it is entirely possible that

    (1) Marquez wakes up and starts playing closer to his real level
    (2) Henry and Agudelo start clicking better going forward
    (3) Midfield with McCarty, Bellouchy start playing better, since they
    have been putrid.

    These things are possible, and although they might not make them
    a front runner, it likely would be good enough to get Red Bulls into
    playoffs and maybe get them a first-round win. That would be a disappointment of a season, but perhaps not a disaster.
     
  3. Beerking

    Beerking Member+

    Nov 14, 2000
    Humboldt County
    When was the last time you thought you were wrong?
     
  4. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But if I thought I was wrong about a certain belief, then I wouldn't hold that belief. I don't think it's possible to believe something AND believe you're wrong about it.

    Maybe you're right about that, and maybe I'm right.
     
  5. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My purposes in starting this thread were

    1. To tweak supercooper.
    2. To point out that Backe is, in fact, ********ing up.
    3. Call out the people who have been touting Backe as a great coach over the last 2 years, and even mentioning him as a candidate for the Nats.
     
  6. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Of course that line about Arena being better than the new guys in Colorado and Dallas takes a hit when you look at the coaches in last year's MLS Cup.
     
  7. dawgpound2

    dawgpound2 Member

    Mar 3, 2001
    Los Angeles, CA
    I know they are struggling and maybe Backe gets the ax. But the Red Bulls have only LOST what? 5...6 games?

    It's why I've been screaming for all coaches to be more aggressive on the road. You have to get 3 points out of games in MLS. It's too competitive of a league to be hoping for draws.

    Now, back to NYRB. The single biggest reason for their struggles are summed up in two words. Tim Ream.
     
  8. Dills

    Dills Moderator
    Staff Member

    Philadelphia Union
    United States
    Jun 6, 2006
    Southampton|PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From your lips to Nick Sakiewicz's ears ... or, more specifically, from your fingers to the screen to Nick's eyes.
     
  9. supercooper

    supercooper Red Card

    Jun 23, 2008
    1. I think you need to wait for that. If Bruce can't win the Cup this year,
    it won't be pretty
    2. Its funny that you would draw a conclusion on a new coach to the league and over 1 1/2 year's performance, when I was considering 3 different Bruce coaching assignments over 3 years, 2 of which were coaching in MLS. I think I had better data, and a better argument for sure.
    3. I think Backe looked pretty great until the last 2 months. As dawgpound pointed out, they still only have 6 losses. In fact, before Arena turned the
    corner middle of 2009, Galaxy had a TON of ties....at which time Bruce and players figured out how to turn into wins. I think the Bulls have had a bad stretch and they will improve from here until end of season. I think they are dicey pick in playoffs still however. There is work to do. The McCarty trade was simply bizarre logic, but that is more a GM type decision (even if Backe was involved) vs. criticizing a coach, per se.
     
  10. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What won't be pretty????

    I judge coaches by the decisions they make. If LA doesn't win the cup because of something the players do, it'd be stupid to blame Bruce.

    IMO, a coach's job isn't to win trophies. It's to put his team in a position to win. The players have to execute.
     
  11. Black Tide

    Black Tide Member+

    Mar 8, 2007
    the 8th Dimension
    How anyone could make any judgment on Winter is abusrd to highest order. Has Toronto played well this year? NO. But Winter was given a MONTH in pre season to fix a team that was badly broken. And from the games I have seen since the transfer window opened they do look better. They are just missing a few pieces. Given the full off season and pre season I think they will look much better.

    So why are you blaming Backe now? Everyone seems to forget that before the gold cup they were running over everyone. Then they loose Rodgers to injury. Then the gold cup rolls around, in which they loose Richards, DeRo, Ream, Rafa, Agudelo, And at times Henry, Tanio, and Solli where hurt. Plus you add in the fantastic display of keeping skills by Stone Hands Condoul and Dudley Do-Right in the net...

    When half or more of your first choice players are hurt or unable to play what do you want the coach to do exactly. And even with those issues they still have not lost that many games. I am hard pressed to fault Backe for what has gone on. Though he does need them to get a groove back. Which I think is coming...
     
  12. supercooper

    supercooper Red Card

    Jun 23, 2008
    Having Phil Jackson talent but getting Don Nelson results makes you
    Garry St. Jean :cool:
     
  13. okcomputer

    okcomputer Member

    Jun 25, 2003
    dc
    Red Bulls problems this season are collectively as a team not defending well. They dont pressure the ball in the midfield well and the backline is not fast. Solli is by trade a midfielder and Miller probably should be also. Ream and Marquez have been downright poor since they returned from the Gold Cup and their backups Keel and Mendes were miserable while filling in for them during the Gold Cup. The blunders at the goalkeeping position have cost the team points all year. Not sure if long term Rost could have helped here but he's now out for the next month so who knows if he even plays the rest of the year. Backe has made some bad decisions(Ballouchy, lack of subs) but alot of it has to do with players on the defensive side of the ball underachiving.
     
  14. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's a good thing they're still (as of this second) in playoff position. That way they can still silence everyone by winning MLS Cup. After all, their coach made it perfectly clear what the major trophy was before the season started -- oh wait, damn.
     
  15. Vander Decken IX

    Feb 13, 2011
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    And yet they kicked out the one and only person who brought them to the MLS Cup final.
     
  16. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Bump.

    NYRB are on the outside looking in at the playoffs right now. It'd be...INTERESTING...if DC makes the playoffs on the strength of DeRo's play while NYRB falls short.
     
  17. triplet1

    triplet1 BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 25, 2006
    Yep. I'll say this though, as a neutral the Red Bulls are a good watch. Cringe worthy defensively, yes, but only two teams have more goals this year (KC and Seattle have 43, RBNY 42) -- and RBNY has a game in hand on them.

    They pass the ball as slick as any MLS team, but they leak too many goals for a top MLS team.

    Whatever happens, I hope they give Backe one more year.
     
  18. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    Somewhere in New Jersey, Richie Williams is laughing.
     
  19. lurking

    lurking Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1) The concern is Marquez is now past it.
    2) This one is quite possible
    3) Ballouchy and McCarty have been spare parts by their last 2 teams. Doesn't exactly bode well for their chances to turn it around.
     
  20. metros11

    metros11 Member

    Sep 11, 1999
    Highlands of NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The vast majority of those goals were scored before DeRo departed, and post DeRo era is greatly skewed by the 5-0 shelacking of Toronto.
     
  21. Fah Que

    Fah Que Member

    Sep 29, 2000
    LA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    NY is one spot below playoff right now. That's absurd given the talent level on the team. They should be competing for supporter's shield at this point.

    Of course you blame Backe. Being a scapegoat is part of being a head coach. Any head coach should know what they sign up for.
     
  22. shooter6065

    shooter6065 Member

    Nov 16, 2000
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I don't know if Backe is the worst coach in the league or NYRB have the most overrated players in the league.

    Either way, we have stiff competition between NYRB and TFC as to which team will be the Chicago Cubs of MLS.
     
  23. canyonvue

    canyonvue Member

    Sep 1, 2010
    Salt Lake City
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Why? What's absurd is believing that a name, overpaid "stars" are what make a soccer team work together well and good.

    People really do have to get over their love affair with the "stars".
     
  24. Orange Sounder

    Aug 8, 2009
    Redmond, WA
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    The playoffs was not one of those times.... ;)
     
  25. Gamecock14

    Gamecock14 Member+

    May 27, 2010
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I believe "buying teams" with stars and underachieving is a New York "thing".
    Just look at the Mets, Rangers (briefly), Knicks, and Yankees (except their good) maybe the Jets.
     

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