End of collective bargaining/other anti-union measures plus reactions ...

Yes, it's completely fair. As has been pointed out, you could sell your business, close your business, or fire workers at will.

The employees actually do the work. They make the business happen. They do deserve a bigger piece of the pie. Without them, there is no company, and nobody profits.

Evidently, your business is run with the kind of top-down, dictatorial structure I was talking about. It's interesting to me that people don't seem to mind the concept of benevolent dictatorship in private business. You wouldn't tolerate it in any realm in which you're not the boss, but when you are the boss it's just dandy.

*whoosh*

That's not a voice. You still hold all the cards. You make the decisions, including hiring and firing, salary, hours, benefits, job responsibilities -- it's all you, not them. This is a dictatorship, based on the belief that you are somehow better equipped to make decisions than the people who actually make your business run.

I'm sure you do have a problem with them. I'm sure you'd love the stevedores to wait on you whenever it's convenient for you. 2 minutes late, 5 minutes late, 10 minutes late... what's the difference? They should be on your schedule, not the other way around.

I'm sure that a worker insisting on actually taking the whole break to which he's entitled just seems outrageous to you, but it seems very reasonable to me. This is a weak and pathetic anti-union example you've come up with.

 

Reading your whole little diatribe made me wonder why people in your world would ever stick their neck out to employ anyone. If the economy continues to tank, and in my industry, that's exactly what it is doing, and I have to close the doors due to lack of work, my employees can go on their way, collect unemployment, and get another job somewhere else.

I would be ruined after dumping all of my personal savings and retirement into keeping them employed until the storm blows over. If we were sitting at a bar having a drink, we are equals. When I took the risk in employing them and we are at work, I am the boss.

Just out of curiosity, what do you do for a living?

 

We're not really talking about small businesses here, are we? You own a business that you invested a lot in personally, so therefore unions are bad? Is that really the conversation you think this nation is having?

 

All of my experiences with unions in my 20 years and my father's 50 years in this industry have all been bad. I look at the SB5 bill being debated here in Ohio and I listen to both sides and wonder which side has actually read the bill, or is reading from a card given them at a union meeting.

Again, what do you do for a living?

 

I used to be in an union whan I was in the Military, they would get us some good benifits when they could.

 

Your dealings with unions have been bad, because you are in the position of wanting to compel union members to do what you want, not what they want. So of course you don't like the unions - they don't exist to look after your interests. You depend on those union workers, I'm sure. Your business probably wouldn't run without them. Yet you get miffed when they want to organize and fight for their own say in their own workplace. Because you are heavily financially invested in your own business, so therefore that has something to do with these unions who are not your employees at all? Doesn't play.

Have you ever been a member of a union? Have you ever needed the help of a union to protect your job, wages, benefits, rights? Obviously not. If you ever lost a job, you'd just go on unemployment and find another job, and everything would be roses. It's so easy for workers, you know. They have nothing at stake. Not hard like it is for government and corporations.

I am self-employed.

 

Oh yeah, that's right...you're the conservative who is a member of the lucky sperm club, right? A real go-getter in the grand tradition of Ivanka Trump and Paris Hilton.

 

It's a voice alright, but it's not a vote.

I'm not sure what this argument is about. The founder/owner of a small business is a dictator. Naturally, the company's employees will wish to influence the dictator. If they think a union is the best way to do so, then they will unionize if possible.

Nothing nefarious about any of that.

 

Doesn't play? I am not in a position to want to compel union members to do anything and I don't know where that comes from.

Please explain how I depend on union workers. Why wouldn't my company run without union workers? You aren't making any sense or talking out of your *ss. I have seen the way union shops in my industry work and it isn't something I would want to be a part of.

I'll send it back to you. What union have you been a member of? Surely you speak from such a position of authority you have held a union position, right?

 

Wow, even for you Stupordave, that's just a ridiculous personal attack. Not beneath a poster like you, but just rude and scummy.

 

You just said you want union workers to unload your delivery truck during their lunch break. You don't depend on union workers to unload your delivery truck?

And if you're not dependent on union workers, then you're the one talking out of your ass. I guess "I have 20 years of experience with unions" doesn't actually mean that you have any experience with unions. Rather, you've seen things and heard things about other businesses who deal with unions. Forgive me, I interpreted your words to mean you've actually dealt with unions, meaning you've employed the services of union workers or of companies who employ union workers. In which case, you've depended upon union labor.

Which is it? Have you depended upon union labor, or have you not actually had experience dealing with unions? Have you found unions troubling to your business, or are you talking out of your ass based on hearsay and prejudices?

Yes, I was a member of a union for about 7 years. Which is 7 more years of experience with a union than you've had in any capacity, apparently.

 

I, too, have been a union member for many years. Both in an automotive union and an entertainment union.

Unions are by and large DREADFUL. Workers are generally lazy and unmotivated. The unions I have been in are just horrific for both management and the average worker.

The abuses by union workers I have seen is enough to make anyone think twice about how we should proceed as a nation in how we deal with them.

 

Entertainment workers are lazy and unmotivated? Are you talking about a BTL union or something?

 

No, actually there, I was talking almost exclusively about the automotive unions. Dreadful, just horrific.

 

But BTL Hollywood unions are not much better. A tiny bit, but not much. Nothing for you to get excited about.

 

Wrong again on multiple levels. the union shop depends on me because they aren't competitive on unless they outsource their parts. So, I guess
you are taking that as meaning I am "dependent" on union workers.

being a member of McDonalds local 111 there in Berkley doesn't mean much in the real world. Union labor wins contracts through unfair bidding practices in Ohio all the time, the biggest in the near past was the construction of Huntington Park in Columbus. I am doing work for a regional bank chain but they are requiring union labor to install. They asked me to get a number from a union shop to compare installation prices. The union shop was 50% higher than mine. That bank will be charging it's customers higher fees to cover the added expenses of union labor. i can tell you more if you would like.

I also hate the teachers union. I have two kids in wheelchairs that go to public schools. My oldest kept getting in trouble for not having her work at her desk on time. When we went in to meet with the teacher, principal and a rep from the district, we found out the teacher was putting my daughters assignments in a folder that was on a shelf higher than she could reach from her wheelchair and then getting mad when she would ask a classmate for help. I was livid, as was the district administrator. Guess what? That teacher had been a problem at other schools as well but couldn't be fired because of all of the union red tape.

So you can pontificate from your position of fighting for the American Worker all you want, but I know you have no idea what you are talking about. K?

Stop putting words in my mouth and stop accusing me of prejudice when, in fact, that's EXACTLY what you were doing.

 

BTW, after yesterday's elections the unions are 0 fer 2 in Wisconsin after spending millions and mobilizing members.

 

I've worked in a few union shops.

One was awful. If you so much as looked at equipment that you weren't authorized to look at you would face heavy disciplinary action, even if like me you had designed said equipment. Management and labor were constantly at odds and constantly bitter at each other. Because of that, union heavies would make sure everyone took their smoke breaks, regardless of how busy it was or even if you smoked. It was really stifling and I was glad to get out.

I went to another place across town in the same industry, ultimately even owned by the same multinational corporation. While it was also a union shop, the atmosphere was congenial. The union advocated for labor but it didn't seem adversarial to management. We took breaks when we wanted and busted our ass when it was needed. The shop, in those days, was a good employer and their product did well and they made money.

Which is a long way of saying that every environment is different. Characterizing unions as the bad guy is easy, especially if you're predisposed to being an asshole, but it's way too simplistic.

 

Hmmm. My public high school boots out teachers every year. If the teachers don't deliver, they don't come back the next year. And by don't deliver I don't mean in the obvious sense like the idiot teacher whom you describe. I mean don't deliver in a more subtle sense, as in they aren't in total command of the material or are poorly organized or can't control the classroom properly.

I'm not saying that your horrible teacher doesn't exist, but she doesn't exist in MY district. And that's a district with teachers unions.

So perhaps it is not unions that are the problem but crappy management in your district?

 

Don't you mean 2 out of 7? They won two elections yesterday...I guess you must have missed them. Hey, how's Obama's scuttlin-deal news story hunting going for ya?

Oops, actually, the unions are 3 out of 8 (the Democrat won re-election last week too!)

 

You don't think that goes for employers as well?

 

Of course it does. Anybody who's ever worked more than one job knows that some employers are better than others. Are you trying to make a point?

 

It does, but Democrats don't go into office and try to take away the rights of employers to hire, fire, purchase equipment, get capital for expansion and investment, etc...that's the whole point of this thread.

 

LOL! No, 0 fer 2. The goal was to regain control was it not?

And despite all the resources thrown into the elections the Dems defeated a Republican in a Democratic district and another incumbent that was having an affair with a 25 year old. And don't forget next week 2 fleebaggers have their own recall elections.