It's more about knowing they can do it, rather than they must do it. I think greed is probably the wrong word. Jealously, coupled with a complete lack of respect for anyone but themselves, is a bigger factor. If you get into a midset of thinking that stealing is OK, the only thing stopping you is the fear of getting caught.
They need to work on their dataset. I went looking on that map for several incidents that I know happened in nicer areas of London (Crouch End, Notting Hill, etc.); none are listed on that map.
So I'm struggling to see what point you are actually making here? Nobody (to my knowledge) disputes that it started with a genuine protest in Tottenham about the death of a man who was shot by the police. The point of the matter is what are the concerns which have led people in Ealing to do this or Croydon. These are not areas beset by poverty, relative or otherwise.
That if you continue to ratchet up inequality - this is what you'll get. People predicted this. Now it is here, we'd like to pretend it was just some chance event. But I am willing to put a tenner on the stats nerds finding come interesting correlations in the weeks to come.
perhaps. it is very difficult to look at. For instance hackney is being gentrified at pace - most of my friends moved to e5 once islington/clerkenwell got pricey. Take a street - spots like 3 sisters pub are super dodge - and you can expect to be offered crack at the offie round the corner. yet on that same street my friends flat went on the market at 450K. how they hope to measure that shit i don't know.
Understood. I live in just such a neighborhood. Houses immediately around my block were going for $500k-$600k two winters ago as we had five armed (with gun) carjackings in ~20 days.
Well to an extent then you need to look at this on a cost benefit analysis. These riots have probably cost somewhere in the low hundreds of millions when you consider all the damage to property (ABI says damage in tens of millions), disruption and extra policing. The cuts we need to make in this country are in the tens of billions. This sort of isolated unrest may have to be a price worth paying.
Props to you for posting this. I am sure these are precisely the sort of discussions that are being had - but which will never be articulated in public.
But what makes it more the case is that these riots are not touching the people they are even potentially intended to. Some kids said the riots were to "show the rich we can do what we want to". By the rich they meant corner shop owners in Croydon, hard working local business. It's not exactly Goldman Sachs. You're not going to put fear into the hearts of the plutocrats by smashing up Hackney, Toxteth or St Pauls. Decision makers don't go to those areas and basically don't care.
When you've been able to illegally download music, films, games and even books for free your whole life the distinction between right and wrong must be clouded. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntePhewVy_w"]White Guys in Orpington, UK Looting Game Video game store - 2011‏ - YouTube[/ame]
nsfw [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNmQBx2WyN0&feature=player_embedded"]Truly extraordinary speech by fearless West Indian woman in face of Hackney and London riots‏ - YouTube[/ame]
I'll keep looting till I get caught One kid says 'Why are you going to miss the opportunity to get free stuff.... I'll keep doing this till I get caught.."
I thought this was an interesting analysis of the riots http://www.leftfootforward.org/2011/08/a-crowd-psychology-analysis-of-the-riots/
"No one should condone violence. They were criminal, criminal." That was Thatcher after Brixton exploded after years of attack by the police and National Front. Thirty years later later and little has changed.
London's burning "It's a phuking girl, you kunts." Well, that justifies everything. So, those demonstrating all over the country then, must have been graduate students?
Re: London's burning I don't even know what we're supposed to be looking at in that video. Where are the eye witness accounts...if this is the so called catalyst? Where are the pictures\interviews\reports of this 'girl' and her injuries? Why hasn't any of the other yobs mentioned her when asked why they're looting etc?
These aren't race riots. If it wasn't for their actual actions, it'd be a fine example of multicultural unity.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fcnm9Ie_Tz8"]Inside Story - London's burning‏ - YouTube[/ame]
There was someone arrested for stealing 2 t-shirts from, (IIRC), Primark, worth about £8. Greed??? I don't think so. If I can just correct you about one point though. These people don't have any respect for themselves either. That's half the trouble. As to the reasons in general, in all honesty if you stopped 100 of them and ask them detailed questions you'd get 100 different answers but it boils down to... THIS! As I said, there was an interesting discussion on Newsnight last night involving Kelvin MacKenzie and a rapper called 'Reveal' who, tbh, came across as a bit of an idiot on some points but he made one interesting argument. He said he'd been listening to a stock market analyst that morning and the guy had said, People should use fear in the market to make a profit. Now, you tell me... how is THAT different from what these kids are doing? They're using the police and the public's fear to 'make a profit'. Of course, there's one big difference between the kids and those on the markets... THEIR 'profit' is a lot smaller. Yeah, but that's always been the case. It's always the poor who suffer from crime more than the rich. The biggest victims of the gun culture infecting the 'yoof' in some of our inner cities are other young people. What's actually quite interesting about this is that it all started with the shooting of this Mark Duggan character and he'd been targeted because it looks like he WAS carrying a gun, (whether he fired it is rather beside the point). Quite what's behind that we don't know yet but I'd imagine someone's told the police he was carrying and they've stopped him to take it off him and nick him. That's also what annoys me about Darcus Howe mouthing off, implying the police got up in the morning and thought, 'Let's go shoot ourselves a darkie'. If it was HIS grandchild that was killed by a stray bullet in one of these shoot-outs he'd be the FIRST to bleat about the police not doing enough to get guns off the street.
This is what happens when down-and-out youth see a pie successfully put in the face of Rupert Murdoch down at the parliament ... ... especially on summer break.