I intentionally left Hong Myung Bo off the list, and swept Kim Tae Young along with it. Kim Nam Il has better playmaking and field vision, better instinctive feel, and stronger physicality. Lee Chun Soo has a quick first step on the ball and has decent dribbling. Some of that is MF v FW, but Kim Nam Il has by the more complete game. This is not a diss on Lee Chun Soo; merely a statement of reality. If I were building a team, I would pick Kim Nam Il ahead of Lee Chun Soo.
Not so much "complaining", more mentioning the fact that he's a good player that for some reason or whatever hasn't had the desire/offer to go to a European club. Anyway, according to the Suwon website he is 182cm tall. Consider a few other big-name goalkeepers (courtesy of the 2002 Fifa World Cup website http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/02/en//index.html ) Fabien Barthez - 183cm Iker Casillas - 184cm Victor Baia - 184cm Thomas Sorensen - 185cm He's not that tall, but he's hardly a dwarf either... and he's certainly got the ability.
Yeah but asian players aren't going to get much look. Only way i could see a Asian GK in Europe is A) If he's bout 6'4-6'5 B) Youth C) Gifted And 182 CM GKs is considered small these days. 182 is about what? barely 6 feet tall? Barthez atleast was/is a good GK, Asian players aren't going to get much look. Lee Won Jae is a good GK and my thinking is that european teams would think of Lee as a #2-#3 String GK. Lee Chun Soo is a MUCH MUCH talented offensive player than Kim Nam Il. And Why would you take KIm over Lee when Chun Soo is younger? I would take Chun Soo over Nam Il when it comes to the "Playmaking" ability (Which u think Nam Il is better at which i disagree) and Chun Soo imo is faster player. Of course Nam Il would be more physical because Chun Soo is a small player. I look at this way, Hong retired from the national square, Kim Tae Young is still in it and he still plays better football than most other korean defenders. I would think it doesn't make much of a difference though if you put Tae Young and Hong instead of not putting them in the list.
sigh.... first of all, how are u comparing these two players when lee is a winger and kim is a defensive midfeilder? and u say lee chun soo is more talented offensive player then kim nam il, and thats because lee's position is all about offense but kim, his position is more of a defense then offense.. it would be great if he also had an awesome offensive talent and he still DOES need SOME, but he doesnt really need A LOT of offensive skills as long as he plays defensive midfeilder.. also, when lee chun soo played in the playermaker position(centre mid) once in real sociedad, do u even kno how much criticism he got from his teammates? hes a great winger for korea, but hes not so great when it comes to play making.. imo, kim nam il's short passing skills are much better then lee.. and everyones got their opinion.. u got urs, i got mine, and the other guy has his.. u cant argue and say that his wrong just because u disagree..
Like 179cm Yoshikatsu Kawaguchi who joined Portsmouth when he was 26? Granted he didn't play that often for them and he's now playing in the Danish premier league. I would imagine some clubs have previously looked at Lee Woon-Jae, probably in the months immediately following the World Cup, but it seems that either they weren't interested or he's not interested in a move. Does anyone know if he speaks English, or at least another major European language (French)? Organising the defence is a huge part of a goalkeeper's job and if he's unable to communicate well then he'll definitely be unattractive to Euro sides.
yea, i think reason y u dont c any korean defenders or goalies in foreign clubs are mostly because of their communication skills.. communication takes a HUGE ROLE when it comes to being a defender or a goalie... because even if ur a great defender or a goalie urself, without teamwork in ur defense line as a whole or the teamwork between the defense and the goalie, the whole defensive skill on ur team will just be straight up wack.. communication is just something that our guys need to prepare before thinking about the move..
Saying Ahn's overrated is a total misinterpretation.... He may not be the best player by a long shot but he has proven to be Korea's most clutch player.
let me enlighten you guys.. the best player is a toss up between Song Chong-Guk, Park Ji-Sung and Lee Yong-Pyo, and Yoo Sang-Cheol. Seol would make the list if he plays as well as he used to before he got injured. If i had to choose one, it'd definitely be yoo sang cheol (Korean Davids), closely followed by Lee YP. Korea would have never lost to maldives, or guam or saipen or whoever if Yoo Sang Cheol was healthy. Things will change as he ages. Park Ji-Sung will be post yoo sang cheol when he gets stronger and becomes more stable. But i see the most potential in Song Chong-Guk and Park Ji-Sung. Lee Cheon-Soo will become another lee dong-Guk. Expect to see Lee as a sub. He will play much better as a sub than a starter. And Ahn Jeong What? (that was a joke). he's way overrated. Like the thread starter said, he's like beckham. He has nice shots, but Lee Dong Guk had nice (if not best) shots too.
Song Chong Guk, Lee YP and Park Ji-Sung (who plays defensive midfield, which requires just as much communication).
ahn and lee dong guk both had nice shots, but ahn has the best techniques in asia.. thats what make him to be different from other korean players.. and he "might be" overrated "a lil" cuz of the media, but hes not WAY overrated.. and park ji sung's original position is defensive mid, but it looks like u never wtch his games at psv cuz he doesnt play defensive mid there.. he either plays as a sahdow striker, cetre mid, or right winger.. he played as a right wingback in the last game for a few miniutes but its been a looooong time since he played the defensive mid position..
ahn scored what 5 goals in perugia in a season? he scored two goals in the WC, probably the least goals scored by a center forward that went to the semis in the world cup. and Lee dong-Guk had much better shots than ahn. He was hailed as the up-coming super star, who would solve all korea's problems. but it became clear when hiddink took over. strikers who cannot play defense, or does not run, has limitations. Why do you think Hiddink tested Cha Du-Ri for the longest time? because he saw limitations in Ahn. Ahn would have been talking to Yoon Jeong-Hwan (player very similar to him, good technique, no power, no stamina) on the bench, if Hwang Sun-Hong was 2 years younger. even if i give you park ji-sun, i'm still correct in saying that the best korean players playing in europe are defenders.
Your observations are for the most part reasonable. But the #1 Korean talent/potential talent in Europe, Park Ji-Sung, is an offensive player, so how do you conclude that the best Korean players over there are defenders?
Yoo Sang Chul is a GREAT player and i have no idea HOW i left him out. But i do think he STILL is the best mid-fielder, but not sure if he's the best korean footballer. He's getting up their in terms of age. And he's not Korean's Davids, he's more like korean's Bryan Robson...Yoo could have played in a mid-level european football team but i dunno why he never went to europe... Skyhigh, i'll give u that much credit, yes there positions are different but Kim should still have some offensive game. Kim Nam Il might be a good defensive mid-fielder but he is still a "mid-fielder" and should have some sort of a offensive game. The guy is not just good in offensive areas. I guess part of the reason why i said Chun Soo over Nam Il is because i liked his natural ability more and has more potential. When you talk potential, you got to mention Choi Tae Uk's name Without a Doubt. Korean football is bright with guys like Tae Uk, Chun Soo, Chong Gug, Seol Ki Hyeon, Cha Do Ri, Park Ji Sung, etc.
Relax. You are probably a deep rooted Lee Chun Soo fan. Let me elaborate more fully why, although decent, he is not an essential offensive player for the NT. The offensive lineup that right now is best directed to goal production will be comprised of Park Ji-Sung, Seol and Ahn. Park and Ahn are creative types who set up others and can pick off goals themselves. Seol is a machine who is less likely to get knocked down by a more physical defender. They complement each other. Lee Chun Soo and Cha are for now benchwarmers behind them and should come on as subs until they further develop. Cha because he needs to further develop his skill set and involvement in the game. Lee is a small guy with decent but not exceptional speed (compare Henry or Owen). However, he has not shown the instinctive goal production that has kept a small player like Pippo Inzaghi on a high level. And he is less likely than Park or Ahn to set up others.
do stats say everything? no. and earlier in this thread, i posted a long ass thread about y ahn couldnt do all that great in serie-a so if u want, go read that. ahn doesnt have problems with stamina anymore, also hes more like a technique-based player then power type of players like vieri or etc.. its pretty hard to have both unless ur like vieri, ronaldo, henry or any one of those "world's best forwards." and hakan sukur from turkey, who was also a semi-finalist was the main center forward and only managed to score 1 goal and that was against korea when the korean defense ridiculously broke apart.. ilhan mansiz scored 3 goals but 2 of them were from the game against korea which happened because of the mistakes by our guys then his OWN creation.. and he was a sub earlier in the world cup.. also, i have a lot of love for yp lee and i really hate to say this but u gotta understand that he doesnt really have anyone to compete against for his position in the team.. who else plays left wingback in PSV other then young pyo? sure he plays great, he starts every time and his performances are awesome, but if psv actually had some other left wingbacks, then it wouldnt have been so easy for him to be a starter from the START till now..
are you kidding me. the forwards you listed don't play any defense as well. except maybe henry. ronaldo virtually disappears and pops up to score and disappears again. They are listed up there because their technique, scoring ability, power is 100 times better than what Ahn has. that's why people said he was "disappointing" compared to Ahn's tremendous "success" for scoring two goals. i dont believe this... you accuse lee YP for not being good enuf, and then say that a player who failed to stay in Europe is better? The main reason Ahn couldnt stay in europe was not because of teams fighting over his ownership. it was because he wasn't good enough. He couldnt find a team that would pay him over 1.5 million Euros (or something like that). And how much did Lee YP get? 4 million Euros? also, dont forget the fact that Ahn is much more marketable than Lee YP.
Let me toss my hat into the ring. I'll have to agree with whoever said up there that Seol, Lee Young-pyo and Park are our best players. All three possess the physical traits needed to battle in Europe (the latter two are short but powerful). All three have the technique to make them stand out. And finally, they are professionals, which cannot be understated. They are shut-up-and-play type players and Hiddink certainly knew who he was dealing with when he decided to take Lee and Park over Lee Chun-soo or Kim Dong-hyun to take to PSV. We have many players that are physical but lack technique (Cha Du-ri, Choi Yong-soo, Kim Nam-il though he improving), many players that are the opposite (Ahn, Lee Chun-soo, Lee Dong-guk), and plain fools (Ko Jong-su). That this trio excels in all three areas makes them the best Korean players and the reason why they are enjoying success in Europe while guys like Lee CS and Cha are still adjusting. Cha reportedly isn't doing all that badly with Eintracht Frankfurt but his goal record frankly sucks. The only other player I'd throw out there is Yoo Sang-chul who I feel at one point would have been better than Lee YP or Park, and still could rumble with some of the best.
no im not kidding u. yea maybe the forwards i listed dont play any defense as well, but are they the key players of their clubs and NTs? hell yeah. name a forward that does the offense and defense PERFECT like u expect ahn to be. and ahn is also all about technique, and he can score fairly well compare to other korean strikers. and progress by hakan sukur WAS disappointing, but progress by ahn wasnt. sure he didnt score a lot of goals, but he scored when korea really needed him to score, and his performaces in most of the games were pretty decent. well, either believing it or not is totally up to u, but when the hell did i ever acuse lee for not being good enough? i even said that i love him more then any other korean fans and i respect him for doing well in psv. all i said was that he didnt really have anyone to compete against in PSV to fight for the left wingback position. if u disagree with this, then thats ur opinion but i got mine as well. so ur saying that if psv had another decent left wingback, lee would still have been dominated that position in psv as easy as he really did? i dunno about that. and ahn did have a lot of opportunities to play in europe after the world cup. and perugia never released him out of the team. after the world cup, number of european clubs (fulham, psg, and etc) made an offer for ahn to perugia, which means that ahn wouldve been transferred if he went back to perugia, but ahn refused to go back cuz he thought it was gonna hurt his "pride." and after all that drama, PM happened to by ahn and it almost made it impossible for european clubs to buy him, cuz PM kept on rejecting the bid from mallorca, and valladolid also made an offer to ahn, but he rejected them cuz they were asking ahn's agent to look for a sponsor for the team.. and he also wouldve been playing in blackburn by now if it wasnt for that stupid work permit. and he even had the chance to go to Kaiserslautern last season when his loan contract with shimizu was over but he rejected Kaiserslautern's offer. you can call him an idiot of being stubborn, stupid, or whatever but thats not my point anyways.
ok. i'll drop most of the argumen except this point. the bottome line is, no body was willing to pay over 2 million Euros for him.
Park Ji Sung needs to get some meat...have you guys seen him in the PSV games? Reminds me of Ahn with Peruvia...falls like 10 times a game.
Kaiserslautern was willing to pay, and they sent the official contract for him to sign but ahn rejected them..
Give me Lee Woon Jae over Barthez anytime. I'm quite impressed with Lee's two-footedness and his consistency. Barthez on the other hand is too left-footed and is as erratic as hell. My top 3 Korean players: 1) Lee Woon Jae 2) Ahn Jung Hwan 3) Song Jung Gook Perugia killed Ahn and he should not have played for such a defensive team. Had he played in Spain he would have flourished. It's a shame because many Italian pundits saw him as a better player than Hidetoshi Nakata (I posted a comparison between Nakata and Ahn long time ago when Ahn first joined Perugia. At that time an analyst at the Italian football show "90 minutes" rated Ahn better than Nakata in passing, shooting, and dribbling.) Too bad he took a few steps back and plays in J-league now. If I were him I'd be looking for a European club. What a waste of talent... Between Ahn and Seol it's hard to compare who's better because the two have different styles so it's like comparing apples and oranges. Ahn is more of a technician and Seol is more of a power forward. Song JG is one hell of a player. He has the complete package -- skills, speed, flair, workrate, and a great football sense.
I'm with you on that, which is one reason I don't want to see him as a "wild card" in the Olympics. The guy's taking a lot over the years, and it's too much too ask him to play the Olympics and the Asian Cup. I reckon Athens should be used to get other players more experience. Yoo just might have have enough left in him to lead the team in 2006, but it's not a good idea to overuse him before that.