It´s the players not the coach. Get good players. Fire most of what we have ... and then we have nothing. So there is the problem. Our players play in low level teams or at best in mid level teams. They are hacks of which there are thousands around the world plying their trade in clubs like Fulham, Sporting Lisbon, Anderlecht et al which are there to see if they can trip the winners. That´s all. Can we trip the winners? Can we beat ... Fulham?
A tad harsh. Fulham, for example, is not a low or mid-level team. They happen to play in the EPL, which is a rather elite league. Anderlecht and Lisbon are the elite teams in their respective national leagues. Americans tend to fall victim to a mentality where if you're not suiting up for Manchester United, you're a hack. The truth is that quality world-class players can be found in any number of leagues, including MLS. The issue for the US, in my view, is that the teams that truly compete for the World Cup have at least a handful of players playing for the elite clubs in the elite leagues. The clubs listed on our roster aren't all that different from Holland, as an example, outside of those handful of players that make a good WC level team into a team capable of making the semi-finals. In terms of talent, we've a player pool made up of those players who are more than capable of filling out a quality squad. We lack elite talent, but outside of those 8 or so teams who can truly compete for the World Cup, who doesn't?!
Please direct me to these articles. That's plural. Please keep the exaggerations to a minimum. Bob was a decent coach - the playeers seemed to like toplay for him. Things stagnated. That's about it. It was a a good time for a change (although I wish Klinsmann/Gulati would have figured this out after the World Cup). I can see Superdave's points re Klinsmann, but Sausueta is also correct re staff. If Klinsi can find a tactical assistant equal to Loew, we should be in good hands.
You're missing my point....in the global game, Fulham is not a mid-level team. If you're a player on Fulham, you're playing on a rather elite club. That doesn't make you a "hack" in the global player pool. There are only a handful of clubs capable of winning a UEFA Champions League, just as there are only a handful of national teams capable of wining a World Cup. That doesn't mean those are the only teams with legitimate non-hack talent......
Great team spirit & morale... Thats what lacking with Bradley, Bradley didn't believe in the American player, reason why Bradley bunker-in too much, never went for the kill vs England, Bradley hated using two forwards (note: Findley), never learned from his mistake & repeated same mistake over-&-over again. Bradley was far worse than Arena & Sampson. Dempsey seem more of Primadonna with Bradley. Players seem less in control with Bradley.
i see both sides of this argument. but i tend to lean more to cris09's and jsantarita's position, because many of us fans expect the usmnt to be competing with those top teams when we play them. those teams have a significant number of champions league players. our players are hacks by comparison. and some of us seem to be hoping that the klinsmann name and magic will somehow help us measure up. while hoping he can, i myself share superdave's doubts.
Given our player pool, any expectation that the US can compete with the consistent WC title contenders (Germany, Spain, Brazil, Argentina, etc.) is misguided. A simple coaching change isn't going to make that happen. You're right, if you compare a Manchester United to Anderlecht or Sporting, they'll look like a lesser team with lesser players. Same if you want to compare Sweden to Brazil or Spain. The next step for the USMNT, in my view, isn't to suddenly vault into that elite class of national teams competing for the World Cup. Many, including myself, believe our current talent pool, if properly challenged and coached, is capable of being a Round of 16 type team. That's not "hack" class. But you're point is well taken that beyond that is a matter of talent. I'm just one who doesn't expect a magic wand that turns Diskerud into Messi.....
In the global game? Ok...I get your point, but Fulham is still a mid-level team. I would not believe that the Messi's, Ronaldo's or Rooney's of the world would ever consider moving to Fulham. That, to me, makes them a mid-level club - globally.
Mid means middle. So are there just as many clubs playing at a level above Fulham as there are below?! A Messi, Ronaldo, or Rooney, that elite talent class, tends to limit their club choices to what, perhaps 5-6 clubs on the global scale, at least until their well past their sell-by date. I do think you're right that the US isn't going to truly be a WC title contender until that class of talent, whatever you want to call it, is suiting up for us.........
You're changing the thesis. Are you saying the US doesn't have the players, or are you saying Klinsmann is the wrong guy?
Dave, I think you are completely and totally correct here, but definitely not super. I think Bradley is more tactical than Klinsmann and Klinsmann will likely get a very strong staff. Klinsmann said when the US lost to Germany in 2002 that Germany was better on the day because they believed they could win and the US didn't. That is the same thing that Arena brought to the US team in 1999 the belief that they could compete and Klinsmann brought that to Germany and will bring that to the US. The question is how does Klinsmann perform without Low/Loew? The other question is who does Klinsmann surround himself with. Klinsmann is a fine hire if we put the correct other people in place. Removing Bradley was the correct move even if it meant we put Sigi or Kreis in to run the team. 2 cycles is too much for the Arena's and Bradley's. I'm thinking other coaches might do well on a second cycle, but who knows (I actually think part of the problem is that the first two years of a new cycle are so meaningless that unless you have a new coach building new ideas the team starts to stagnate. This isn't the case in UEFA).
If you want to put it in context - globally, I stated that I do see the point if you want to include the Ecuadorian League, the Saudi League or the Honduran League and what not. But though Fulham may be a traditionally rich club with a great following and financial security for the time being; I would be very hesitant to put them anywhere near "Top Club" status. My point was that simply because they do play in the Prem, it should not elevate them above other clubs in Belgium or Portugal simply because of their location. Anyway, I think Klinsmann will do well in the long run if he is given time. At least I hope he does. All the best of luck, US fans.
Your hatred had nothing to do with him taking one of the most spectacular dives in World Cup history and getting away with it? Complete with landed tuna simulation. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB7Y33VteME&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]Klinsmann's dive in WC 1990‏ - YouTube[/ame]
The "flopping fish" was over the top, but are you serious with that kind of challenge? Late, no effort to play the ball, studs up. I don't care whether you actually make contact or not. That was about as cynical as they come.
I dont EXPECT Mix to turn into Messi but there is atleast some hope there especailly if the rumors turn out to be true that Man U is interested in him. Which IMHO is another knock against BB. Mix had some really good minutes in friendlies building upto the Gold Cup but even with Holden out, didn't get the nod for the Gold Cup. I wonder why that was? Sir Alex shows an interest but BB didn't? I guess we'll see what JK does...
Oh I agree. Wrong use of the word "dive." Embellishment would be much more accurate. He acted like he'd been hit by a Voldemort spell rolling around down there.
My thought is this.....Bob was essentially a 5-year interim coach. As such, he preferred to go with the known quantity over the unknown to avoid risk. Younger players are riskier. Experienced players, even with limitations, are by nature less risky as they're more predictable. I'm expecting Klinsmann to be a bit more comfortable taking risks, with the goal of getting those younger players ready for a World Cup. Bob felt the pressure to win every game to keep his job. Klinsmann won't....at least initially. We're likely to be a bit more unpredictable and the results will likely involve surprises (good and bad) along the way. I think we're about to see a bit more of an aggressive approach in terms of a generational change in the team.......
Lol on the Klinsmann dive. A bit of trivia. Do you all know the goalscoring celebration that is "the dive"? A player scores and then throws himself forward to the ground like Superman? It was supposedly invented by Klinsy after he got some crap by the English media for "diving" when he first moved to Spurs. Here is the video of it. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8Bx8Jc2HrQ"]Klinsmann‏ - YouTube[/ame]
We had this discussion over in MLS over Zakuani's, Morales', and Ferriera's injuries. Does contact or injury dictate whether a card is given. In that case, yes it was a dive, but the guy deliberately tried to plant his studs into his knees and he did have to move out of the way. I'm torn on that--it was a dive, but if intent and dangerous play is factored in, that definitely a card. Perhaps a yellow would have been more appropriate. On the other hand, I can't tell--was that Italy Germany was playing? If so, disregard this post and well done, Jurgen. Give those Italians a taste of their own medicine!
Yes, I recall that time as well. It was painful watching Germany with Mertesacker and Huth (or Metzelder) at CB playing a very high defensive line protected only with one DM. The idea of all attack was crazy given the lack of speed in the back four (except Lahm) and while I agree entirely with your comments about Ballack ( for me, one of the most tactically astute players there is) it certainly didn't take a genius to realize what was needed. I view that period of time as the classic argument against those who say, "all we need to do is attack and everything will be fine!". Well, if all you do is attack with a back four that doesn't have the speed to deal with the inevitable counters, the attack better score 4 - 5 goals a game.