Ya.... I saw the dude, man... on Charlie and the Chocolate Factory..... He's the candy man. The Candy man can!
Who can take a good team? Let the scorers leave? Bring in injured Serbians And Frenchies on the cheap? Stevie can! Our Stevie, he can!
I'd have told my friends not to chant YSA, and then rolled my eyes at idiots who did and then first got kicked out, and then got arrested for being dicks about getting kicked out. But that's just me. Obviously, YSA is very important to a few people in New England. Can't figure out why myself. Nor can Shalrie Joseph.
They're alien to, say, Roma and Fulham as well. The big chant at Craven Cottage is an occasional "come on Fulham" that sort of swells like frog croaks and then drifts to another part of the stadium. There aren't many teams with non-stop chanting anywhere. At Stadio Olimpico, the incredible thing is just how focused everyone is on the game for 45 minutes each half.
Wow...I'm completely and totally flabbergasted by people who continually bring up YSA as the reason for the Fort Angst!!! But, I guess that's the easiest way for those in LOVE with everything Bob Kraft to justify an idiotic, disrepectful and planned attack on die hard fans!! Listen Morgue dwellers...if all it takes for you not to show up anymore to the Fuxboro Man Mall Stadium is to hear vulgar chants and YSA, then by all means, I hope those fans who do yell out YSA, actually keep doing it.
This might sound crazy, but have you ever thought that it's the Fort's fault? I know that Team OPS took it too far, but trying to retaliate with protests makes the Fort look terrible. I know this is baseball, but do any of the Yankee fans remember when management instituted a beer ban for the bleachers? It was because of the Bleacher Creatures correct? They were angered by this. Beer was apart of baseball, just like chants are a part of soccer. But the Creatures didn't stage protests. Or walkout during the 3rd inning after a period of silence. They just toned it down a bit and in 2009 the Yanks lifted the beer ban. Just try to comply with what management wants for awhile and if it doesn't work, do whatever the hell you want.
Since you seemingly haven't read the other 29 pages of this thread, I'll recap (again) just for you. 1. The protest was NOT about the right to swear. 2. The protest was NOT about one single event, but 16 years of mistreatment. If the majority of the Supporter's Groups members AGREE that YSA should be eliminated, then how is it their fault? A few renegade, non-Supporter's-Group-members sitting in the Fort continued the chant, and the FO took it out on the SGs, because they are an easy target. Just. Plain. Wrong.
Not following you at all on this comment -- You would like the swearing to continue to force more non-Fort fans out? You want anyone not in the Fort to not show up in order to preserve the right to swear? You want fewer fans at the game? You think Morgue Dwellers(?) are against you? I suspect (and hope) that is not what you meant, but please do elaborate. `
Only individuals affiliated with the SGs were targeted? What about the "renegades" you call out - were none of them cautioned/ejected/arrested? If the SGs are, as you put it, an "easy" target, then what made the the "renegades" a more difficult target at the time of the incident? I am having a more difficult time understanding what actually happened the more this discussion goes on. This incident, combined with other issues, is the basis for my plans to not renew next year. This incident is one of the points I have raised with my ticket rep; however I am beginning to question whether I had the facts straight when I made my case to Revs organization.... `
Non one takes responsibility for the people not in supporters groups. These people were never told before the incident that YSA wouldn't be tolerated. It's impossible to know exactly what happened unless you were there. There are people on these boards who WERE there and are telling you first hand what happened. You can choose to believe them or not.
I've only seen two actual descriptions that even tried to state what happened, as opposed to peevish descriptions. Those are the two at that other blog linked near the start of this thread. The second one makes clear that fans were continuing chants with profanity after being told not to. It sounds like you've got a very immature set of people in the Fort, and maybe you need to think about how to restore some adult control rather than whining about what happens when you don't.
I don't sit in the fort. I live in Wisconsin. However, I know a handful of people that HAVE sat in the fort in the past and they are far from immature. The people in the fort are quite civil, and while a few have more drinks than necessary, MOST are responsible, mature human beings.
Again, there they go again. People making sure that any and all protests against 16 of Kraft Apathy is directly correlated to some meaningless YSA chant. Amazing beyond belief. But, like I said, anyone who keeps bringing up YSA as the reason or any foul mouthed chant for that matter wants us to feel the protests were for nought and downright petty!! THE PROTESTS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH YSA.
Not a question of belief. [Not sure now you spun it to that...?..] The question I asked was whether Team Ops targeted only members of Supporters Groups. One interpretation of NFLPatriot's last post is that the FO singled out only the SG members, and not the "renegades". I am asking whether this is a fact or not. And to your advice, we should looks for responses to this question from only those "were there" -- i.e., only those who have facts should answer. Come back out of the bunker - not everything being asked is an inbound missile. You need to read 9x then hit CAPS LOCK 1x. Not all questions are specific to the YSA chant. In this case, the question has nothing to to with the chant, didn't even reference it; it has to do with who collectively was badly treated by FO/Team Ops, vs. who was not badly treated. [...and some of us still asking questions WERE there. And are smart enough to know that we don't know everthing about it; and also smart enough to ask questions when statements made by others who were there don't provide clarity.] `
Yes SG members were the only ones targeted. I in fact saw my self 4 team ops guys laughing with a group of non SG members using gay slurs over and over. Guess what nothing was done about that but a YSA chant done by non SG members had SG targeted for it.
You keep saying YSA is not part of the issue, and I believe you believe it. But given that, I am still wondering about your intent in the first post quoted above, directed to those you refer to as Morgue Dwellers (I suppose that means anyone not in the Fort?). [But in many cases you don't even know whether the folks asking questions are in the Fort or not, do you?] And the use of "they" (I bolded it in the 2nd quoted post) is either a poor choice of expression, or else it is hypocritical. If the choice was intentional -- then consider that most of the discussion in this and related threads tries to carefully put a fine point on the distinction between SGs in the Fort versus non-SGs in the Fort. Conversely, you then broad-brush stereotype most who ask a pointed question here as being outside some sort of group (i.e., you label them as "they"). We all need to be circumspect with what is said how it is said, both in the stadium and here in the discussions. Or we all risk getting exactly what RevsFanDan hoped for a few posts ago. [Just gathering facts about SGs, prevailing attitudes and behaviors within SGs, treatment of SGs, etc. -- to ensure I make informed decisions. Not trying to stir emotions. I hate going off on pure emotion...] `
From my understanding (an from what I've witnessed as a non SG member), the SGs are very well organized. When leadership within a group says "Jump," the members say "how high?" Approximately half of the fort are non-SG members (a lot of people are surprised by this, including the clueless FO apparently). These people are quite diverse. There are some teenagers, some rowdy 20-somethings, and a few slightly more elderly fans. There are even some families (older families of course). Its really hard to get a good grasp of the dynamic unless you go sit in the fort.
This, I think, is the big issue. In Philly, those SOBs have their own Section. Not in the Sons, you can't sit in the River End. So when the FO wants to communicate with The River End, they just make a phone call to the President (or whatever) of the SOBs. But if some of the 'Cannons' (general term) want to start swearing in The Fort, there's nothing we can really do, as the SGs. And to berate Monty, just because you are familiar with him? Just because you know what he looks like? That was it for me. That was why I walked out. That's what my Black Sunday was about.
Can we take a step back for a second? Even if this was about the YSA chant, how does that in any way make it ok how TeamOps handled it? Someone please explain to me how the word "asshole" is so heinous that it should be met with the type of scorn and hostility from security and management? After thinking about this for a few weeks now, I think it is utterly ridiculous that the SG's even have to preface every argument on this topic with "this isn't about YSA." Even if it was about YSA, TeamOps and team management is still in the wrong. It's a frigging swear word, people. If you "Fort outsiders" want the SG's to grow up and show some "Adult control", then maybe it is time for some of the overly sensitive people to grow up as well and realize that "naughty words" hurt NO ONE! Just so you pilers-on know, I am not in an SG, nor did I ever sit in the Fort in 15 years as a season ticket holder. Grow up, a$$holes.
Why are swear words SO bad? Why do we censor ourselves SO much in this country as opposed to other developed countries? The answer is the influence of the religious right in our country. Priests are on the MPAA ratings appeal board for god's sake. That's why sex scenes, and especially gay/lesbian sex scenes, are such a big no-no in American cinema. We also try unsuccessfully to scare young teenagers into not having sex by showing them pictures of diseased genitals, while we tell our younger children that certain words are off limits without explaining why. And while all of the above mentioned social problems exist, they are COMPLETELY unrelated to the black Sunday protest. So maybe we shouldn't ask these kinds on this thread??
and just because they are offended, the world must stop? I have the right to swear. They have the right to be offended. Those are not the issues. Of course I cannot change them being offended. They shouldn't be able to change my right to swear. The balance is off, and that offends me. I'm calling Bob Kraft.