Official DC United vs Metrostars POST Match Thread [R]

Discussion in 'D.C. United' started by nick, Apr 17, 2004.

  1. Libero6

    Libero6 Member

    Apr 12, 2001
    Florida
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: United v Metroscum Post Match Analysis


    I completely agree about Taylor. The guy's speed and guile is amazing. Let's face it, it's another brilliant example of coach management. Bradley took what he found in Beasley at Chicago, added a sniper's finish and got Taylor. Metro actually looked about the same out of the gate in the second half except for him. Vaca was creating space and running circles around our guys (damn that kid can fly can't he?), Gaven and Guevara were feeding passes but Magee couldn't latch on to any of them. Taylor made the difference for them tonight. Warren and our flatfooted defence would've been competent enough for any other MLS offense.

    I also agree with the posters on the vote to stop wasting two subs on forwards.
     
  2. Th4119

    Th4119 Member

    Jul 26, 2001
    Annandale, VA
    Also, and I can't believe this hasn't been said before, but why was Lisi given so much time and space to cross the ball on one of the goals? A U-12 rec player could hit that cross 9 times out of 10 with the same amount of space, it was just sad.
     
  3. scarshins

    scarshins Member

    Jun 13, 2000
    fcva
    Why did kovalenko come out?
     
  4. DutchFootballRulez

    Jul 15, 2003
    Baltimore, MD
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For Gros.


    But Seriously, Dema is a rightie on the left-side for interchange w/ Bobby C, and w/ Gros we got energy and a Leftie. But I do want Kovalenko in the middle and a way for Gros to start as well
     
  5. Libero6

    Libero6 Member

    Apr 12, 2001
    Florida
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Maybe for Convey? Convey is better overall but if Dema is in the middle with Olsen then it might make sense to have Gros in for Convey (unless we bench Carroll). Convey's crosses have not been on par with Gros and his pace is suited well for running the sidelines.
     
  6. scarshins

    scarshins Member

    Jun 13, 2000
    fcva
    True, Gros tends to put his crosses 30 yards beyond the far post and out of play.
     
  7. Libero6

    Libero6 Member

    Apr 12, 2001
    Florida
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Most of those crosses were into space where a Ben Olsen or Earnie Stewart should have been. Convey's were usually offbalance and not timed well. His corner kicks were equally abismal. I'd rather see Convey in the middle than as a holding mid. He had to track back a lot to cover for Carroll and on the other side as well when Olsen ran out of gas. Gros can run all day and should have less trouble getting back on defence. The fact that he was able to send out all those crosses is proof of that.
     
  8. scarshins

    scarshins Member

    Jun 13, 2000
    fcva
    Exactly. Into space...alot of space...you don't cross it to a space where there's nobody.

    Well, not really. It's proof that the Metros did a bit of homework and were glad to clog the middle of the field and leave Gros wide open (like Convey in his first year!) on the wing.
     
  9. DigitalTron

    DigitalTron New Member

    Apr 4, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    Great observation. Olsen just stood about 4 yards in front of him not even attempting to close Lisi down. If Olsen even closes the distance without trying to dispossess Lisi, there's no way he can make that pass.

    Given that Lisi's one real talent is the accurate long ball, giving him time at that distance (where his passes can easily be served as the final pass) is a mistake. Any gameplan breakdown of Lisi should start with "deny him space to make long passes, especially to launch counters or make final passes." Really, that's the only way he's dangerous. He's 6'1 but cannot head the ball effectively because he cannot jump and he's slow and not very physical. He doesn't have the quickness or speed to beat people on the dribble, and he seldom takes shots. But give him time to survey the field, his long passing can unhinge a defense.

    -Digital
     
  10. Cantankerous

    Cantankerous New Member

    Apr 15, 2003
    United country
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: United v Metroscum Post Match Analysis

    Bingo! Our midfield didn't cover defensively as well as they did earlier, both in the match and in the season, and we got caught outnumbered in the back. The 3-5-2 requires that the midfield be very active all over the field. We were missing some of that work rate on Saturday.

    In spite of what I've read elsewhere, I think Namoff had a pretty decent day. OK, he had one misplay that lead to a goal, but was knocked down when he tried to recover the ball.

    With a little more cohesion between our back line and midfield, I think we'll be fine.
     
  11. Cantankerous

    Cantankerous New Member

    Apr 15, 2003
    United country
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    OK, a couple of his crosses were grossly (yes, pun intended) overhit, but I'll put that down to adrenaline, or a "rush of blood" if you're an Anglophile.

    Howver, the idea was correct. A cross should be out of the keeper's reach, either short of the near post or well beyond the far post. We just didn't have runners to the posts. Gros had all day on the wing and did well providing an outlet.
     
  12. scarshins

    scarshins Member

    Jun 13, 2000
    fcva
    No. There are no "places a cross should go" other than to your teammate, in a scoring position if at all possible, and not 1.out of bounds 2.to their defenders 3. to their goalkeeper.
    When pros cross the ball, they are picking out a specific player or group of players they are trying to get it to. They rarely cross "blind", only when there seems to be no other option. Gros had all the time needed on several crosses, and simply played bad balls. He also did that last week versus LA. He is not as skillful (yet) as our first-teamers. But I'm not saying he's not useful; our team tires out, so he may be at his most useful as a starter where he can put that great workrate to use taking some of the burden off our skill guys.
    Did well providing an outlet? Try, left alone by Metros cause he was the least of their worries.
     
  13. Libero6

    Libero6 Member

    Apr 12, 2001
    Florida
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So you're suggesting he should have continously crossed it into the middle for Pope, Bonseu, and Walker to have an easier time getting to them (a la US v. Poland- WC02)?
    When you're frontrunners are guys like Kirovski or McBride then sure, but if it's Lecko and Freddy going up against guys twice their size then it's not always wise to boot it into the box. Once or twice a centerback may flub a clearance but 9 times out of 10 its going to the defense.

    I'll agree that for most of his PT the only guy he had to beat was Vaca, but there were several opportunities for counterattacks that Gros attempted to start but were foiled by his teammates being out of steam at that point. With that I will also agree that he'd be much more usefull at the start of a match where his pace can help to wear down the midfield and some of those long crosses can meet up with fresher legs.
     
  14. Some things I thought while at the game.

    For the scum: Vaca has some wheels on him. I didn't know he was that fast.
    Great shot by Taylor on his first goal - the initial header would usually be enough to go in but the angle on the follow-up that went in was tough and he nailed it. His speed gave our defense trouble when our mid-field wasn't as effective at the start of the half.

    I thought Preke and Namoff did not have the best of games but that already has been pointed out by others. Carroll had a sub par game also. I didn't understand why Dema was taken off, I would of taken out Carroll as he seemed lost either because of the (fake) field or because the scum have several good midfielders. You can always count on Dema to hustle and it looked like our midfield stopped hustling. Gros really hangs out wide and the scum were giving him room. I though he should push it towards the middle instead of bringing it down out wide all the time and then crossing it in. If he brought it in, then he could pass back out to someone cutting in behind him. This happen with Freddie once and I thought it almost worked. As for Freddie, he is something to watch. Like most forwards he seems to be taking a nap out there and then just explodes out of no where to get a goal. His goal was not easy but required hustle and heart to dive in there like he did. I also like the fact that he didn't celebrate - he just ran got the ball and hustle back to mid field. He knew that his goal wouldn't mean much unless we got another. Finally I thought Warner did ok in goal. He gave up a soft one on the third goal but didn't have much of a chance on the first two. Game should of been 3-3 as no way Sewart and Eki don't get a goal on their breakaway - that was just pathetic.

    Had a great time going up on the bus even though I was afraid that our driver was going to get there late. And while I hate losing to the scum I thought their fans were pretty descent to us. And finally that Ref really sucked.

    So far I think the scum are the team to beat in our division and the La Gals are the class out west. We did fairly well against both at their homes (openers no less). Can’t wait to kick their asses at RFK.

    -The Far Side
     
  15. Cantankerous

    Cantankerous New Member

    Apr 15, 2003
    United country
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We don't disagree. Supporting players making runs off the ball should head for positions short of the near post to flick on the ball, or run beyond the back post to play the ball in. Neither position should be within reach of the keeper.

    Didn't I say that?

    Disagree. They were concentrating on clogging the middle and left the outside untended. As it turns out, Gros was mostly not a threat from the outside.
     
  16. Libero6

    Libero6 Member

    Apr 12, 2001
    Florida
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We should sign him ;)
     
  17. mothy

    mothy New Member

    Feb 20, 2004
    not to bag on Gros here, as i think he has promise, but if he is not a threat from the outside then he is not a threat, period. he seems to only play wide.
     
  18. Cantankerous

    Cantankerous New Member

    Apr 15, 2003
    United country
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree he has a lot of promise. I think there's value in having a tireless player running the lines. It stretches the defence and lets the interior players have more room, particularly if he can learn to pick out his teammates with passes from the outside.

    It'd be nice if he threw some variety into his game and dribbled inside once in a while.

    He's a rookie, though, and will need time to improve. Gee, that sounds familiar.
     
  19. scarshins

    scarshins Member

    Jun 13, 2000
    fcva
    There are too many "shoulds" in that paragraph. The one run you forgot to mention is steaming straight down the middle. Didn't Adu score off a Gros cross- straight in the middle? Pro players do what works, and know what works, and that's what they do. Suggesting to a 12 year old that he make his far post run wider, I'm sure you can list several reasons, is great. It's hard to apply that sort of thing here.
     
  20. lurking

    lurking Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Huh?

    I dont get this ripping on a rookie in his second game. The kid may not be David Beckham with his crossing, or Ryan Giggs with his overall play, but he has been putting in those crosses and they have lead to goals. He may not deserve to start because of his overall play, but be thankful you have the option at this point.
     
  21. Cantankerous

    Cantankerous New Member

    Apr 15, 2003
    United country
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I counted two. The most important one was that the recipient of the cross should be out of the reach of the keeper.

    Actually, no, not the kind of cross that we're talking about. Gros slid the ball across and the Metros missed it. That was a goal poacher's dream. A very nice, opportunistic goal, but it wasn't a classic cross.


    I'll tell you what I do know for a certainty. Suggesting that a short player look for crosses from the wing in the box against players like Pope and Bonseu (sp?) is foolish. I guess I don't understand why exactly you inserted Freddy into this discussion. This was about the quality of Gros's crosses, and why they were no teammates running to the proper places. I think it'll be a long time before Freddy becomes a serious target for crosses from the sideline.
     
  22. scarshins

    scarshins Member

    Jun 13, 2000
    fcva
    This is useless, let's wrap it up. I can see no way to blame other players for Gros crossing to no one. Not even near one of our players. Several times. Not their fault, his fault, but I'm sure he'll improve in that regard with experience. As for the situational nature of the game, I'll give you a recent example of what, in pro soccer, is a wise and accurate cross, and a run down the middle, not outside the posts, because the opportunity presented itself: Guevara to Wolyniec. Hate to say it, but that was textbook.
     
  23. EdTheRed

    EdTheRed Member+

    Feb 6, 2001
    Loose On The Town
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Cook Islands
    Not including his short role as a sub in match 1, he's played one entire match (LA) and most of a half (NJ), and has two assists from the left side. That sounds like a threat to me.
     
  24. mothy

    mothy New Member

    Feb 20, 2004
    i believe my post started with "not to bag on gros". to me , that doesn't constitute "ripping". my point was about his positioning and its effect on the shape of the midfield versus the metros, not his quality.
     
  25. Cantankerous

    Cantankerous New Member

    Apr 15, 2003
    United country
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed. Let's wrap it up. I think this is a matter of semantics. I think of crosses as wider passes, like from near the sideline. Guevara's ball, and Earnie's as well, were just passes across the goalmouth.
     

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