That is just the biggest crock I've read on bigsoccer for a long time.....and there have been many truly f'd up posts around here.
Before this discussion gets hopelessly sidetracked into team-strength comparisons and contrasts across confederations, let me marvel that, given a proposal in which UEFA countries suddenly increase their political power to 40%+ of the votes, it inexplicably appears to be the UEFA-country supporters that are critical of it.
Yes I am. Costa Rica finished 4th in CONCACAF's last WC qualifying campaign and narrowly lost 2-1 on aggregate to World Cup semifinalists Uruguay in the playoffs. The nine 2nd place teams from UEFA's last WC qualifying were Russia, Greece, France, Ukraine, Slovenia, Bosnia, Portgual, Ireland, and Norway. I'd rate Costa Rica as underdogs against Russia, Portugal, and most France teams (but not the 2010 version), even against Ukraine and Ireland, slight favorites against Greece, Slovenia, and Norway, and clear favorites against Bosnia. You can also note that at World Cup 2010 itself, CONCACAF's third place team (Honduras) drew with a UEFA group winner (Switzerland), and at World Cup 2006, CONCACAF's 4th place team (Trinidiad & Tobago) drew with a UEFA 2nd place team (Sweden). So based on the evidece, I don't think my saying that a CONCACAF 4th place team is of roughly the same quality as a UEFA 2nd place team is inaccurate at all. What evidence do you have that shows otherwise? Or is it just your European sense of superiority showing through yet again?
Arf ... how old skool. A thread in which posters trade entirely subjective opinions about theoretical team strengths, label such opinions "evidence" and then challenge each other for trumps. Can someone DM me when the eight pages of theoretical bluster about whether Costa Rica are or are not stronger than Bosnia-Herzegovina are over?
i second this. concacaf is far better than valued here and the second set of european teams behind the big ones disappointed vastly in the recent 3 world cups.
Yeah, I'm gonna have to agree with this. No one in their right mind would consider CONCACAF teams to be on par with the UEFA best. But the top half the 2nd tier of the UEFA teams are level with US/Mexico in any given tourney, and the bottom half with the CONCACAF flavor of the year.
So two games four years apart is enough evidence? From the past two tournaments, the combined record of the 2nd place UEFA Qualifying teams in the first round is 11 wins, 7 draws and 9 defeats - average 4.44 points per team. Over the same period, the combined record of the 3rd and 4th place CONCACAF teams is 0 wins, 2 draws and 7 defeats - average 0.67 points per team.
FYI....In the current FIFA rankings there are 29 European countries ranked above the 4th ranked concacaf team...
Yeah, and 7 out of our 10 CONMEBOL teams as well, with special consideration on our 8th and 9th teams (Ecuador and Venezuela), against whom not even CONCACAF's best (Mexico) has been able to beat recently or even getting slaughtered by them, even playing at home. The truth is, that CONCACAF is a pretty weak Confederation, maybe even the weakest of all together with the OFC (Imho, it is), depending most of its achievements in the performance of 2 teams (Mexico & USA), who only the couple of them, could be comparable with the rest of the worlds 2nd tier teams.
This pretty well nails it. I'd also add that one of the two games he used as "evidence" featured a team (T&T) that failed to score a goal and finished bottom of its group.
I actually thought the first sentence in this post was the dumber one even though people are fully justified to poke fun at the 2nd sentence. In 2002, Germany didn't win their qualifying group because they lost a grand total of 1 match. Then they went to the WC final. In the HEX, the most recent 3rd place finisher had a record of 5w, 1d, 4l. Meaning if you just beat the bottom 2 teams in the HEX home & away you already have one foot in the WC finals. So I'm gonna go out on the limb and assume that the 2002 German NT would've gotten through a HEX with under 5 losses.
The latest from the CONCACAF power struggle: http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/ne...oncacaf-ousting-acting-president-lisle-austin
How convenient that you forget to note the fact that the HEX is a lot tougher at the bottom than UEFA qualifying groups...no San Marinos and Andorras to beat up on. Put most of the UEFA 2nd place teams in the HEX, and they would probably do just about the same and the CONCACAF 3rd/4th place teams do. To wit....the current 6th best CONCACAF team (Panama) is ranked 67th, which would make them the 4th best team in most UEFA qualifying groups. Now ask yourself if teams like Russia, Ireland, Greece, Slovenia, Bosnia, etc. would do better than 5-1-4 = 11 in qualifying groups in which the worst teams were the likes of Austria, Scotland, and Poland (the teams ranked closest to Panama) and they DIDN'T get four gimme wins against UEFA bottom-feeders? After all the top 2nd place teams in the last UEFA WC qualifying cycle, Russia and Greece, each earned 22 points...and that's including 12 gimmie points against Azerbaijan/Liechtenstein and Luxembourg/Moldova respectively. Take those twelve points away and they earned 10 points against the quality of teams they would face in a CONCACAF HEX....actually one point less than the CONCACAF 3rd place finisher in the most recent HEX (i.e. in 4th place).
No, the fact that at the last two World Cups, UEFA 2nd place teams drew with CONCACAF 3rd/4th place teams is not enough evidence in and of itself, but it does point to the fact that the gap is not as big as it's made out to be by the pro-UEFA posters on this thread. As to the cumulative data you cite, while it probably does point in the right direction (namely that UEFA 2nd place teams outperform CONCACAF 3rd/4th place teams at the World Cup), since the 2nd place UEFA teams and CONCACAF 3rd/4th place teams do not play the same schedules at the WC, it does not tell the whole story. The non-seeded UEFA teams have a pot all to themselves (and therefore never have to play each other), whereas the non-seeded CONCACAF teams are usually placed in the same pot as the Asian teams, and therefore suffer from not being able to play other weak teams. Also, the fact that the UEFA 2nd place teams generally have more big-match experience (from playing at previous WC's and the Euros) probably leads to better performance at World Cups.
As to the cumulative date you cite, the FIFA rankings, since UEFA teams and CONCACAF teams do not play the same schedules over the course of accumulating these ranking points, it does not tell the whole story.
I hate to break up this wonderful dick measuring party for something that is on topic... But it seems that the CFU has now called for an investigation of Blazer because he is clearly racist as witnessed by his objection to Horace Burrell becoming a CONCACAF vice-president (or is that president of vice?)... This just keeps getting curiouser and curiouser I can't wait for the next edition of Bill Archer...
ummm... you said finishing 3rd in CONCACAF is as difficult as winning a UEFA group. You appear to be moving the goalposts. The initial comparison was using Italy and Germany. Now you're using third-tier UEFA teams like Bosnia who rarely finish top 2 in a group.
The two CONCACAF teams you're using as "evidence" both finished bottom of their group and scored zero goals. I'd say that indicates they were pretty much uncompetitive.
When you've got nothing else, reach for the racist card. It's just another desperate smoke screen by Uncle Jack's minions to delay the inevitable. Pitiful.
Why don't you actually try to read CAREFULLY before making a snide comment, so that you actually rephrase what I said acccurately! What I originally said was that finishing 1st or 2nd in the Hex was about as difficult for MEXICO OR THE USA (not any other country) as winning a UEFA group was for ITALY or GERMANY, i.e. pretty easy. I never said that finishing 3rd in CONCACAF was as difficult as winning a UEFA group. The fact that you think I did means that you haven't been reading too carefully. I don't mind being criticized or getting into a spirited debate, but at least take the time to read what the other person is saying CAREFULLY before making your response.