Post-match: DC United vs. colorado rapids :: Saturday, 5/14

Discussion in 'D.C. United' started by Riz, May 14, 2011.

  1. nobletea

    nobletea Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 29, 2004
    HarCo
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, I was talking to a friend of mine about a year ago this time, who's a doctor (ER). His contention from the beginning was that Davies wasn't ever going to play again. He looks a little wrong on that one. About a year ago, he said, okay, he made a miraculous recovery, but there's no way he's ready for a World Cup, and let's see if he can really make a comeback to just be a regular player again.

    And with his niggling injuries this year so far (because I don't remember many in his past) I think that last question is the one that will get answered at DC United. Can he complete an entire season, competing and winning a regular spot at the professional level? If his body can meet a full season of those demands, we'll find out this year. If he can do that and be productive in the process, we may find that out next year. His current spate of small injuries is now making me question if he can truly come back.
     
  2. Heist

    Heist Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know if I'd make a direct connection for sure here. It could be related, but its been a couple of minor injuries and it could be totally unrelated. Tons of guys who haven't had any major car accidents get more than one small injury, especially early in the year.
     
  3. DangerMouse37

    DangerMouse37 Member+

    Jan 22, 2004
    WDC / Barra
    Look, the team is what it is.

    Last night's performance wasn't great to watch, but it was a lot better than last year. Playing dull, defensive soccer isn't the DCU I know and love, but it's a damn sight better than getting hammered 4-0 (seemingly the team's other speed).

    If I were in Ben's shoes after the recent Red Bull beat down and with an inexperienced back line, I'd probably think defense first too. We were in each of the last two games until the final whistle with the chance to win -- which is what you want.

    The team is missing key pieces, chief among them someone who can control the center of the field. Dax is too defensive and strangely a horrible passer this year, but Fred is hardly the answer to our prayers. Psychologically, I'd rather -- for the team's sake and for mine -- that we not play flowing soccer and get creamed if those are the options.

    The one thing that is curious is this: I'm a huge Ben fan but I don't get what's happening with the sagging intensity level on this team. Ben was Mr. Intensity. If there was one thing I would have assumed he'd insist on, it would be consistent effort, 90 minutes of fight.

    I'm just not seeing that, and passion is something that United should be able to fix.
     
  4. rugman

    rugman Member

    Oct 13, 2003
    Annapolis
    Really? Fantastic? How about the goal he gifted to Wells Thompson who lucky for us, couldn't hit the broad side of a bus? While he made some needed plays he started out lackadaisical and just doesn't think sometimes.

    I certainly don't blame him for the Moor goal but more than once I kept yelling at him to use your brain last night.

    Also have to say that the guy on the Moor goal that looked bad was Ethan White as Moor was his man. I give him credit for playing most of the game injured but he made some bone headed plays also. For instance he took one too many touches with Conor Casey lurking and Casey almost made us pay for that.

    Kitchen plays with his hands too much. I thought for sure that Vaughn was going to break out a yellow for persistent infringement. I'm thinking he got called for at least 4 or 5 fouls last night.

    I will take the point and level of improvement over last year. :D
     
  5. Aconti2

    Aconti2 Member

    Apr 10, 2011
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes a tie against the champs is good. I think people are putting higher expectations on this team because I think everyone can agree that with the players we're working with, and the promise of new players, We can begin to put one hell of a group together.
     
  6. MattMathai

    MattMathai BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 28, 2004
    Annapolis
    I think this group needs seasoning. I see a lot of talent and potential. I think this can be an awesome team in about a year. if that happens, they can stay good for another five.
     
  7. Aconti2

    Aconti2 Member

    Apr 10, 2011
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Exactly, there is so much room to go up here and as it stands its a decent group. If Kitchen and White stay with DCU for a few years then we could have a rock solid defense, as long as they steadily improve. The best teams start at the back.
     
  8. La Barra Blonde

    Oct 21, 2007
    Section 135
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is it wrong to want an awesome team now? :eek:
     
  9. DangSkippy

    DangSkippy Member+

    Apr 28, 2009
    MoCo Maryland
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not certain from where this confidence in the defense is coming. Shutting out Dallas is pretty good, but Seattle have been having trouble scoring all year and were still adjusting to losing Zakuani. Colorado played most of the game without Folan, Cummings, or Casey, you know, their starting strikers, and DC's backline never looked in control of the game. And all those games were at home.
    When I watch the defense, I get the impression that DC will lose more games this year by a three-or-more goal margin.
     
  10. yabo

    yabo Member+

    Jun 1, 2000
    Poolesville, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The very definition of a young group is their inconsistencies. Ben is still finding out what he's got. If we can get a little lucky during the summer to stay in contention and find an offensive spark in the central midfield we'll be a dangerous team in the fall.
     
  11. Untroubled by Reason

    Dec 5, 2007
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To want? No. To expect? Yes.
     
  12. Peter Bonetti

    Peter Bonetti Member+

    Jan 1, 2005
    1970 WC Quarterfinal
    So a lot of people are focusing on how this team will look a year from now or beyond. Where does Branco fit into that? Olsen was just quoted by Goff as saying that Branco had finally figured out the league and was just coming into his own. Does he figure into our plans over the next five years as a DP?
     
  13. Claymore

    Claymore Member

    Jul 9, 2000
    Montgomery Vlg, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Forgot to mention: on the (not) DOGSO McCarty foul, McCarty lined up and put the ensuing free kick into PG county. Can we get someone else to take these kicks, PLEASE??
     
  14. nobletea

    nobletea Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 29, 2004
    HarCo
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Let's inject some blasphemous data into the discussion.

    Using
    http://www.settingthetable.info/home/
    (often not updated with weekend results on Mondays, but oh well)

    Note first of all we are just a win out of the last playoff spot. Yay.

    Tied for 2nd (with 5 others) in goals with 13.
    GPG is 1.3
    18th (dead last) in goals against with 18.
    GPG is 1.8

    So it looks like all of us saying the offense is the problem might be wrong, and the defense is the problem. (Please note however, that believing one is THE problem is not exclusionary to believing that the other is A problem).

    But wait. There's more!

    If you throw out the outliers (as is typically done in analysis), you remove -12 goals from the 18 GA, leaving 8, 4th best, and a GAA of 1.1

    If you throw out THE outlier for goals, which is 3 (ah, the good old days), you have 10 goals in 9 games, or 1.1 GPG, or 13th best.

    Also, consider how many of the remaining 10 goals were from the spot, and it doesn't seem like we have a threatening goal scoring machine.

    Results of Analysis:

    We suck.

    No seriously, obviously we can't learn a lot from such small samples, but it is 1/3 of all the sample we are going to get for the season. It indicates to me that neither the offense or defense is very good, but all in all, I think it shows me that the defense is not as much of a problem as the offence. Of course, you only need to make one of them perfect to win games, and I really don't care which it is.
     
  15. uniteo

    uniteo Member+

    Sep 2, 2000
    Rockville, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    While I agree with most of what you write, I will pick on this comment a little in that a HUGE problem last year was that we had glacial forwards who could not get on to through balls. Not so much an issue this year.
     
  16. uniteo

    uniteo Member+

    Sep 2, 2000
    Rockville, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    yeah, and to expand, he gave Tino the keys to the car for about 5 games IIRC. To me if you're asking a player with about 8 years in the league to take on an entirely new role you need to expect a transition period. Onalfo panicked and ended the switch. And while I agree with Rongen that Tino's best position is as a supporting striker...if he is expected to play that spot now it will still take a few games for him to get into the forward mindset.
     
  17. ECU_SIMMS

    ECU_SIMMS New Member

    Oct 25, 2006
    you want jagovich off this team? a little extreme. look to me jaco is

    1.)technically gifted
    2.)avg to below avg defender


    #1 is hard to learn, find, acquire this type of attribute at this level with his experience(IMO he has more skills.technique, then any US center back)
    #2 can be taught and he can always get better, but its not something you cant teach or coach

    he reminds me of a young rio ferdinand or better comparison might be kabol from spurs..
     
  18. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Our defense has given up 2 goals in the last 3 games. Yeah, our defense has fallen apart a few times this season, but if they keep playing more or less the way they've been doing in this last 3, I don't think we have anything to complain about. Our offense was the difference between 5 points and 9.
     
  19. MagpieFan

    MagpieFan Member+

    Apr 25, 2004
    Back in DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hmm....aiming for a goal in a new stadium location?? :rolleyes::eek:
     
  20. DangSkippy

    DangSkippy Member+

    Apr 28, 2009
    MoCo Maryland
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree that both are problems. I disagree that nearly a third of our sample games are "outliers." Another way to establish outliers might be to throw out the games where teams are missing key attacking players, such as when we played LA, Seattle, Colorado (the second time), Dallas (although Dallas is still in good form). Or whether the team we played was Toronto. ;) Or conversely, how many goals have refs cost DC with questionable penalties or offside/handball non-calls (and how many have they given for Pontius and Davies who have been taking SCUBA lessons)?

    The defense may be getting better, I wouldn't be surprised. But I think it is more of problem than the stinginess of the last three games suggest because of intervening variables. When I watch the defense play, it seems like they are teetering on a knife edge and occasionally relying on the other team to miss. This is MLS, there are plenty of teams that will miss a lot of chances (DC is probably one of them), but there are also teams that will convert those chances and actually create some of their own. The latter is the type of team that I still think DC will lose to by a massive margin. I hope I am wrong. That'd be great.
     
  21. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He has the ball retention skills of a USL centerback!

    At least this year. He was pretty darned good last year for Dallas. I think Olsen is asking him to do things he's not capable of.

    As a motivator, Olsen is an excellent coach. As a tacticiam, he's an excellent motivator. I've long been skeptical of the soccer-centric practice of hiring as head coach a club legend. Payne's initial impression was right; Olsen is in over his head right now. The team just plays poor stuff all the time.
     
  22. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Of course, Garber doesn't make decisions at the level number one, and number two, MLS doesn't do ref assignments.

    Dax needs to be in a 5 man midfield, apparently. I'd like to see a 4-2-3-1 with the 3 AMs being Najar, Pontius, and Wolff. Wolff played that role some with 1860.

    But the main thing I see about DC this year is that while the overall talent has been seriously upgraded, there's such a mismatch of talent to tactics and talent to teammates that the improvement is going to be marginal. We might make the expanded playoffs, and we might not. But I think DC definitely is in the top half of the league in terms of talent on the roster, which is a big improvement. A smart GM would re-align the talent and improve the performance.

    And we have Payne.
     
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  23. nick

    nick Member+

    Nov 23, 1998
    Potomac Falls, Va
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Overall this year's team is a step up from last year. This team has speed up top that was missing last year. We have players that can make intelligent runs and put the ball in the net. They also can harras the defense.

    The midfield which was supposed to be another improvement however has fallen considerably short. Dax is being asked to take too much of a playmaking role in midfield, and frankly Simm's form as just fallen through the floor. Our wing play is so/so. We tend to do well attacking but have problems getting back to help the wing backs.

    In the back, so far Kitchen has not lived up to expectations as that complement to Jakovic. Perhaps people were thinking Kitchen was the next Tim Ream, but that so far (and this may be way to early to say this) doesn't seem to be happening. Consequently, Kitchen has been moved outside where he has limited experience and limited impact.

    The failure to solidify the centerbacks (and Simms huge drop in form) has just cascaded into a set of problems with the entire defense. The defense is without leadership and is very, very inexperienced. When you really look at the defense we have should you really think this would be a dominate group. In some ways they have actually done better than might be expected considering the inexperience.

    (And yes despite the problems I just laid out this is a better team than last year. But then again we were really, really awful last year.;))
     
  24. nick

    nick Member+

    Nov 23, 1998
    Potomac Falls, Va
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree we have upgraded, but I don't really see we are "in the top half of the league in talent". There are some teams in the league we I don't think we have a starting player that would start on some of the other teams.

    I hate saying this but for example compare NY to DC starting player to starting player.

    When you have Direct Kick and see a bunch of other games around the league you really notice how much the League and teams have improved.
     
  25. The Artist

    The Artist Member+

    Mar 22, 1999
    Illinois
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think the Dax foul was a red card. The ball was going toward the endline and he was so far away that Wynne, for example, probably could have disrupted his goal scoring opportunity.

    The non-PK call was one of the most blatant penalties I have ever seen. JN was about to shoot, had a clear path to the ball, and the Rapids player took out his legs without any play on the ball. There was literally nothing questionable. The Pontius call was clearly a makeup, and, much like in the LAG game, I was happy to accept it.

    Although the defense is scary sometimes, I'm less worried about it because we have youth (and the hope of improvement), athleticism (which makes up for a multitude of sins), and a number of options.
     

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