Are Games Between Near Equal Clubs More Likely To Produce Draws?

Discussion in 'Statistics and Analysis' started by EvanJ, Apr 16, 2011.

  1. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I plan on using the 2009-2010 EPL, which has 380 games, to test a hypothesis of games between near equal clubs more likely to be draws. Out of the 380 games, 108 are between clubs within three spots in the table of 38 are between clubs in consecutive positions, 36 are between clubs two positions apart, and 34 are between clubs three positions apart. http://www.pedwards.co.uk/09-10res.htm has all the 2009-2010 results. 96 games (25.3%) were draws that season. I'll post more later.
     
  2. Killersheep

    Killersheep Member

    Sep 26, 2010
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The form momentum charts I have been using for MLS can be used to study this, as the resistance is a calculation of position differential as if the teams were in a single table. If you'd like me to share any raw data with you, I'd be more than happy to.
     
  3. sokol

    sokol Member

    Aug 4, 2004
    Great question. I decided to try to figure that out myself, but I used a slightly different method than you.

    I used the number of points at the end of the season for each team as to calculate the difference in quality as the absolute value of the home team's points - the away teams points. Then for each match, a win by either team was coded as 0 and a draw as 1.

    I then took two approaches to answering the question. First, I just did a simple t-test to compare the means of point differences between games that ended in draws and games that didn't. The mean for draws was 17, the mean for wins was 22, and the difference was significant (p = .002). So that's one piece of evidence that says draws are more likely between teams closer in points.

    Then I fit a logit model to see the probability of a win at each point difference, and the result is even more conclusive. The probability of a draw between teams with equal points is .36, the probability for teams with a 58 point difference (the max in the 2009-10 epl season if you don't count Portsmouth's 9 point penalty) is .11. The coefficient is significant, and the relationship between points and probability of a draw is linear, and actually slightly curvilinear. I don't think I can post pictures otherwise I'd post the graph. Instead I'll just approximate what it looks like:


    Prob .36 | *
    | *
    | *
    | *
    | *
    .11 |_______________*
    Point dif. 0 58


    This may not exactly be the same question you posed, which might have had more to do with probability of a tie given current form or relative standing compared to their final standing. That is obviously a little more complicated because teams start from the same place, so games at the beginning of the year all appear to be between equal teams. I'll be interested to see what you come up with using ranks.
     
  4. sokol

    sokol Member

    Aug 4, 2004
    Great question. I decided to try to figure that out myself, but I used a slightly different method than you.

    I used the number of points at the end of the season for each team to calculate the difference in quality as the absolute value of the home team's points - the away teams points. Then for each match, a win by either team was coded as 0 and a draw as 1.

    I then took two approaches to answering the question. First, I just did a simple t-test to compare the means of point differences between games that ended in draws and games that didn't. The mean for draws was 17, the mean for wins was 22, and the difference was significant (p = .002). So that's one piece of evidence that says draws are more likely between teams closer in points.

    Then I fit a logit model to see the probability of a win at each point difference, and the result is even more conclusive. The probability of a draw between teams with equal points is .36, the probability for teams with a 58 point difference (the max in the 2009-10 epl season if you don't count Portsmouth's 9 point penalty) is .11. The coefficient is significant, and the relationship between points and probability of a draw is linear, and actually slightly curvilinear. I don't think I can post pictures otherwise I'd post the graph. Instead I'll just approximate what it looks like:


    Prob .36 | *
    | *
    | *
    | *
    | *
    .11 |_______________*
    Point dif. 0 58


    This may not exactly be the same question you posed, which might have had more to do with probability of a tie given current form or relative standing compared to their final standing. That is obviously a little more complicated because teams start from the same place, so games at the beginning of the year all appear to be between equal teams. I'll be interested to see what you come up with using ranks.


    Edit- it seems bigsoccer doesn't like the whitespace in my graph, so it's not really helpful. But the basic idea can be inferred that its more or less a straight line from the top left corner to the bottom right, with probability as the y-axis and point difference as the x-axis.
     
  5. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For each type of game in the 2009-2010 EPL here is what percent of the games were draws:

    Clubs 1 spot apart: 15.8%
    Clubs 2 spots apart: 38.9%
    Clubs 3 spots apart: 32.4%
    Clubs 1 to 3 spots apart: 28.7%
    Clubs more than 3 spots apart: 23.9%
    All games: 25.3%

    Games between clubs 1 to 3 spots apart were more likely to produce draws but not by a ton. The 38 games between clubs 1 spot apart surprisingly had only 6 draws.
     
  6. sokol

    sokol Member

    Aug 4, 2004
    Is this based on their rank at the end of the season, or at the time the game was played? If it's the time the game was played, how did you determine the rankings for the first week of the season?
     
  7. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  8. palynka

    palynka Member

    Jun 7, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    This seems to me closer to my prior than sokol's curvilinear relationship. I expect a bit of an inverted U-curve. If you're VERY close you might still play an open game to go for the win. If you're close but a bit below, you'd be happier with a draw and you have the quality to push the percentage up. If you're far, you'd be happy with a draw but don't have the quality to get a high enough percentage.

    It would be nice to see the win percentages for those groups.
     
  9. Sussex lad

    Sussex lad Member

    Apr 18, 2011
    brighton
    Club:
    Brighton & Hove Albion FC
    Not really, its more dependant on form and style of play.
     
  10. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought of something related to study. I want to calculate the points per game gap between every pair of clubs (there are 190 pairs for the EPL, La Liga, Serie A, and Ligue 1) and see if leagues with a lower average points per game gap have more draws.
     
  11. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I remember looking into something similar many years ago, but based on which quarter of the league table each team was in, when the games were played.

    While hardly a conclusive study, it did show that draws were most frequent when a team played at home to a team in the quarter below them - in other words the common belief that home advantage leveling things out and making draws more likely was wrong.
     
    EvanJ repped this.
  12. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I used the 2013-2014 and 2012-2013 seasons of the EPL, La Liga, Bundesliga, Liga Sagres (Portugal), and Swiss Super League to make 10 data points. My hypothesis was a negative correlation, meaning that the higher the average point gap was, the lower the percentage of games that are draws should be. The actual correlation was -0.0342, which is negative but close to 0. The regression line was:

    Percentage of games that were draws = 24.597% - 1.433*average of the point gaps between every pair of clubs

    Since the point gap averages ranged from 0.428 to 0.636, the difference between the largest and smallest point gap average would expect to affect the percentage of games that were draws by only 0.298%.
     

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