Timothy Chandler (all R's)

In Nürnberg, a fullback is a box-to-box position.

As it is on most teams.

Sagna+Clichy.

Lahm+Pranjic.

Rafael+Evra.

Bosingwa+Cole.

 

And Cherundolo for the US...

 

I look at it in a sense that is more subjective. You can't pin it down to an exact formula, but I consider a player that spent his "formative" years in the US as an American. He need not be born here or even live the vast majority of his life here, but he needs to be "american" in a cultural sense for me to feel he has a place on the team. I don't want USA to be a team of mercenaries. The legal definition of citizen has little to do with the innate americaness that some from this country would prefer to deny but that the rest of the world still reluctantly respect.

My satisfaction with the team is based on my personal sense of americaness, yes, but I do not apologize for it. It has nothing to do with ethnicity or race; i just want to feel like they in some small part represent me. The fact that some soldier got his nut off on some abroad expedition is not a satisfactory connection to USA for me to appreciate the player as my representative; he is not from here, he did not go to school here, does not speak our language fluently, nor has he spent substantial time here. And how dare anyone disparage me as "nationalistic," for rooting for your national team is nothing but. To accept Chandler is to accept mercenary players and is to accept a perversion of international play.

 

Its funny you were pretty accepting of Jermaine Jones 18 months ago:

https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1117045

 

Wow, that is just wow.

 

1st: You can scour my post databank all you want, that's fine as well as hilarious. I will also admit that my views on this subject have evolved in the past year or so. From what I know, J Jones at least has lived in the US in his life. But I reject him as well for the sake of argument. In other words, do as I say, not as I said!

2nd: Non responsive. Is what I said not accurate? Does Chandler have more extensive connections to the United States than the fact that his wayward father impregnated a local out on a lark? If so, please let me know. If not quiet down till you respond with something of substance.

 

I think maybe you should be the one quieting down talking about somebody's family situation that you nothing about other than an offhand remark in some article you probably read. Hide behind the anonymity of the internet, but flippant remarks about people's family situations reflect poorly upon you.

 

What about Diskerud arsynic do you boo him also? Anyway sad to say, I would almost say that you're not going to have a fun time cheering for the USMNT, as the trend of dual nationality players is only growing. The eligibility is played by FIFA's rules, not based on any type of nationalistic identity.

 

I don't feel sorry for public figures making millions from their position and I will not apologize. You've gone ahead and moved the goalposts from what constitutes "americaness" to whether or not my remarks about Chandler's family are appropriate. Please stick to the matter at hand or politely acknowledge your fail.

 

Yes, I will boo someone who in my opinion is not american enough. And you are right that I will have less fun the more foreigners we have representing the united states. it shouldn't be a contest of snagging the best players raised in any country who technically can gain citizenship of your country.

If I was in charge, the rule would require that the player lived in the country he represents at some point for at least 3 years prior to the age 18, but I am not Sepp Blatter.

 

I don't really care about how you feel about public figures, nor do I really care about your goal posts. You have shown your lack of class with your own comments. I didn't have to do anything.

 

Pray tell,what are the comonents of this precious American culture of which you speak?Moon Pies?Ketchup instead of salsa?Fox News?

And seriously- culture is "innate" now?What sociology textbook are they using at Bob Jones University?

And if you were a real American,you'd only care how our national team did every four years,and would not care who played for them as long as they won.

 

Consider this a pre-emptive booing of your booing.

 

I have no problem with your views, but it's the system we have. I feel that Najar should be able to play for the US upon getting a green card. He lives here, wants to play here and has been Americanized. Of the 2 he seems more American.

The problem is it' a small world and so many players have multiple countries to choose from. Being a citizen appears to be the only solution, whether fair or not.

We lose players like Rossi and Hoyos and pick up players like Chandler. It's not ideal but there no sense in getting overly worked up about things we can't control.

 

I have mixed feelings about the nationality question as well. Inevitably, accepting guys like Jones and Chandler means excluding from the team some number of the top 23 US citizens who were born and raised in the US. Same thing with playing time. And I'm not sure it says much about the U.S. as a world soccer power if we win with players who have little nexus to the U.S.

Ultimately, it comes down to a personal decision of how much of a nexus you are comfortable with before you accept a player as a true U.S. player. I look at it on a case by case basis. Holden moved here when he was about 10 and became a citizen in his 20s. That's good enough for me, but probably isn't for some people. Feilhaber was born in Brazil and moved to the U.S. at age 6. Zac Whitbred was born in the US but his dad's occupation has taken him overseas for almost his entire life. Again, good enough for me, but probably not for some people. Jones and Chandler have the bare minimum nexus to comply with FIFA rules. They both were fathered by Americans, but raised by Germans in Germany, don't speak English and have spent little to no time in the U.S. I'm not altogether comfortable with that. In the end, everyone is free to draw his own lines, but so long as the U.S. plays by the rules, I think Americans should support the team and its players.

 

Given the dangers that lurk in the subjective rabbit hole that is a discussion of what constitutes "Americanness", perhaps we are best served by adhering to the brightline legal definitions. While I can understand and appreciate the honesty of Arsynic's posts, while at the same time disagreeing with his conclusion as well as with the presumptuous characterizations of the nature of the relationship between Chandler's parents, his definition of "Americanness" seems untenable and vulnerable to many other questions and qualifications. (What is "culturally American? What is "substantial"? How much school is enough? what is our language? If it is English, how do we reconcile the un-American acts of those fluent in English [I'm looking at you, Connecticut born Benedict Arnold!] with those who love this country who do not speak English?)

 

The way I see it, if someone wants to be American, they can come here and be American. There's a process for naturalization, sure, but we're an open and free country.

If a soccer player wants to play for the USMNT and has the right citizenship qualifications, then dammit he's one of ours. We're an open and free country.

Edit: More practice pics, please.

 

Double J's English seems not bad to me.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9NRw7o7X8A"]YouTube - Blackburn unveil US international Jermaine Jones[/ame]

 

Shoot, JJ's hometown is Chicago.

http://www.ussoccer.com/Teams/US-Men/Player-Pool/2011-Player-Pool.aspx

 

@Real Corona: Thank you for giving up. It was clear you weren't going to add anything to this discussion but insults.

@Russ: The components of the "precious american culture" are indefinite, subjective, and hard to pin down, but I know it when I see it.

Actually, its not even that difficult.I'll give you a hard and fast rule: Players that have actually, you know, LIVED at some point within the United States during their life! It has nothing to do with race. Is that so hard to ask of our supposed "national team?"

If you were a "real american" you'd want "real americans" representing your national team. Otherwise its a national team in name only. Your "win at all costs" attitude towards the national team misses the entire point of even having national teams in the first place.

@DWSmith: I think there are workable standards. For example, FIFA could require that a player in question actually lived within the country he wants to represent at some point in his life prior to an 18th birthday. This is a pretty forgiving test, and would only exclude the most mercenary type players. Even J Jones would pass this test, which was why I never completely opposed him playing for us (he lived here for awhile as a kid).

 

Wow Arsynic! I have lurked here many months without posting but YOU have moved me to finally speaking up. Having been a Sailor for 20+ years and actually defended this country I did serve for your right to your opinion.

But your shortsightedness and rationalizations are just simply the stuff of legend. I have 2 children born in Japan and didn't live in the US until they were 6 years of age. Did they not qualify to be american until then? I guess a difference of opinion is what makes this world go 'round!

 

why 18? Seems arbitrary. Why would fifa impose bright line rules across its constituent federations each with different laws regarding citizenship.

 

Well, feel free to withdraw your objections to Chandler and to compose him a nice little note of apology for calling him a mercenary:

http://www.ussoccer.com/News/Mens-National-Team/2011/03/Chandler-Excited-To-Get-To-Work.aspx


He surely doesn't sound mercenary to me:

 

but I know it when I see it. I believe the BNP wants this line back ant least they want royalties

I believe he referred to FIFA rules for 18th birthday, not US citizenship.

I do not know what FIFA will do in the future, I think a benchmark will be Qatar 2022; How many nationalized players will Qatar field in 2022. If they play with a bunch of Brazilian, African, and European Born players FIFA may make a rule trying to restrict this issue.

Of course every person born in the USA or Born with one parent with USA citizenship will be eligible for the USA NT player pool, just like Rossi was and like German born Americans (or Japan born).

The problem in the long future (after 2022) would be for players like Najar could FIFA restrict players not born with certain citizenship? I would think that would be Illegal in many countries, I do not think FIFA could do much about this.

 

But 3 years is hardly substantial enough to have absorbed the vagaries of americaness, as outlined by Arysnic "Potter Stewart"

Nice try, grumpy.......


sorry, out of rep for you.