Looks like the shine is off the turd.... http://www.torontosun.com/sports/soccer/2011/03/21/17705486.html Four years of shite and a doubling in ticket prices is apparently not the way to woo your crowd....
At least the four years of shite is a bit out of your hands as it's a very competitive business. You can't necesarily control what happens on the field. But you can certainly control your ticket prices. Doubling the price in 4 years, while no doubt trying to maximize revenue, is just stupidity, especially for a consistently losing club.
Wow, toronto fans are really letting the front office know they want a winner or they can go F... them self.
I found it interesting that the article also shows the number of viewers on TSN for the match "Toronto FC’s box-office concerns may be only temporary, with MLS on the rise in Canada. Saturday’s game against the Whitecaps on TSN was the most watched MLS match ever in Canada television, attracting an average audience of 289,000 viewers." Which is a really good number I think.
Winning will solve ALL of Toronto's problems. But damn, winning seems far off. Like a mirage. Only invisible.
The grumbling has certainly started in Seattle (which is what I assume you are hinting at) and, based on an e-mail I just received from the Sounders, "limited tickets" are still available for Friday's game against Houston. If there is a significant price increase for season tickets next year, as is expected, I think you'll see a significant decrease in attendance.
It's more than just the incompetence of the front office. It's the pricing. ML$E was looking to follow the Toronto Maple Leaf model .... which for you non hockey fans basically is this: ticket prices are so high that the majority of seats are in the hands of corporations. The limited number of "normies" split their season packages and hand them down through generations ...... the only exception to this is the cheap seats in the supporters section. The supporters section is in the south end. The north end was built last year and the ticket price is more than DOUBLE the south end .... even though the view is almost identical (slightly, slightly better view). This will not last. TFC is not the Maple Leafs. The other thing is the 'average sports fan' has saved a lot of money ignoring the Blue Jays the last 10 years ..... if they were to have all their pieces fall in the right place and become the new Tampa Bay, they're going to suck up a lot of the summer entertainment dollar at the expense of TFC. I'm sure a lot of other fanbases are ready to have a laugh .... in some ways we deserve it for the arrogance of most fans in the early days.
That is what is available.....here is the full range: http://www.goltv.ca/assets/1/AssetManager/2011Pricing and Seating Chart-SINGLEMar8.pdf Premium matches (which I think the home opener is) have prices for $41 to $121 Also (to ad some context) I just tried to buy 6 in a row to test this out. Yes I was offered tix but in row 31 of section 104.....a little stadium knowledge allows me to know that these are part of the visitor's section and are never sold to locals until around this time. Has the combination of the last 4 years, a horrible pre-season, a leaf playoff(ish) run and a bad weather forecast softened demand for Saturday? No doubt, yes! Will there be a noisy crowd of over 20k @ (I believe) the highest average ticket price in the league....same answer....no doubt, yes!
MetroStars 1996-1998. 1999 was when the bottom dropped out. Worst team in the league. 19-20k+ in attendance the 1st two yrs in MLS (or thereabouts), terribly-run franchise/team. Fans left and didn't come back until the Mathis era. Only difference was Giants Stadium (no downtown venue with public transportation). Similarities were that we got players with international 'pedigrees' that were on the downside of their career or foreign players that produced but the other roster players were sub-standard. And our FO was just about as idiotic. Can't say that a tear is running down my cheek for the formerly arrogant TFC fans.
Yep. Ticket prices are the main reason. MLSE got greedy plain and simple. My season tickets went from $1200 in 2007 to $2700 in 2011 (which ofcourse I didn't pay). TFC have always been a disaster on the field and instead of waiting until the team got to be average or (god forbid) good they just handed us 30% ticket increases year after year.
the only hope for the TFC soccer fans is that MLSE sell to Roger's-- they surely must be a better run organization that want to make a good product MLSE are good at making $$$$$$$$$$, but poor at achieving quality sports teams that are respected and competitive, something that TFC will not be this year still, i am surprised that TFC kept De Ro, especially as captain-- he, like ronaldo of portugal, is incapable of being a leader for others-- they both r individuals who play for themselves and can do some brilliant things, but should NEVER be expected to be the captain aaron winter and his coaching staff have a lot of work ahead and i am not sure that the fans will stay and support another loosing team-- too bad because the TFC fans love soccer and the REDS but like a jilted lover, once the back is turned, it will be very difficult to woo them back i am not sure why the coaching staff has not added some better quality players... the players can not / do not have the ability to play the new system-- TFC will continue to flounder without a complete makeover... and get rid of De Ro as a start
Maybe I'm biased, but I've been a fan of the league a long time, so I think I know something. Seattle has had two winning seasons and two US Open Cups to show for. MLS playoffs aside, not exactly the same situation as Toronto (but even making the playoffs has escaped Toronto). But if the price keeps going up for ST's, Seattle will manage to price themselves out of a lot of renewals. Then they will see what happens to attendance on crappy spring week night games (years in C-bus taught me this).
i cant see how anyone would take any amount of joy what so ever in seeing that fanbase (or any other) shrink due to 1) team failure or 2) FO idiocy. it behooves everyone in MLS to see those large fanbases stay large, it makes the league look good (healthy) and helps pad those league wide average attendance numbers. i want to see a competitive league, not just on the field but also in the stands. i hope TFC gets their shit turned around and the fans actually have something to cheer for. i think its going to be a long long season for that group of people.
I expect the home opener to be a sellout, and after that, until the team starts to prove its worth, I see an average of around 18,500 to 19,000... which is still very solid attendance numbers. I definitely don't think TFC is as bad as they showed against Vancouver, its not very often a team has 60% of possession and allows 4 goals, very poor back four decision by Winter.
I bet you TFC leads the league in possession this year....teams will let them knock the ball around between their back 4 quite a lt.....but utill they can find a way o transition that into forward movement with regularity it won't mean much. Also, if teams know they can have ball for 36 minutes (40%) and score 4 times, I do not think too many tams will be too concerned about being on the shor end of possession. I also think TFC will average over 20k again this year.
You're already busting out "we told you so"????? How about waiting until they fall below 30k, no 25k, no 20k in a single game before gloating? For ******** sakes they could still average 34,000 this year and consider it a poor year by their standards. {Mod edit - keep rivalries talk in rivalries}
Above and beyond the rivalries stuff, this points out the key reason soccer has not caught on north of the Rio Grande. Some teams have to lose. Some will have several losing seasons. And gringo North Americans don't pay to see losing soccer teams for long. IMHO it is much worse in soccer than the "big 4" sports. Don't preach to me how fans in any MLS city are "soccer-mad" if all they want to do is watch Barcelona or ManU and their Harlem Globetrotter acts. Thank God for the playoffs, salary cap, absence of pro/rel, the college draft, and other roster restrictions. Those are the things about MLS that keep the losing teams afloat. Otherwise we might as well appoint Garrison Keillor as commissioner so that all teams can be above average.
There's a big difference between Seattle and Toronto. Seattle has never failed to make the playoffs. Toronto has never made the playoffs. Seattle fans have a reason to feel that their club is going to challenge for silverware for years to come. Their front office knows what they're doing. They'll get ticket pricing right, just like they've got a lot of other things right. It's all about supply & demand. Toronto's front office has been a disaster from day one. If I was a TFC fan, I'd have little faith that things were going to get better in the near future. If DeRosario gets hurt, their current roster would make the Rochester Rhinos blush. Why in the world would somebody buy a season ticket to that charade?
Crapping on each other aside, this is not good news for MLS and TFC. This situation has been boiling under the stands for a few seasons now. What's interesting is the dynamics of what's involved here. Fans are incensed at the ticket price raises year after year, when I say incensed, I mean angry to the point of absolute hatred for MLSE. This is a bad scene and a PR nightmare for TFC given the realtive influence of the nature of organized supporters groups that soccer has. To be slightly contrarian though, there are more season ticket holders now than ever, at 18,000 and so if MLSE are smart, they'll figure out a way to retain that interest. I think the biggest sea change in Toronto however really comes from the fact that there are simply too many games to attend in a season, outside the hardcore. Toronto, like everywhere has massive competition for attendees all summer. Even myself has missed games (only a few mind) cause of city issues or what not. They have front loaded us again this year with home games and it's simply not feasible for the average person to attend all these games. With the added cost of the tickets, people are being more selective about which games to attend. For instance, games vs Colorado, Chivas, Kansas etc just aren;t as attractive a proposition to the AVERAGE fan than New York, Seattle, LA, Chicago etc. So of the 18,000 or so season tickets, tonnes of fans get their few games out of that stockpile and that leaves the FO with 4,000 others to push like they've never had to before. There might be something in the fact that most people assume that all the tickets are gone and don't even bother looking. The one true positive is watching the scalpers taking a bath after gouging everyone for the first couple of years. The honeymoon is over, but TFC is far from in serious decline, we just need a boost from the product.
Makes me appreciate the fans we have in Salt Lake - those first 4 years were rough as we set league records for "worsts"... These challenges can be very good for TFC though - it can help the FO find the true ticket price equilibrium and remind them not to take their fans for granted. Hopefully they react the right way to this and other owners/teams around MLS learn as well.
the questions people are asking about seattle will be answered next year when the "moratorium" on ticket increases after first 3 years is removed. My ECS section tickets cost me $267 this year. If the moratorium is lifted, then they will be $440. And that will be a challenge to keep the mojo up. Realize in Seattle there are about 20% of the STHs that did not get in the door in 2008/2009 that are subject to higher pricing. The other 80% are at the original pricing that has only increased 3% each season. So we will see what happens. I for one hope moratorium is extended...but that will really reside on the fact of Seattle bringing a trophy home that is other than USOC. If Seattle wins MLS CUP for example, bet your ass ticket prices will all make that 30% hike (at least for the original season ticket holders).