After reading your various posts, it is clear that your position is SSS or nothing. In your eyes, the MLS will only work and be taken seriously in Atlanta if a dedicated stadium is built specifically for the team to be the primary tenants. High school football, concerts, etc. can be used to fill out the schedule, but MLS Atlanta and not the Falcons should be the main attraction - if I am understanding you correctly. Basically a Red Bull Arena in the ATL, right? But then you say this: Which is what Blank's proposed stadium sounds like. The linked article on page one of this thread pretty much says that the new Falcons stadium would be designed similarly to Qwest to meet the needs of both the Falcons and an MLS team. Much like Qwest, the MLS side would be the primary tenant during the summer and would only have marginal overlap with the Falcons once the NFL season starts. Also like Seattle, the two teams would be owned by the same man/group. They would play in a stadium designed for both sports and controlled by the same man/group. The stadium, again like Seattle, would be located in/near the city center/population base. Based on the information provided, MLS Atlanta could turn out to be Seattle number 2. Of course it could turn out like New England as well. On the surface, New England has a lot of the same things working for them that Seattle has. Except the stadium was not designed with soccer in mind; it is not set up to create a virtual SSS the way Qwest is. Unlike Qwest, Gillette sits well outside of the city; in fact, it is situated in a low population area between Boston and Providence. That would be like building the stadium in Greenville, SC to cater to Atlanta and Charlotte. Also, Kraft was an original owner and has benefited from the expansion fees and other league related returns on his initial investment, whereas Blank would be looking to recoup an estimated $40-50 million expansion fee. It is doubtful that even a billionaire would throw away that kind of money blindly, even with a modern stadium being on the line. One would think that Blank would have enough interest in building the MLS Atlanta brand to work towards recouping his investment... Besides, not every team with a SSS has been successful. Sure Colorado and Dallas played in the MLS Cup this year, but neither has drawn well since their respective SSS opened. Chivas plays at the Home Depot to much smaller crowds than the Galaxy (though many arguments can be made explaining this). Chicago's support has been on the decline since moving to Toyota Park. Don't get me wrong, I am a huge support of the SSS concept. I just do not think they are the end all be all of successful MLS teams, as you seem to. Purely from a stadium standpoint, being able to control the stadium seems to be the most important issue. I would follow that with layout and then location. It seems to me that a team controlled NFL stadium designed for soccer (virtual SSS) in the population center beats a SSS on the outskirts of town any time. Mimicking Seattle should be much more successful for Atlanta than mimicking Dallas or Colorado...
Honestly - if the Falcons are dead set on putting their stadium a few blocks from the Dome - the Atlanta soccer team (when and if it comes around), should do what they seem to stubborn to...buy the land where the old GM plant is in Doraville and put it there, along with a mixed use development. The land is likely pretty cheap, is centrally locatd, and on a MARTA line.
LOL. And I'm a finance major. So college makes you smart, right? LMAO. Dude, you are either a troll or an idiot of universal proportions. I have known a long time that Blank has wanted a stadium. In fact, it was known he wanted one when he got the Falcons. The fact that the stadium is going to cost 700 million dollars in comparison to Quest's 430 million just shows the lack of oversight on your part. Quest field looks amazing but what MORE does Blank need to spend to make it a colossal failure of epic proportions. It's like he needs to show who's e-penis is biggest. You are one of the more mature posters in this thread. Thank you. Unfortunately soccer is not the biggest sell in Atlanta. The problem is, an outdoor football stadium will cost a pretty dime and the taxpayers will put up a big fight. What is wrong with the Dome? I don't care for American football at all (stop go every 5 minutes? Oh god shoot me). What the heck are they going to do with the Dome? It was a haven for a lot of events. The guys who profited from them will miss the Falcons being the main source of income for them. Honestly, I will give this team a try if it is in a football stadium but it won't look 'authentic' in my eyes until they get their own place. As a former competitive ODP/club/high school player only removed from a couple of years, I can honestly tell you authenticity goes a LONG way toward success. A great example is TFC. They have really done well. I honestly think a mid sized stadium is what Atlanta is searching for. Soccer is a sport that is affordable for the family and the vast majority of NFL fans are being overpriced on season tickets, which is forcing them to become television viewers instead. Let me tell you this. I said that because otherwise I would not be a soccer fan in the first place. IMO, an SSS is needed in the city of Atlanta to have some legitimacy. MLS is not helping it's image by playing in NFL stadiums (Seattle is the exception due to their cultural background as a city and that is a disputed fact. It is no wonder that Seattle has been a huge success). Atlanta is NOT Seattle. It doesn't have Drew Carey. It doesn't have a history of NASL success or any nostalgia that makes people want to reminisce the good times. Are you really this gullible? Atlanta isn't Seattle. It is more like New England but New England's is in the middle of now where (Gillette stadium that is). No it does not and yet you undermine your statement above with the statement below. Dude, you are absolutely horrible when it comes to splitting your paragraphs when it is needed. One thing, if this Falcons stadium does pull through I can promise you that you will not see an SSS. IMO, the 'opportunity' to making Atlanta a "global city" via an authentic SSS will have had passed. Fixed. I like your idea a lot. However, the only billionaire we have is Arthur and he's a greedy SOB. You do know that the Silverbacks stadium is only a couple of miles north of where the Doraville station is? (near spaghetti junction).
The city of Doraville has already decreed, by vote of the council, at the request of the citizens, that there would not be a stadium built on that site. They would never grant the permits for it. It happened a couple of years ago, and was sort of under the radar, so don't feel bad if you missed it.
Seattle's not the only case out there. DC United has looked fine in RFK Stadium--the issues with that place have nothing to do with how the crowd looks. NE even looked pretty good in the early years of MLS in the old Foxboro. The question isn't whether it can draw 36,000 like Seattle. Half of that could be made to work. There are a lot of hurdles to climb with regard to making an MLS team work in an NFL stadium, but the point he was making is that an MLS team with an NFL organization behind it and pushing it, one that is in a convenient location and has an excellent lease, has a better chance of working in an NFL stadium than a soccer-specific stadium has of getting built in Atlanta in the first place.
First of all, leave the boys club for some fresh air for a while and do realize that there are women soccer fans out there (i.e. ME). Secondly, you're the one who said you were unsure whether Arthur Blank would put up money for the stadium, not me. Thirdly, I was saying that I am training as an Architect to show you that there are other folks on here who are knowledgeable about the subject as well, and that other folks can *GASP* have an opinion as well. You shooting down what others have to say waters down your own argument. And last, you're right, Atlanta is not Seattle, meaning that whatever MLS venue the city gets will have to be multi-functional catering to more popular interests, which probably means it will be worked in with the New Georgia Dome. Money is short these days. And between a new NFL multi-functional stadium for the rejuvenated Falcons and taking the risk on a SSS for a possible MLS franchise that's still up in the air, the logical and reasonable thing would be to go with the NFL stadium. Now see how I made a statement actually agreeing with one of your points without resorting to name calling and emotion-filled posts? So once again, get off your high horse.
Don't let this guy wreck your day. Most of what I've read from him seems to teeter on the edge of rationality but I guess it takes all kinds. To give you a little backing, I'm a professional architect with considerable experience with very large assembly buildings and theaters etc. The idea that MLS and NFL teams can coexist in the same stadium is completely rational and correct. To design a building that works for both - 22 to 25k in the lower bowl with plenty of suites close to the field + large upper decks to accommodate NFL crowds. A perfectly reasonable proposition and an interesting design problem. Qwest is only one model, others could certainly be designed and built.
That is a fair point. But you do realize that "Soccer Specific Stadium" is a relatively new term, right? MLS came up with the concept to gain momentum to get the new stadiums built. Think about this: Old Trafford is more similar to Qwest than it is to the HDC, for example. From everything you've said, Qwest is not a SSS. Would you also say that Old Trafford is not an SSS? I think you misunderstood my point. You might be the only one: Obviously I know that Atlanta is different from Seattle. Stan hit the nail on the head. If I was writing an essay - or even a blog - I would probably be more mindful of that. But I am not. I am merely posting on a forum during down time at work. My paragraph breaks fit within standard English guidelines and reflect my stylistic choices. There are transition sentences bridging the paragraphs as well. I believe you mentioned being a finance major. Stick to that. My MA and teaching certification in English says that my posts are perfectly fine for informal communication.
New Meadowlands Stadium is obviously the golden standard to look up to right now, but I was thinking Atlanta could have something closer to Qwest Field as a cheaper, but still very good, option.
Agreed that the design will have to have an MLS team in mind though, let's be clear, what is good for the Falcons will be driving the Stadium bus. Blank will want to maximize his Falcon dollars because that is the known quantity and is (nearly) assured money. An MLS team is more risky. I am not an architect so I would like to hear your and Mesa opinion on this. What is the optimal ratio between lower and upper bowl? Meaning that Blank is looking for a 65-70,000 seat stadium so is the ratio 1/3 lower to 2/3 upper (i.e. 22k lower to 44k upper) or what? Just curious from a design perspective what works well.
This thread is too funny. Mesa is the one being emotional, especially saying that she's female. I guess just because she's a 'she', we need to give her more 'leeway' and 'cushion' in arguments? That is a double standard. I criticize the idea of MLS being in a Atlanta outdoor football stadium because I think it won't work. When the Atlanta Beat played at Georgia Tech stadium, it was good. Why? Because it wasn't in a 60,000 seat stadium. If Atlanta were to get a team, don't be surprised if they only average as much as New England. Even 10,000 fans was big back in the day of when Atlanta Beat played at Georgia Tech.
The Dome isn't going anywhere. The current plan is to have 2 stadiums downtown(which is stupid). The only way there would only be one is if it is a retractable roof stadium which for some reason Blank doesn't want(which is again, stupid). The Peach Bowl, the SEC Championship, basketball tournaments like the Final Four and the SEC tourney will only be played in a domed stadium. They also have conventions and other things in the dome that they wouldn't be able to have. The Falcons are the main tenant but they certainly aren't a majority of the income in the Dome these days. There are 3 college football games in the Dome now(and about to be 4 with another Chick Fil A kickoff game) that all sell out and do just as well as the Falcons games and there are only 8 Falcons games a year.
Do you honestly believe that an MLS team downtown wouldn't outdraw the old WUSA women's team? A SSS would be ideal, but if my option is play in a football stadium downtown designed with soccer also in mind or not have a MLS team at all it is a pretty easy choice. If we are going to get a team with a SSS, it won't be owned by Arthur Blank.
If the only way to get MLS in Atlanta is with Blank and the Falcons in a Soccer Compatible Stadium, bring it on! Soccer is just not popular enough yet in the US, especially in the South, to call the shots. We the fans have to take what we can get and carry the game forward. I would love a SSS on a MARTA line as home for a MLS team. Or a joint venture stadium with Georgia State to share with the Panthers football & soccer teams. However, it seems that a new NFL stadium compatible for soccer is the most viable option to house a MLS team. But even a new stadium is not a done deal - it might be a hard sell for Atlanta, given the economic realities of city government. Having 2 stadiums downtown doesn't make sense to a lot of people.
Very well written. Ok fine I will be on board with a MLS team in Atlanta in a football stadia. I just think what AtlantaFan said makes a lot of sense, especially the two stadium in Atlanta part. It won't work. The taxpayers will put up a good fight. I just wish another investr or a big group with deep pockets would come along and splash some bucks on a RBNY-esq stadia next to a MARTA rail line and just north of central Atlanta. I swear it would make Blank blush and jealous because he knows there is money to be made in MLS. It has such a bright future. We, in the this thread, know this. I'm sorry to mesa for ragging on you. I'm just emotional about this issue since Atlanta is a huge youth soccer participant and has many ethnicities that it would thrive with an MLS team. We deserve better. We deserve a true SSS.
What the heck are you talking about? I recall one other person saying that they also have experience with the subject of construction, and you yourself said that you were a finance major, rightly to give more credence to your argument. I never said lay off of me. I said to stop referring to me as "dude" and get off your high horse becasue everyone here is in agreement on the fact that you are acting like a prime douche. It's fantastic that you have an opinion on this subject. So would it kill you to listen to what other folks have to say about it as well? Getting back on subject: While I'm sitting here watching the Galaxy-Sounders game, I have to say it's very hard for this NFL/Soccer fan not to get a little giddy about a nice stadium like this. As such, after seeing Qwest Field in it's active glory, I want the Georgia Dome gone. GONE. I've had some great memories there, but it's time we've had an upgrade. There is no way that Blank is going to be content with the city building a completely new stadium for purposes other than the NFL and leaving the Dome as the Falcons home to rot. 2 stadiums?! What are these officials thinking?!? It may take a few years, but the Georgia Dome is going down. Arthur Blank, as well as city officials, want to take the city to the next level to "maintain it's world class status". If the city wants to get the most bang for it's buck trying to do this, including the possible inclusion of a new franchise, a multi-functional NFL stadium is the only logical option at this point. Although, if we can get MARTA to get their act together, then a Doraville stop on the line could be an option. I mean, downtown is already packed with tons of cool stuff. I'm starting to think our potential crown jewel needs an area of its own. I have to disagree with you on this. Everyone knows that the South has had plenty failures in trying to get a franchise going. 80% of the city doesn't even know about the Silverbacks or the Beat. This is Braves and colloge football country where SEC aren't even allowed to field men's soccer teams. The Falcons are hot. And this is coming from one of the proudest Atlantans you will meet. The city doesn't deserve or need a SSS right now. And the city certainly isn't going to build one on the HOPE that MLS will bring a franchise here. But you know what does look guaranteed and is something the city will spend money on? The success of the NFL team. I will say this again: THE FALCONS ARE HOT. Arthur Blank is going to take full advantage of their success to push for a new stadium to be built. If it's a beautiful multi-functional stadium like Qwest or New Meadowlands that works efficiently, what's the problem with it?!?
That is an excelent insight. As both a student at GSU and a huge supporter of MLS in the city I would enjoy both at more at a stadium of 20K more then one of 65-72K. And before the economy when in the tank Blank was in talks with KSU about buliding a stadium for their possible football team(at that point in time it was not a done deal) and a MLS team of his own. So if that was the case then, it seems like a no brainer to do the samething downtown where the location is even better then out up 75.
I know that this as nothing at all to do with this thread but those that are worried about what will happen to the Dome or thinks it needs to go I can answer some of your questions. IF a new stadium is to be built, the Dome will be around for at least another 15 years according to the GWCCA. The Dome has contractual obligations to the likes of the SEC football championship and basketball tourney, the NCAA for at least one Final Four, the Chic-fil-a Bowl, and I would imagine also the NHRA and Supercross. These events will continue to go to the dome since it is well a dome. The new stadium will be open air, as it should be, since sports like football and soccer are you know meant to be played outside.