And still i notice that I am caring about and focusing on the peace process and everything which actually could help it rather than hurt it while many of you seem to focus only on the individual Yassin and his life record. Look, sharon has permitted sabra and chatila, sharon permitted the slaughter of thousands ppl in 2 days (not 300, thousands). Yet the targeted killing of sharon would hurt the peace process and I really don't want that to happen. That's why any state in the world (apart from israel - but many critics came from inside israel too) criticized heavily this assassination. That's why even bush admin openly criticized it.
Really? Cause I sure as hell didn't see you make a fuss about the Ashdod port attack, which could have killed hundreds if the bombers blew themselves up next to the right vat of chemicals or crate of explosives. And I sure as hell didn't see you make a fuss about the fact that TWICE in the past week the Palestinians have tried to use suicide bombers 14 and under. Maybe if "those who focused on the peace process" focused on stopping such atrocities, Israel wouldn't have to take out one of the men who masterminds them. Actually, it was hundreds. And he didn't "permit" anything. He was at fault because he failed to adequately consider the fact that Christian Lebanese might slaugher Muslim Lebanese.
Whatever the case might be, Sharon was the one who went and has a summit with Abu Abbas (former) in Aquaba, Jordan with Bush and was the one who agreed to remove settlements. Including all the settlements in the Gaza strip and remote ones in Judah and Samaria. So in a way, he is for peace, but the stumbling block for peace is the fact that Hamas still attacks. The organization has a double face approach. They can be quite and remain with a cease-fire like mode, while 2 hours later they can send 2 suicide bombers to attack and kill a dozen. Thats how moody they change from time to time. From what i can say, Israel, on any Prime Minister that it had, was willing to negotiate and commit to peace. I know that Sharon doesn't looks that blique since were in the middle of a very problematic situation. Only if the palestinian militants stop to attack, than most offense Palestinians will get is a peace negotiations.
Yes, Yes..... In a way you don't want Yassin to get killed, but in another way your all protective of the peace process... The only reason that the peace process is in ruins is because of Hamas, the leader Yassin and his onslaught of terror that has been going on for over a decade. The killing of Yassin should look promising, but for you it looks like its the end of the peace process. Well, im sorry to be the one who has to break the news to you, but the reason why Oslo died was because of Hamas and there rejection to it. You can call whatever you want to Yassin and see him in whatever point of you... But he was the one who preached daily in the mosque in the early-mid 90's about how every palestinian/arab/muslim should reject the Oslo. And he was successful at that. Now...did any leaders try to critizise that? Or are these leaders opposed to the Oslo agreement? Perhaps there are....let me find a few of your budz.... Muhammed Ghaddafi, Ayatollah Khatami, Mahkthim Mohammed, Saddam Hussien, Bashar Assad, and so on.... With Sharon and Sabra/Shatillia... Thats jibberish. You still ignore the fact that days before the incident, the Christian leader was assasinated by Pro-Syrian/Palestinian gurillas who came from those 2 camps. Including the fact that as many as 35-45 people were also killed or maimed in those days. The Phalangist wanted revenge. Especially for the Crime that your friernds from the PLO and the Syrian army did in the village of D'ha'mour (sp?). So they took revenge. Sharon did not authorize it! Sharon did not supply information on it? Sharon did nothing. Yet, he got blamed cause the SLA was an ally of Israel. Something at first rejected by the west, but later filled with brainwash thanks to 'Arab Intellects' spreading the good word. It can be many cases, But when you read the condemnation, you also forgot that many of them saw that Israel has a right to defend itself. And Israel did. Israel went after a threat. Now, would the U.S or coalition troops get condemend if Saddam was to be killed. After all, his predecessor sons were both killed and even show on the net of there dead bodies... what happened to the Condemnation. But hey, sardinia.....you proved a good point.. Double Standard and accusation against Israel non stop!!!
This is a deeply stupid statement. The peace process is in ruins because too many influential people on both sides have no interest peace. Too many people on both sides are in denial about the futility of tit-for-tat violence. Too many people are like Kappa18 and Sharon and approve of any violence as long as it's carried out by the Israeli government against Palestinians. The assasination of Yassin can be defended (not a slam dunk, though) on ethical grounds but not on strategic ones. Killing religious leaders who espouse violence does not reduce the likelihood of continuing violence by their followers. Nor is it likely to persuade their passive supporters that there are other routes than violence.
From http://www.counterpunch.org/niva03242004.html "Indeed, this striking pattern has become even more frequent and predictable since Ariel Sharon became Prime Minister in February 2001 and escalated Israel's assassination campaign against Palestinian militant leaders, particularly when the militant groups were involved in negotiating or upholding cease-fires on attacks on Israeli civilians." and "Writing in Haaretz newspaper on January 18, 2002, Israeli analyst Uzi Benziman noted that there seems to be "a pattern of Israeli behavior that has recurred since Sharon began running the country: When a period of calm prevails in the confrontation with the Palestinians, circumstances are created that induce Israel to carry out military operation in a manner that renews, or accelerates, the cycle of violence."
No. The PLO charter asks for the destruction of Israel, and considering they still demand the right of return, there are absolutely no indications that the Palestinian leadership wants peace. While I am receptive to arguments that Sharon does not either, it has to be unerstood that Sharon's government can fall from power democratically if enough people feel differently. If the Palestinians wanted, a non-violent movement would have solved this years ago, as I keep saying. If you shame the Israelis into seeing that Sharon is too hardline, end the attacks, get reasonable world opinion on your side, Israel would have no choice but to cave. They don't want to kill Palestinians, and most Israelis don't really want to live in the West Bank either. The problem is that the Palestinian leadership is morally bankrupt. No, it is not their fault entirely, but I've seen absolutely no proof that they'll stop attacking if they just get the West Bank and Gaza. The appeasement analogy does not work with Iraq; it works perfectly here. What in the world suggests to you that a corrupt leader like Arafat, who's built a personal fortune and a tight internal security apparatus while supporting terrorism and promising Palestinians ALL of Israel will stop attacks? You can yell about Sharon all you like; in the end, Arafat is far more responsible. If the Palestinians had someone like MLK or Gandhi, these things would not be an issue. The more this goes on the more I start siding with Loney's view. Which is dangerous, but as soon as the Israeli-Palestinian problem becomes irrelevant to the Middle East, you'll find that it will be solved quickly. The Arab nations that continue to exploit the conflict to inflame their oppressed constituents will need to find something else to focus on.
Again, my opinion is backed by USA and the rest of the world. And ppl trying to wash the hands of sharon regarding sabra and chatila share the same (mine) consideration and judgement as those who try to paint yassin as a good man. No way you can make me to believe that sharon didn't know what maronites were going to do if left in there. And btw during the first hours the IDF that surrounded the place impeding ppl to run away from the camp sent plenty of reports. An issue I am not going to discuss. Anyone has his own opinion, this is my way to show that I have no double standards. Ethically for me Yassin was sh1t. Sharon, the same, being him israeli's PM, defense minister or else. p.s. http://www.geocities.com/shatila1982/shatila.html
I dont think any Israeli leader in the past and today has rejected peace. To say that Sharon or even I don't want piece is ridicoulous! Sharon was the one who went and wanted to disengage and start fresh talks. Of course the last 3 1/2 years of violence and mayhem has proved time and time again that when you offer the hand of peace all you get back is attacks and favours as to why the attack was needed. Just think, if the militants were to have been dissolved and a Moderate palestinian climate would have occured...think how easy it would be to make peace. .... Instead, we live with extremism and the threat of jihad, just for signing the oslo accords. It does so. Killing him only shows that no one who preaches hate and violence is going to get amnesty for his acts. Israel played it well, and now Hamas is in fear. Sort of like when they were when there mastermind bomber got duelled in a bomb trap in 1995 @ Gaza.... what happened from that point onward? Virtually all suicide attacks from the Gaza strip became obsolete!
that this guy was liquidated ny israel is fine with me. lets face it. americans are not very sympathetic to the palestinians, for the most part. america is not france. the arabs have conned most of europe into feeling sympathetic to their cause. nobody here believes it. i will say that the west bank settlements are a problem. and the undue influence of orthodox jews in israeli society is a problem. the israeli government is intimidated by the haddsim, it seems to me. but i still don't really care that this guy got knocked off. he got what he deserved.
Before this the Kuwaitis and the other gulf arabs didn’t want to butt in this problem!! Now the Arabs are pissed!! In Kuwait they were burning Israeli flags, before this the Kuwaitis didn’t care about isreal!! They didn’t hate them but they didn’t love them either! They were the same as the Nigerians, the Portuguese!! But now they are pissed like never before!! The conflict will rise!! In the newspaper it showed all the protests in the different arab contries!! It was a very stupid act!! Just as things were getting better…
Well... that site I mentioned is really interesting... I suggest reading this interview to an ex-phalangist. He talks about who trained them, who armed them, who paid them and which was their role. http://www.geocities.com/shatila1982/interview.html Yeah I know I told I was not going to discuss it... but this interview was a surprise... it is really really interesting.
nobody in the west cares when they see flags being burned by a bunch of illiterate yobs. i got used to it back in 79 during the iranian revolution. they can chant slogans all they want and i just laugh at them. "usa, usa, great satan," yada yada yada. as for this turd the israelis knocked off, good riddance to him.
its not just burning the flags they are going to be tenagers who want to fight for isreal know!! illerate yobs my ass patickm!! it was in the uni of chemichal engineer!1 and anyways u have a problem!!
Jordan is Palestine. Palestine is Jordan. In three years of fighting in Korea, the United States lost 33,600. In one year of fighting in Iraq, the United States has lost 600. 600 is 1.7% of 33,600. If casualties continue at this rate, the U.S. will have lost about 5-and-change percent of what it lost in Korea (assuming there is fighting over a three year period) with better end results. Pretty damn good, if you ask me. Dave, please get a grip. I hate to be a scold, but I'm not calling people names on these boards, so stop it right now. You were content having Saddam around. Just like the French and Germans--those perennial America lovers. Have fun laying in bed with them. We'll see what happens on April 28. I warn you, I'll be merciless.
do you agree that this man was a sworn enemy of israel? do you agree that he was a central figure in hamas, a terorist organization? do you agree that this man preached that israel should be destroyed? if any of the above are true, then they had the right to kill him. they have the right to defend themselves. the people of israel have the basic right to live normal lives.
Three questions for you Chocolate. 1) What did Kuwait do to its resident Palestinians after Saddam was kicked out of Kuwait? 2) Why? 3) Is it ok with you, or is it ok with other Kuwaitis, if Israel does the same thing?
Hmmmm..How intresting.... Sardinia decides to post a interview which is rather baseless about someone who is a phalangist christian, who probably doesn't have a name and probably never will talk about the Sabra and Shatillia incidents, when at the same time...not even witness it, but throw basic numbers and facts... Yes...He got paid by israel money, but if he was wise (which shows that it was fabricated) than he would have been there between 1980 and 82, cause that is when israel got engaged with lebanon... Try something else Sardinia...
The Kuwaitis never really had there nose out of the israeli-arab conflict. They were always vibrant about it. When it started and how it is going on right now. After the Gulf War, many thought Kuwait would make peace with israel. Since they got liberated and freedom could take place. Instead, cockyness came out. Not only were they backstabbed by Iraq & much of the Arab world, they were primarily backstabbed by the palestinains who were 'agents' for Iraq. Many of the palestinians were treated bad and much of them are still a hated sentiment. But that is somrthing that kuwait will reconcile ofcourse. The biggest dispute Kuwait and the Palestinains have is to actually recognize that they helped Iraq, which many PA leaders dismiss. Either way, Kuwait refused to sign peace treaty with israel. They expected that if they sign a peace treaty with israel, it will be signed when there will be peace and not when there is trouble with other arab nations (forgetting palestinians) like Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, etc.. But im not worried about Kuwait. Kuwait is peanut, once u see what U.A.E did, in banning people who got israel stamped on there passport. Bahrain and Qatar did alot of improvements in getting relations with israel but later downgraded it. It was very informal relations and much of it was base on trade. Oman was the same. oooo kuwait, kuwait, kuwait... And i was planning on having my passover holiday in Dubai...what a shame
It was so tempting to answer this one...so as i may: 1) What did Kuwait do to its resident Palestinians after Saddam was kicked out of Kuwait? Kuwaitis long suspected that Palestinains were agents of Saddam hussien and its regime. After the gulf war the evidence came true. Palestinains who found refuge in Kuwait after the 48, 67, & 73 as well as King Hussiens Massacre on Black September were backstabbing Kuwait. So Kuwaitis took matter and evicted alot of palestinains. Many of them were thrown in man-made trench-holes in the hot dessert and locked up! It was women and children as well. Many got there property confiscated and others got shot to death. Kuwaiti authority didnt do much about it. 2) Why? Cause the kuwaitis thought they were being backstabbed by Palestinains who have a very big name prior to 1991. They helped them find success and refugee and then all of a sudden they get the the hand. So Kuwait wanted to disengage with the palestinains and not have anything to do with them. Some wanted to take revenge. Many vigilantis were Kuwaitis who lost loved ones.... So they took there fustration out on the palestinains. Note: For all Americans When Saddam hussien gave up, he fired a missile at a American compound killing a couple of soliders in Kuwait. After hearing about it, i found out that it was a palestinains who told them of the target and the location of this area. 3) Is it ok with you, or is it ok with other Kuwaitis, if Israel does the same thing? Just like asing if its alright for Syrians to massacre kurds. In the arab world there is a clear and present double standard. The whole Arab/Islamic world screams mercy when Palestinains are being the 'victim' but when there own people are victim, than it has to be analyzed first. Any wrong moves can set a tone for a civil war. A war that can seperate the Arab-African world and the Arab-Asian world for example. Thats why, Arabs would still, after 50+ years, want israel ruined, while never once speak out of the horrors that happen to Kurds or Smaller ethnic minority....or even Christians who were well over a million in 1950 to just about 300,000 (or not even!) in the middle east...
For thsoe who saw that yassin was innocent... Let me say this... Yes, Yassin was weak and harmless... he was in a wheel chair, and half blind as some people noted... But he was not as innocent as thought. he did create a terror group, which was known to killing Israeli Civilians as well as targeting ocassionally the PA. the U.S as well as other countries outlawed this group and considered them a terror organization. Eventhough Hamas wanted to show there power, by terrorisin israel and weakning the PA, especially in Jenin, and the Gaza strip...they also had Hospitals, Community Centers and Mosques that were runned by Hamas. These were well funded and very rich areas. In a place where many suffer like the gaza strip...Hamas all of a sudden comes out big. So that is why many palestinains who reject peace seem to admire them ... But what really caught my eye is someone who kinda resmebled to Yassin. He is in jail right now, and not only did he commit the crime of murdering former Egyptian President Anwar Sadat... He is also the mastermind behind the 1993 World Trace Center Bombing, which inevetably set the blue print for what occured on the hurrondous day on 9/11. Yet, wouldn't it not happen if he was just taken outside and shot 4 times in the head? I know it may sound cruel...but it would have stopped the horrific events that he had done.....wouldnt it... Does anyone know who im talking about? ...... So for all the people who called this man an innocent, wheel bound man, who did absoultely nothing.... Maybe u should remember the name of the guy in the picture... Kappa18
Sure the interview is just an interview to an unnamed person. But you're Mr. Ingenuous or Mr. Simpleton if you really think that Israel got involved in Lebanon only between 1980 and 1982.
The man is unnamed, cause there is no one who was interview. It was either made up of some sort... Israel did FULLY engange in Lebanon in 1980-1982. That is when the operation Peace in Gallile began right after the PLO who found a safe haven in Lebanon began firing artillery into israeli territory. Israel responded with full defensive measures. Prior to the 1980's, when attacks still began. And the Civil war (ironically) had erupted, Israel went into lebanon and created a buffer zone. That was around 1976 or 1977. Other than that, we never really engagned in any other sort of activities in Lebanon after 1982. But with the Interivew...look at it this way... The guy claims he was born in lebanon, instead of giving a village or a city, does not give a name, and while he says he left Lebanon before the Civil war erupted or just when it actually erupted (1975), than how can have any knowledge about Israel insutructing Phlangist to go inside the camps and do whatever they like. If that is the case, he might have still been in lebanon in 1982. But he wasn't. He was in exile... so as you see, your fraudy-shammy interivw, that you got from that Geocities web site is full of air... Try something harder Sardina...im sure you will do fine hehehehe
Look who thought it was a bad idea According to Tuesday's edition of the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz (http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/407397.html), Sharon's Justice Minister, his Interior Minister and the head of Shin Bet all were opposed to the assassination. In other words, the government officials most likely to have to cope with the consequences of the assassination thought it was a bad idea.
Re: For thsoe who saw that yassin was innocent... It should also be noted, that Geronimo and Sitting Bull were also considered terrorists by the US government. The US and UK stole Palestine from the Palestinians. You can argue the Old Testament all you want but the reason is simply because they didn't want Jews in Europe or immigrating to the US after WWII and they had to put them somewhere. It was this evil axis (the US, UK, and Zionist movement) that then forged the modern Isreali State out of Palestinian blood. Palestine has every right to fight for its land. This is not a policy issue, this is a war. A war that my ancestors lost in America. A war that cost 600 million lives and the extinction of entire nations. The same fate awaits Palestine now. Isreal claims to be defending it's sovereignty. I say what claim to national rights do you have when you encroach on the rights of others? The settlers are not "innocent civilians", they are active participants in atrocities committed against the Palestinian people. The US has been content to simply sit back and watch. If only the Muslim lobby was as strong in the US as the Jewish lobby (second only to AARP, by the way). Isreal is the only nation in the world that stands in open defiance of UN resolutions without suffering any condemnation. It is the only nuclear nation that refuses UN inspector access to it's reactors and facilities. And it manages all this on American taxpayer money. I, for one, am sick of seeing American bullets ripping through Palestinian children and American attack helicopters and f-16's shooting rockets into ramshackle houses and cars on busy streets. These weapons were developed to protect America, not to be sold to rogue despot states like Isreal that think they can do as they please and have no one lift an eyebrow. They were intended for tanks and bunkers, not mudbrick houses. Isreal wants entry into the EU now and a place on the UN security council...that would be like giving a monster a medal for being a monster.