The King's Tactics :: How Will The Team Change?

Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by Twenty26Six, Jan 9, 2011.

  1. liverbird

    liverbird BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 29, 2000
    Mars
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We might score goals just for fun then
     
  2. StiltonFC

    StiltonFC He said to only look up -- Guster

    Mar 18, 2007
    SoCal
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    tru dat!

    i don't think Liverpool FC is going to pitch many shutouts against THS, TRS, TRM, TOM( Spurs, ManU, Chelsea, Citeh ), but that lineup could outscore anyone.
     
  3. Suss

    Suss Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 11, 2003
    New York
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    I think we will Gerrard and Meireles interchanging positions, with Lucas playing as the holding midfielder. In Gerrard's 30 minutes before getting sent off, he seemed to be dropping deeper in the midfield to get more touches on the ball. I hope to see our midfield be more fluid, with all 3 making runs forward and covering for each other. We will be less predictable and more difficult to defend.
     
  4. Matt Clark

    Matt Clark Member

    Dec 19, 1999
    Liverpool
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    As Hansen pointed out on MOTD yesterday, the key distinction between the team under Dalglish and the team under Hodgson is that there are now three midfielders up to support Torres whenever we have the ball and are moving forward. There was one point yesterday where Torres went into the left channel after a chip from Kuyt and when he looked up he had Kuyt, Mereiles and Maxi to cross too. No wonder he's got a bit of a smile and a spring in his step back.
     
  5. Red Bird

    Red Bird Member+

    Sep 30, 2003
    Oxford
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    ... not to mention the shock and utter awe of the defenders, as they have to deal with 4 other players breaking forward. For the third goal, after a zillion passes, Berra played Kuijt onside because he was so busy worrying about Torres who was loitering on his shoulder. Tactics as old as LFC itself, last seen consistently in 1988, and only sporadically during Benitez's stewardship.
     
  6. ForeverRed

    ForeverRed Member+

    Aug 18, 2005
    NYC
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    You know, when you put it that way it seems almost revolutionary!
     
  7. ULL NEVER WALK ALONE

    Sep 29, 2004
    Chile
    Club:
    Liverpool LFC
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    Gerrard does the job for England at LM. Surely he can play there or at RM at L'pool. Suarez and Gerrard supporting Carroll will be a handfull for any defence in the EPL.

    Lucas Meireles
    Gerrard Carroll Suarez​
     
  8. Bobinhood

    Bobinhood Member

    Apr 22, 2005
    Toronto
    We still dont have a whole heck of a lot of depth, the only thing that has really changed is we now have 2 strikers instead of 1. KK is still going to have to chop and change here and there. The other day he like Raul ahead of Gerrard, but will that last?

    Pepe

    Kelly Cara Agger Johnson Skrtl and Fabio as alternates

    Thats already much better on d


    Kuyt Lucas Gerrard Raul Maxi and cough Cole as alternates

    This is a bit of a problem, our best 4 mids are 3 cm's and a ss. You tell me how he lines em up. Of that lot only Stevie can play on the wing.


    Surez and Carroll Ngog and Pacheco as alternates

    cant wait, could terrorize,


    Maybe 4-3-1-2 with stevie behind the strikers? Pretty attacking.
     
  9. drobny23

    drobny23 Member+

    Jun 18, 2007
    Nashville, TN
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    When we were a one-striker team, Lucas-Meireles-Gerrard could all play centrally. For the first few weeks they'll still be able to do that, but when Carroll pulls a reverse Aquilani (a transfer actually making a timely return from injury) and spearheads the attack, we'll have 3 CMFers and 2 CMF jobs open. All three CMF need to be on the field:

    Lucas needs to play DMF. Meireles sucks on the wing but is terrific centrally. Also, Steven Gerrard is a pretty good footballer (Sarcasm) and should play centrally.

    If anything, this formation squeezes Meireles, who played well under the King in the space behind Torres and in front of Gerrard. That space will be Suarezville in the future.

    It's a tactical dilemna considering our wide players lack the form (quality) to justify excluding any of the three.

    But, you can only line up XI, sooooo

    Kelly--Carra--Agger--Johnson
    -----------Lucas------------
    --Kuyt-----RM/SG-----SG/RM
    --------Suarez--------------
    -----------Carroll-----------
     
  10. foosball

    foosball New Member

    May 1, 2003
    So what about a 4-3-3? You knowthe AC Milan/Chelsea under JM type?

    Gerrard---Raul----Lucas
    Kuyt----Carroll---Suarez
     
  11. Kawklee

    Kawklee BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 30, 2008
    Miami
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    4-3-3 of

    --------Reina--------
    Kelly-Carra-Agger-John
    ----=---Lucas--------
    --------------Meireles
    -----Gerrard----------
    Kuyt------------------
    -------Carroll---Suarez

    Doesn't seem that bad

    Have kuyt be all industry, up and down the side, Suarez plays high up and pins back the opposing FB, Carroll can take two CBs easy, and you stagger play to better protect Johnson as he moves forward. Allow Suarez to get 1 on 1's with the fullback, or behind him, and you're going to be making good goal-scoring opprotunities. Formation is also good because it keeps Gerrard further up the pitch where his positioning won't be as serious as a problem.
     
  12. idreamofpikas

    idreamofpikas Member+

    May 22, 2009
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Bit hard to play that formation without a natural left back. With Kelly, Gerrard and Kuyt all drifting to the right there'd be little balance. It would also be asking too much of Lucas to cover for Gerrard and Miereles while at the same time covering for the fullbacks.
     
  13. foosball

    foosball New Member

    May 1, 2003
    Swap SG and Dirk then you have more cover on the right behind Stevie-rely on Kuyt's workrate. Also could play SG as the point of the middle three with RM and Lucas playing deeper and shifted slightly right allowing space for Gleninho to press up the left. trying to consider how to get our best XI on the field in the most adventageous positions.
     
  14. idreamofpikas

    idreamofpikas Member+

    May 22, 2009
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Although he's nowhere near one of our best 11 players I think Poulsen is going to continue to be a fixture unless Kenny starts to play Carra at LB.
    With Poulsen as DM and Lucas and Raul in the middle then Gerrard and then the front 2. Going from either 4-3-3 or a 4-1-2-1-2.

    A new LB and DM will probably be our top priorities this summer unless Johnson starts to excel on the left.
     
  15. canadianscraggledog

    canadianscraggledog New Member

    Jun 26, 2005
    London, Canada
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Poland
    I think GJ looks better on the left ATM is the better balance of the backline with Agger alongside him for protection and Kelly helping Skrtel out.

    Kelly Skrtel Agger GJ seems well balanced though I think we could try out

    GJ Kelly Agger Aurelio ,

    might as well use the Brazilian for big games if he's fit. He's just as likely to injure in training so why not have him start when available.

    Agree, a LW , LB and DM/CM would be our first priority this summer.
     
  16. Twenty26Six

    Twenty26Six Feeling Sheepish...

    Jan 2, 2004
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Things we know...

    * Kelly (RB) and Johnson (LB) will continue to be the fullbacks for the immediate future and rightfully so.

    * Agger will probably start no matter what, and Carra has a good chance of displacing Skrtel.

    * Meireles and Gerrard will start with Meireles in the more advanced position. Kenny has already shown he likes Raul's passing intelligence closer to the forwards and Stevie's power roaming box-to-box.

    * Lucas and Poulsen are the only "true" holding players we have, although Kenny has moved away from "specialists" in midfield.

    * Carroll and Suarez need to operate closer to the opposition goal to be effective. They're both not quite fast or particularly rangy with their passes.


    Look for this....
    Reina
    Kelly Carragher Agger Johnson
    Lucas Gerrard
    Kuyt Meireles Suarez
    Kuyt Carroll Suarez​


    Or, something like this...
    Reina
    Kelly Carragher Agger Johnson
    Kuyt Lucas Meireles Gerrard
    Suarez
    Carroll Suarez
     
  17. idreamofpikas

    idreamofpikas Member+

    May 22, 2009
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    The problem with that will be keeping Gerrard on the left. The reason why Riera and Maxi have looked decent compared to Benny and Babel despite contributing about the same is that they've kept the teams shape and made us look balanced. Gerrard could maybe do it on the right, but on the left I think he'll drift in to much looking for the ball.
     
  18. Cody667

    Cody667 Member+

    May 10, 2010
    Sudbury, ON
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    How about a 4-3-1-2

    Reina
    Kelly Carragher Agger Johnson
    Kuyt Meireles Lucas
    Gerrard
    Suarez Carroll​
     
  19. Twenty26Six

    Twenty26Six Feeling Sheepish...

    Jan 2, 2004
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Tactical Reason
    My utterly pretentious attempt at guessing why we wanted to acquire Charlie Adam when we already had 4 CMs. ;)


    I'm making this assumption based on 3 games: Manchester United Away (FA Cup), Blackpool Away (EPL), and Fulham Home (EPL). In these three games, Kenny played...


    4-1-4-1 v. United. The central midfield had Lucas sitting very deep with Meireles and Gerrard taking turns to push on and support Torres. RM/SG both seemed to have the freedom to go forward or back depending on how they read the game.


    4-1-4-1 v. Blackpool. It was the same initial set-up but something was clearly different with the CMs. In this game, Poulsen did not exclusively sit back and hold as Lucas did v. Utd. Gerrard and Meireles did not stay to a specific side of the field. And, more importantly, they did not hold a "V" (or inverted triangle) shape very much. In fact, there were a few occasions when Poulsen was in front of both RM and SG. Overall, it was a much more fluid "3" in the CM - which was a departure from rigid 4231 of Rafa and 4222 of Roy.

    ... Of course, this had some negative consequences. As the game wore on we gave up large spaces in the midfield to Blackpool and allowed them to keep possession for extended periods. All 3 CMs (SG, RM, and CP) looked fatigued as the game wore on and our shape became less "fluid" and ended up being more "disorganized".

    ... In contrast, B'pool played with fluid CMs that passed and moved felt comfortable in all areas of midfield. Sure, B'pool's defending sucked, too. But, you would expect that from lesser athletes trying to play an expansive attacking style.


    ***For both Everton and Wolves, we played without Gerrard and used a "psuedo" 4231 with Meireles being the midfielder with the most responsbility going forward to help Torres. I believe this had more to do with personel groupings than tactics. Anytime you play 2 of Poulsen, Spearing, and Lucas in the same game, you're bound to see some defensive/deep midfields. There were subtle hints of tactical changes, but I don't want to get into those here.***


    433 v. Fulham. Bear with me, because this wasn't really a 433. But, for the first time in a loooong time, we played without two things...

    ... (1) There was not a designated defensive midfielder. Sure Poulsen played, but he did not sit back and shadow an attacker or stay behind RM/SG at all costs. Continuing with his play in the B'pool game, Poulsen found himself ahead of SG/RM on more than a few occasions. I bet it would have been mor than a few if he was actually a better player going forward (like Charlie Adam would be).

    ... (2) The "side midfielders" / "wingers" / "wide forwards" were not tactically connected to any of the 3 CMs. Maxi and Kuyt had always been 2 AMs in front of 2 CMs for Hodgson, or they had been connected to a single AM/SS in Gerrard for Rafa.

    ... The result of these two things in the Fulham were a very fluid and interchanging CM set of 3 with no clear DM. Meireles did get forward more than the others, but I feel that was more down to Poulsen's inability to attack, Gerrard's tactical "slowness" in reading the game, and the fact that Meireles had been playing that role for 3-4 games in a row. Raul was experiences in his role when the others were not.

    ... Once again, late in the game, we became tired and no clear "defensive" shape materialized in the midfield as we scampered and scrambled about. That will happen without a clear DM player who knows his role.


    Conclusion. Based on all this, I feel that if we had bought Adam, he would have displaced Lucas/Poulsen and played with SG and RM in midfield. We would have played with a set of 3 CMs and they all would have interchanged roles in the midfield. It would have made us very fluid, and bit defensively suspect until they got used to their roles. Basically, when it's a fluid group, the players have to learn _all_ the roles instead of just 1 of them. It taked more time to learn, but it could potentially be better as it is harder to shut down with simple defensive tactics from the opponents.



    Alright. That's that. Snow days are certainly boring. :)
     
  20. Twenty26Six

    Twenty26Six Feeling Sheepish...

    Jan 2, 2004
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree. This is why I don't want to see a rigid 442 with our new "strike partnership". But, I don't think that will happen anyway.

    See my last post about the unbalanced 433 shape we've been playing.
     
  21. Twenty26Six

    Twenty26Six Feeling Sheepish...

    Jan 2, 2004
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Kuyt, Meireles, Lucas would not operate in a single line across the pitch.

    * Kuyt is never that defensive to start. He only tracks back well.
    * Meireles has not been a DM for us at any point this season, and if anything, he's always been ahead of Gerrard for Kenny.
    * Lucas can't play on the left. We've seen it before, and he sucked.

    Best bet with 3 CMs would be... Meireles Lucas Gerrard, but then there would be no "in the hole" player behind 2 CFs.
     
  22. Cody667

    Cody667 Member+

    May 10, 2010
    Sudbury, ON
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    They would be normal midfielders, not DM's. And I mean Suarez is a capable CF too then we could bump Gerrard back to Kuyt's spot then either go with Kuyt or N'Gog as Carroll's front line partner.
     
  23. Twenty26Six

    Twenty26Six Feeling Sheepish...

    Jan 2, 2004
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You could play Gerrard and Meireles on either side of Lucas, but you'd need someone who can somewhat defend as a AM/SS. Suarez isn't quite like that. Kuyt could do that, but he has failed miserably as a playmaker for Rafa before.

    If we played a 3-5-2, it might make more sense...

    Reina
    Skrt Carra Agger
    Johnson Lucas Gerrard Aurelio
    Meireles
    Suarez Ngog​

    Look for the above, today.
     
  24. Kawklee

    Kawklee BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 30, 2008
    Miami
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States


    I like what you did with my idea
     
  25. ForeverRed

    ForeverRed Member+

    Aug 18, 2005
    NYC
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany

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