Word. I actually don't think it even has that. "We're getting younger, faster, more athletic" has become a bit of a mantra with Revs fans, but I don't see a lot of elite athletes on this team. What I mostly see is a lot of pluggers. The disconnect seems to be that many of us think the team is/should be rebuilding while the Revs seem to think they're reloading with the proverbial "guys who know how to play the game the right way."
I don't disagree, but if that's the argument, and for instance, you are going to count Ralston over Nyassi, then a guy like Perovic should certainly be included in the conversation. That didn't seem to be MM66's original definition of speed. If he is qualifying Nyassi and Alston as speed and saying "Shalrie may be the third fastest player in the starting XI", then to me he's basing it on sprinting ability. In which case, I don't think anyone from 2005 comes close to their "speed". If the argument is the team needs more Ralstons who think quickly and help the team keep possession and keep moving, I'm in agreement. If it's they need more Nyassis, I can't say I am. The 2005 attack wasn't going to beat many defenses for "speed" like Nyassi can, but they didn't need to. If you can keep possession you draw out defense and find holes, which you can then exploit if you have the right players with good vision/passing ability. I made a similar argument a week before the draft, I'm just not sure speed is the right word: http://nesoccertoday.com/?p=2185
Agreed - it's speed of thought rather than track meet speed that is the critical differentiator in MLS. That intangible creativity is what's valuable in my view. We had it in 2005, we've lacked it largely since Dempsey left and definitely since the '07 Cup Final.
For the record, this team doesn't have sprinting speed or game pace. But 2011 Shalrie isn't as fast as 2005 Shalrie and he qualifies as one of the speedier players on this roster. Two fast players in starting XI does not make for a fast team, especially when Tierney and Phelan more than offset that speed with their lack of pace. The current Revs have too many slow players in the lineup and, as a result, they profile as a very slow team. The 2005 Revs may not have had a collection of Carl Lewises, but it steered clear of Deputy Dawg types. As a whole, that team had pace. The speed of play point goes above and beyond the raw speed (and I've argued it myself in the past year on this very board). The 2005 team clearly played the game at a higher tempo. Yet, and this is the tragic part IMO, the 2011 team can't even make a case that it has raw speed or athleticism. It's a mixture of sub-par athletes and sub-par skills. Seriously, I'm amazed at the number of slow players the Revs might be starting in 2011.
I disagree about Perovic. I don't think he is decisive enough on the ball. I think it is the biggest weakness of his possession game. He has the ability to settle quickly and get himself in and out of tight spaces quickly, but his decisions are often very slow, and a play has passed him by. Also, I don't think Ralston was a fast player. Ralston was quick in decision making, and made decisive runs and excellently placed balls, but he was still slow on the field. Which is ok, when you are surrounded by people whom defenders need to honor for their pace. I think you are thinking in the extremes of physical speed, and skill. I'm talking about players who have pace, like Dempsey, but also play faster than guys who are just fleet of , like Nyassi. Nyassi is still a fast player, and I like what he does for this team. His flat out speed is somewhat slowed in the game by his slow decisions, or less than stellar technical skills. He is still among the fastest players on the team, however. It's about the balance between physical speed and all of the other things that make players faster within the game. It isn't one or the other
It's a combination of both. If it were all intangibles and creativity, then Thierry Henry would be a better player in 2011 than he was in 2004.
I don't think Shalrie is even close to being one of the speedier players on the roster. The whole back line and Nyassi are faster then him, which puts him in the lower half of the team. Many of the guys who will likely get minutes off the bench are faster then him as well. He'll beat Phelan, Tierney and the eastern Europeans in a foot race, but that's about it. I also think you are vastly overestimating the speed of the 2005 team. Franchino, Cancela, Noonan, Twellman? These were not fast players. The first three would be vying with Stoljica as the slowest on this years team. Parkhurst had decent pace, as did a younger Ralston and Heaps, but none of them were close to as fast as Nyassi or Alston. The Revs problem isn't pace, or athleticism. It's that they're not good enough, and the changes so far have been at the fringes. They need two more upgrades if they want to be in the upper half of MLS.
Phelan, Tierney and the Eastern Europeans are 40% of the starting team. I'll take Shalrie over Cochrane too. That makes Shalrie one of the speedier players on the starting team right there. We'll see if Domi has better wheels than Shalrie (I recall Domi not being particularly quick when he played at Espanyol five years ago). So please feel free to stage a foot race between Shalrie and Barnes. I don't really care which one is faster. It's a sign of a pathetically slow team that we'd even have to ask that question. There should be at least a half-dozen faster players in the regular lineup You can pretend Alston and Nyassi somehow constitute overall team speed, but they don't. The truth is this is an unskilled and slow team. The Revs' problem is they've got a lot of problems. Slow is one of them.
They need a striker and a central midfielder. Everywhere else, they are good by MLS standards. As far as Noonan, Cancela and Twellman not being fast: Please read my previous posts. All three of those guys played the game much quicker than almost everyone on this revs team. Perceptive speed in the game is more important than foot speed. That is what we are talking about here.
I would agree with that. Unless they are hoofing the ball up the flank 40 yards and trying to run onto a hopeless ball, this team plays with absolutely no pace. Runs off the ball take too long to develop. Touches are so poor that plays breakdown before a ball is settled. No one can run at defenders. There are litany of reasons why this team has trouble breaking teams down and holding possession.
I completely agree, but I was responding to the point that we have not made changes. We've changed dramatically. Clearly the team we have now isn't good enough - at this point. And Nat Borchers was a stiff a few years ago and Drew Moor was nothing special. They got to play, got experience and turned into good players. We shall see about Soares, but I remember people saying the exact same things about Parkhurst - and I think he was even a less likely candidate to fill the job. If the Revs leave the job open to Soares, he'll do the job - that's my prediction. The only thing Baba was fast at was retreating in the face of any token pressure. This team is much faster than the teams we had 4 or 5 years ago. It's really no contest. Yes, exactly right. I just cited this as ONE area we've improved in - because lack of speed *was* an issue. It's getting harder every time MLS expands - so they are moving in that direction. But, just because I say it is "an" accomplishment, you seem to take is though I am saying it is the "highest" accomplishment. And, it's not so easy. Plenty of coaches in MLS get fired every year for not being able to do such a simple thing. No one mentioned "success". I said it was an accomplishment. And, I really doubt anyone from the Revs goes home thinking that they did a fine job for the season when they exit out of the playoffs. Perhaps your expert in human behavior can comment on how likely it is that a coach who's lost 4 finals feels satisfied with making the playoffs. I think Barnes, Tierney, Phelan, Nyassi and Shuttleworth have clearly progressed - not that they don't still have a significant ways to go. I think Alston's improved too, but that perception is lost because 1) our expectations for him grew pretty quickly, 2) as he got more confident, he's tried to do more, and 3) if you're in and out of the lineup with injuries as much as he was, it's hard to keep game conditioning and touch at their peak level. Alston came out school as someone we hoped could compete for a starting job. After one season he was someone who was talked about as an all-star and getting USNT callups. Maybe expectations got a little ahead of themselves? Who says I don't like to hear it? I do object to the "taking an easy out" though. I think they are trying, but, yes, when they aren't "succeeding", yes, that probably means they can't do their jobs [well enough]. Yes, but ... I think JPA, or someone of that level, wouldn't have done a whole lot better with the kind of midfield play we had last season. Yes, I agree. It's one area that they have improved on, but what's really needed now is to improve the possession game and the ability to bring the ball into the final third under control.
Ok if you want me to change the words to be more specific to what i meant: We have not made dramatic POSITIVE changes. You're right, and I don't have a problem with playing a few young players a season. I am a big advocate for that very practice. However, oung players should be subsidizing an already strong core. Unfortunately, the core of this team is not very strong, so young players will get exposed more easily. That is fine if you want to have faith in a rookie you really haven't seen. I'm just saying that the percentages of it actually happening are really low. Just look at the player drafted right before Parkhurst, Troy Roberts, he has been out of the league for years. The draft is a total crapshoot.
It was getting harder and I liked that. Then they started expanding the number of teams that make the playoffs. But that is the point. Some owners/front offices view it as simple enough to do that you should be fired for not accomplishing it. I'm okay with SN being pretty safe with job continuity if they make the playoffs but otherwise it is such a hoo hum achievement that no one should talk about it. But peace. We've rambled on too long about it probably. I allow that SN may have very private thoughts that we would call misgivings. However, the organization seems to rally around "making the playoffs" is a success. Perhaps yes. Do you notice a particular tilt to the guys you listed as progressing? See anything in common? I do. They are mostly defensive players. Maybe Nyassi isn't but I'd bet the progress you've seen is mostly in his defensive game. This is not a failure but the REVs really seem to lack an ability to develop new offensive talent. This has gone on for about 5 years. By merely getting onto the field (health) he would have produced infinitely more than Jankasaurus. Amen
Keep telling yourself that if it's what gets you through the night. Meanwhile Tierney, Stolica, Phelan, Perovic and Cochrane will be taking the field and moving like they're in molasses.
Two of them will be taking the field opening day (Stolica and Perovic). The other three are maybes, depending on whether Revs sign a new CM, AM and whether Soares can win a spot in training camp. Doesn't necessarily resolve the great speed debate, but three of your molasses guys may be bench players.
Word is out two more signings coming this week. Sure hope it's not resigning players already on the roster (I doubt it is). Revs have said they need to retool. Window is closing in Europe (not for MLS). Camp to start in a week. Yup, time for two more SI signings. Fingers cross. Prayer wheel spinning
I pray that they are under 32 with no history of injuries, have decent pace and attacking mentality and bigger than 5'9. A good pedigree and not looking to retire in MLS
They don't usually lie. Their style is more to say nothing. The fact that they have been repeated quoted as saying they know they need to retool and they fully intend to make two or three major signings is very much out of character for the usually tight lipped Rev Central. Like everything in life---show us results--- but I'm reasonably confident they are being truthful about what they are doing and that they expect to announce to signings shortly. Color me cautiously excited that the Revs Revs may be bringing in two players of note.
Well, we will see if they were serious, or if their rhetoric was just to pander to an apathetic fan-base. I'm hoping for the former, but I'm not holding my breath.
Do you really trust the judgment of talent decision makers who consider Joseph Niouky a box to box midfielder? I'm a bit skeptical.
I totally agree. And, as a result, we tend to underrate them because they don't have the support of veterans in the lineup. I've made the point that the level and rate of improvement of Phelan vs. Larentowicz isn't that different. The biggest difference is that JL was put in the middle of a lineup that was getting to the MLS Cup every year - and Phelan's spent a season in a young and inexperienced midfield (except for SJ for 2/3's of the season), in front of a young and inexperienced defense. You put Phelan or Tierney, for instance, in a lineup full of veteran players and I think they'd do fine. The MLS playoffs have always had 8 teams. That's one of the few things that's never changed. I don't believe they've ever said that. I think they consider it an accomplishment, which I think is perfectly fair. Ah, I think you're being a little hypocritical here. If making the playoffs isn't "an accomplishment" (or a significant one), then "just getting on the field" is no better than not - they both produce nothing.
Except that it is changing, so making the playoffs this year will be easier than it was last year (and we failed then).
While you do make a very good point about supporting casts, I disagree strongly on Phelan. Tierny may be a useful player in a better lineup, but I think Phelan is rubbish. Just looking at the two players on the field, JL is faster, quicker and has much better touch than Phelan. JL is also very rarely caught out of position, which is something I really can't stand out of Phelan's game. He drifts to far from side to side, invading teammates space, and will also sit so deep sometimes that he has no other option but to play a 30 yard ball. I can't really ever remember watching Phelan and thinking to myself, "what a good idea" or "boy he really calmed things down." I think Phelan would actually be exposed more if surrounded by better players. The game around him would speed up, and he would be stuck, limited by his poor skills, in the proverbial mud. I'd rather not ever see him on the field.
Well, there are more playoff spots (10), but the number of teams we have to beat (be better than) to make the playoffs is the same (8).