NSR: College Football

Berkeley went 1-12 under Holmoe in about 2000. Since Tedford has been there they have been much better - and Berkeley can't exactly take it easy on admission standards.

 

Now NPA - you know that your knowledge of menial NBA players and Chlenski's depth chart never ceases to amaze me - so it is with a heavy heart that I will have to disagree with you.

a. Again Tennessee, Michigan, Texas, FSU, 'Bama, Penn State fans are way beyond ND in nuttiness, devotion, and rabidness department - unfortunately I had to witness most of it firsthand.
b. So - ND had a dufus coach - has not everyone?
c. At any time when a team with a tremendous following and winning history is at the top - see Lakers, Barca, ManU, Spartak - the revenue stream and awareness of the sport increases - elementary sport marketing notion. Notre Dame guarantees 20-40,000 fans anywhere they play - that is millions in tix, merchandise, concessions, parking, ad revenue, travel expenses, etc,etc, etc, sport awareness notwithstanding. They play home games in San Antonio, Joizey, and Bonx, and sell out - would Tulsa do that?
Is there a reason Barca sells out Rose Bowl exhibition games, and Almeria stays in Spain?
d. Where do you get you college facts, due to the nature of my vocation - I had to take classes at, at least 25-30 campuses, and currently still visit tens of schools annually & my kid is ready to graduate high school in not so distant future. Now - I will be a snob, and say that ND might not be good enough for her - but my experience there has been nuttn' short of sensational; and much better than at 90-96% of any other school I've seen. UCB and UCLA are vastly underrated, and are both still in top 20 consistently. I spend a LOT of time at UCLA for a multitude of reasons - it's a terrific school for variety of reasons - yet I would not want my Daughter to go there, or UCB for that matter.
Stanford is as good as any school in US - IMHO; I'll give you Duke - altho' I'm somewhat torn on it.
You gotta quote sources - if you do-do the numbers.

 

Now that I did not know - dat be foukkkup in mein book.

 

They're still not nearly as astringent as Stanford's - as I understand.

 

a. I'm not arguing nuttiness or devotion. I can excuse those. I'm arguing the smug "we're Notre Dame and have Touchdown Jesus" shit that I have never encountered from any other school.
b. He epitomized so much of what I hated about ND - he was a phenomenal fit in the same way that Tressel is a great fit for OSU.
c. That's silly. So many college games sell out, you don't need Notre Dame at all. Because there are only 5-7 home games a season, any big school will be a draw. Whether its ND, USC, Alabama, etc. Again, this isn't European football where you say "I don't know who Villareal is" - every school has an alumni base, many that are bigger than Notre Dame's. If Notre Dame sucks, that likely means another big school is doing well, and fans will follow it. I support Ohio State but I don't think that college football is better when OSU is winning Big Ten titles. Someone else will be a top team and that'll take care of it. No, Tulsa is not the same, but that's a terrible example - Tulsa isn't ranked. There are so many top schools, Notre Dame doesn't need to be among them - just like OSU and Michigan don't.
Comparing home games in college football to exhibitions by Almeria in LA is such a nonsense comparison I'm a bit shocked you even made it.
d. If you have the money to send your daughter to a top school - good for you. But when you say you had a good experience at ND, what does that mean? Are you suggesting they have the same quality faculty as, say, UCB? Of course note. The same quality of the student body? No. I've been working in NYC/London for almost 10 years and have only met one person who even went to Notre Dame - and I've never met anyone who thinks of ND as a top school. 50 years ago, maybe. Now? No. In my opinion, there's not much difference anymore between USC and Notre Dame - and USC isn't claiming to be the Harvard of the midwest.

You're right, it doesn't shrink body tissue. But Berkeley's admission standards are surprisingly high for being a public institution. Where it usually falls down is $/student and class size - things like that (which I personally think barely matter).

 

a.
You've met some odd ND people - sorry - I've been to tons of games, etc - they are a lot of fun, never violent like Penn State or Georgia can get - and I've never met someone with "TD Jayzus' complex. They take amazing care of their former alumni, 'specially athletes.
Honestly your comments on this point are ambiguous - I just give up.
b. We agree on dat - let's just drop it.
c.
You did not get my point - firstly - I said that Barca sold out Rose Bowl - not a college football team.
The point is that there are powerful franchises, brands if you will, and when they prosper or make headlines - it effects a lot more of that market's constituents. Like if Rooney fux a hooker - it's a headline, and if Vasya Podlyanskiy fux a hooker it's herpes.
BTW - that whole college football - every game sold out chit - is a myth - tix for USC - Oregon yesterday were going below face; I have season seats for ND, Texas and UCLA - half of Texas or UCLA seats are tough even to give away. ND is a draw anywhere they go - there may be 4-5 schools like that in entire college football, period.
d.
I will keep Berkeley and UCLA out of this conversation for variety of reasons - they are an anomaly and great schools. I have had many conversations with members of their faculty - and am extremely impressed - there are way too many reasons to mention here why they are superb schools. For example Michael Chabon lectures at Berkeley 'cause lives nearby and enjoys it. AN argument that in 10 years in New York + London you've met 1 ND grad is too anecdotal to deal with, I met only 1 Dartmouth graduate and she was a bitch - does that mean - the school sux? I lived in New York on and off 4 times, and met prolly 20-30 ND grads - that does not a great school make.
Yes, IMHO when I went there the quality of faculty included a multitude of various prize winners - and majourity of classes I took there were as good as any random class I took at Princeton, Harvard, or Duke; I also found the quality of facilities, medical help, travel expenditures absolutely top notch - kids on other teams could not believe the overall level of attention we received - and that included Harvard, North Carolina, Ole Miss - pretty much any random sample .
I am also a bit old fashioned and still look at the rankings - it's 19th overall undergraduate, 31st in business postgraduate, 22nd in law - not as good as when I went there - but by far IMHO top Catholic school - not that I am one.
Anyway - your answers have a bit of bitterness in them - goodforyouisms, etc.
There are about 20 ways to skin the proverbial "admission fee cat" and paying in American $ is only one of them - I'll deal with my Kid's tuition - but currently it might be much harder to get into the "blue chip" school, as opposed to paying for it.
Now we've strayed way off college Footie topic - so I'm done.

 

They're are definitly more than 5 schools that can sell out any stadium. Notre Dame is only relevant because the media keeps them alive. They're awful on the field and kids growing up dont think ND is some dynasty/great football school they only hear about it from old white men on espn. College football is worse when ND is good because all their gloryhunting fans come out of the woodwork and tell everybody how theor different and special. Also most ND fans ive met always brag about TD Jesus and think their gods gift to college football when their team hasnt been relevant since the 80's.

 

Dunno what fans you Gents been chillin' mit - NPA tells that in last 10 years he has not met a single ND grad, yet he met a ton of obnoxious ND fans. Mayhaps it is Subway Alumni - but I usually get Monogram Club seats - yet at the tailgaters everyone is chillin' and havin' a great time, unlike a lot of other lunatix. I had a neighbour that just hated Notre Dame - yet she could never rationally explain her feelings, this is like "deja vu all over again". I will tell you - what Notre Dame has done for me defies any logic or rationale; I got into a lot of trouble when I went to school, had a tons of itchues - yet got pulled outta chit, dusted off, listened to, understood, given direction and help - and I am not Catholic.

If I use your analogy then Maple Leafs are not relevant to the NHL, and Cubs are not relevant to MLB, since they have not won in forever.
I'll try to keep it civil and mention 5 schools of top of my mind besides Notre Dame that would sell out their home and away stadium automatically - call me crazy, but I pay attention to dis chit - since traveling a lot I try to attend some of them - and I could have had tons of SC-Oregon tix yesterday for under $70.
Ohio State
Michigan
Florida

may be
Alabama and Penn State.

The rest is baloney to trump up tix demand.

 

Only Ohio St would be jumped in the polls after beating someone 49-0 and the next week 52-10. Typical southern rednecks.

 

I wish people used words more carefully on message boards. When did I post that? You assume that I don't like ND because of experiences with some rowdy fans or something - not true.

 

a. How are they ambiguous? And I've never claimed they're violent, I've claimed that they're insanely annoying.
b. Not sure you mean that, but OK
c. Torp, I've had trouble giving away OSU tickets in the past to home games. It happens to every school with a large enough stadium. I also disagree about only 5 schools guaranteeing a sell-out - that hasn't been true of Notre Dame in quite some time. (I could get Notre Dame tickets for below value for an OSU game 10 years ago!.)
However, my point stands - be ranked higly enough and games will sell out. I'm also not sure that USC is a good example - neither they nor Miami generate particularly loyal fanbases - too much to do to concentrate so much on sports.
By the way, you're crazy if you think Penn State away is an automatic sell out these days!
d. First, that you can pay for your daughter's college is a great thing. If my parents had been able to do that I never would have gone to OSU and likely would have been happier for it. People for some reason think that my post was somehow an insult - its not, at all. If your daughter can go where she wants, that's fantastic. Its one of the biggest reasons to make money in the first place.
Second - why are we excluding Berkeley and UCLA? Because they're anomalies? But Notre Dame's whole point is that they're an academic anomaly in a world of FSUs. So yes, UCLA and Berkeley are very relevant and they're better schools. Michigan is too (especially for grad schools).
Third - I'm sure taking a class at Notre Dame is a fine experience and they're very good with funds. But, to me, that's not what sets the quality of the school apart. Harvard Law has had, historically, crappy facilities. And people moan about it. But its still Harvard.
Fourth - I'm not suggesting rankings are irrelevant. But when Notre Dame is ranked ahead of Berkeley (more kids with 4.0s apply every year to Berkeley than there are spots in the entire class), I look at the rankings in more depth. And where nearly every single public school loses ranking spots is in relation to $$$$. Bigger class sizes, worse facilities, etc. But that to me is the least important aspect of an educational institution.
Fifth - being 22nd in Law is not very impressive when you consider that 1-15 is relevant, and everything afterwards is an afterthought other than locally. Notre Dame isn't a national law school. I can't think of a single NYC firm that recruits there.
To bring this back to the beginning - Notre Dame is not nearly as good academically as many of its fans seem to think.
e. I have no bitterness towards Notre Dame once so ever - I never applied, have never been punched/broken up with by a graduate.

Finally - when I said I had only met one ND grad, I meant professionally - in case that wasn't clear.

 

a. Perhaps - I'll agree to disagree - whenever I go to a game - it's with relatives, friends, etc; I get 1 ND home field pass, and 1 game to form a tunnel on the field - so usually it's all good for free food and beer at the tailgate if I did not bring my own. BTW - I find OSU fans highly civilized as well. So let finish that one.

b. Yes Charlie Weis was a dufus on many levels - I'm done with that.

c. ND still travels better than anyone - just ask any chit bowl dat will clamor to get them after 6-6 season.

d. Your post is highly lucid - no itchues on my part - just an amount of kindness by faculty, staff, and students of ND - truly amazed me - it is really a very special place. I actually have considered moving to South Bend and just chilling there - not that it will happen.

 

Not sure what you mean by "any of the other schools ranked 22". Do you mean in the US News ranking?

Just keep in mind - that first class is coming out of your debt

New York only has 3 law schools of any relevance (4 if you really, really want to count Cardozo), which, considering it is the largest legal market in the world, is not "tons" at all.
USC is not a national name, no, but Vanderbilt certainly is - far more so than ND.

 

a. I wouldn't claim OSU's fans are especially civilized (a few of my friends from other schools have had problems) so I wouldn't be surprised if ND's fans are. But that's not why I don't like them.
b. I agree with you there.
c. The same thing would happen to OSU or Michigan. ND travels well but not uniquely well. When ND and OSU played in the Fiesta Bowl about 4 years ago it was a pretty even split of fans.
d. I've never argued that ND isn't a special place or a isn't a place with good academics. My point is that it is not the academic powerhouse a lot of its fans think it is.

 

I tend to rank everything about #18 at about the same. The truth is, there's almost no difference between 22 and 32. Or even 42 - you're getting into regional schools there. Good schools, but regional ones.

I wouldn't count Yale and Cornell as NY schools - they send a lot of grads to different places. Especially Yale, which is mostly a factory for academics. Plus, I'm not sure why Boston isn't as valid of a legal market to Ivies as New York is?
But also remember, NYC has (or used to have) the legal market to absorb all those lawyers.

 

When their winning hey are good but definitely not the best.

 

Right - Alabama-Army would sell out Yankee Stadium

 

Could anyone provide an update on the paralyzed Rutgers player? I last read that if there is no improvement in three days, the diagnosis is grim. it's been more than three days and I have not heard of any improvements. Where is it now?

 

Maybe depends how much the stadium holds. The nd army game will be reported as a sellout but it probably won't be. Also there will be people there with no rooting interests who just want to see football at yankee stadium.

 

LOL, TCU just humiliated Utah...Horned Frogs have a strong case to go to the BCS title game, but at who's expense?

 

On the other end of the FBS spectrum, FAU (3-5, 2-3) just outlasted WKU (1-8, 1-4) 17-16