ok, so i'm going to play devil's advocate here. Who are the 'Sons of Ben'? And what does it mean to be a 'Son of Ben'? Does it mean different things to different people? It would seem so, and that's not a bad thing. To some.... Is it the Philadelphia Union Supporters Club - which would explain 6000 members. People who want to sing and shout at the game. wave flags, stand for 90 mins and just have a good old time with similar type people? I think this is the main reason that the majority of people become a member. To others.... Is it being part of something that's bigger than themselves - Being part of a club that goes beyond the boundaries of PPl park, wearing the shirt, making friends, feeling like they are contributing through tifo production, tailgate crewing, organizing away trips, and going to see the Independence or reading Utd, or the other affiliated clubs? To others, who have an even deeper involvement, is it a more philanthropic organization? which, according to the charter on the website, appears to be more of the core around which the organization has grown - "The Sons of Ben, founded in January 2007, exists to support and develop the Delaware Valley soccer community. Through active, grassroots support, the Sons of Ben helped establish the momentum leading to the creation of the Philadelphia Union of Major League Soccer (MLS) and the Philadelphia Independence of the Women’s Professional Soccer (WPS) league. " "The Sons of Ben have provided a social outlet for soccer supporters to share common interests and be part of a larger community of sports fans in the 4th largest American media market. The organization has grown to include over 5,000 members throughout Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Delaware, and around the world. " So i can see 3 distinct levels of involvement (i'm not counting the ingrates who just want cheap seats) - Can't it be all of these?
We did discuss this prior to the season but it never took off because we had so many other things we were planning and working on just to get ready for the first season. I think it's a great idea but we would obviously have to work through the logistics, etc. to get a meeting like that scheduled, agendas set, and people to attend. Bottom line it's doable and a great idea. I'm sure you're all know this but our biggest issue this season from an organizational standpoint is our fight against time. We spend hours (literally) each week preparing for the next game. Between meetings, emails, phone calls, face-to-face time, actual work, etc. it's A LOT of work. It's why we solicited volunteers for tailgates, web, etc. I'm not seeking a pat on the back myself or for the Elders but, again, the amount of time that has been spent just to get things where they are today has been enormous and anyone who comes into a leadership position is going to have to be ready to accept that. When we have the full, initial sit down meeting my hope is that we have a constructive conversation and that there are people there who truly want to take on some of the responsibility of running Sons of Ben and making it better.
I don't see why not, but I also don't think that anyone can pick and choose what rules they want to follow which are passed down from the guys at the top. I don't want to hear or see "Oh cool, I can get a discount, sit in the best part of the stadium, and bring in a banner... but they're telling me not to yell YSA? pfft... screw that, I'm yelling it"
"but I also don't think that anyone can pick and choose what rules they want to follow which are passed down from the guys at the top" I was talking about motives for joining - not rules for this group and that group.
Is 137 going to have section reps? ....or would that be same as the Delegate from Guam in the US House of Representatives since most of the Elders / Capo's etc. are in 137?
Jinks, it's true that you were talking about motivations. But in the end, what can we concretely gain from understanding those motivations? I think it is to set up some kind of difference in expectation for what each group wants and is willing to do. So even if we're not to apply any kind of strict rules per se, it will sort of end up looking like that. Basically you're saying that SoB can be something for all of these people. It can be simply to provide the match-day experience. It can be to help work on that match-day experience by working on tifo stuff, the tailgate etc. Or it can be to really guide and lead the ideals and goals of SoB beyond simply the wins and losses. SoB at its heart is trying to grow soccer at all levels, not just professional and senior-level national.
That's exactly what I'm saying. There's nothing wrong with being a member for the match day experience, but the opportunities are there to get involved to a much deeper level.
Ditto , but I think it's fantastic that everyone is participating and I look forward to hearing more from different people. Lurkers. Speak.
You could also just spread the elders out... kind of like scouts bringing back intel from the battlefield...?
Please try not to overlook those of us who don't have season tickets (and thus a regular section) but would like to have a voice. I've sat in every section this year except 134 so I don't have a set section. I missed one match at PPL all year and I'm on the list for next season, but there's no guarantees what section I'll be in or that I'll even get season tickets. I'm sure there are others out there who are in the same boat.
When we get the meeting time and place schedule anyone will be able to attend so come on out. If you're a member of SoB you have a say.
I think most of us are immensely greatful for all of the work the elders have put in. That said, would it be less time binding to delegate some of the responsibility? There is only so much 8-12 guys can do. Wouldn't it be practical if not inevitable to expand leadership for such a large group that requires so much time and responsibility? I proposed an idea earlier, and if something was put into place where each elder would oversee a committee, that would have to instantly cut out a lot of leg work for each elder, right? I imagine it would. I'm just throwing ideas out there.
You're right, it would and to a certain degree it has but there is STILL a lot of work. However, having a committee means managing a committee and that in and of itself takes time and focus. Personally, I have to get out of the "do it myself" mentality but I'm more than willing to give it a go.
Sully, I appreciate your opinion and I know that everyone sharing their opinions are doing so because they support the Union and love the RE. I think some of the differences are just differences of perspective. You think I don't want to do anything the SOB does, but that is not entirely true. The SOB's main job on game day is to support the team. I support the team with passion and volume every single game. I don't wear the SOB colors, because I like to support the team wearing the colors of the team. In 136 maybe 50pct of the fans wear SOB colors. Are they also not "real" SOB's? I don't attend the tailgates, because I like tailgating near the river with my friends, new and old. Half are SOB's the other half are not. There is no pressure to be what someone else wants me to be. From what I understand there are between 100 200 people at any given tailgate, does that mean that the other 1800 people in the RE are not "real" SOB's. Here is an analogy,(at least I think thats what its called.) I love my family tremendously, but I do not always do what they want me to do. Sometimes I make concessions for them, other times I do not. Does this mean I do not want to be part of my family? of course not. It just means I have a different perspective on what being in a family means. Essentially SOB is just a volunteer family. I pay the money for SOB because I appreciate the hard work and dedication that has been put into it and I enjoy some of the benefits. I respect the "elders" (why do I feel like a douche using that term?), but that does not mean I am going to walk around sniffing their colons. I don't think most of them want that either. If they get bitched at for things that other fans do, thats sucks, but it comes with the territory of being a leader. I can't believe that the elders were surprised by it. The one thing that bothers me is what I perceive as discreet elitism. Whether its somebody questioning someones loyalty because they don't sing loud enough, looking down at them because they don't wear the SOB colors, getting upset because they aren't doing sanctioned chants. Sure you may convert some fans by scolding, but for the most part you are just going to push people away. Most people on BigSoccer are diehards, most people who go to the games are not. If every casual fan was taken out of the RE, like some SOB's here have suggested, the RE would be empty and quite. Do you think that is better? I am not 100% sure, but I think the supporters section has only sold out twice all year.
You can't keep a good idea or discussion down. I think this discussion can take place on her. I'd expect that action outside of our online world will be tabled until season's end, but this at least gives us a head start on getting the sense of our organization. Also, I've received a couple of PMs that gave me suggestions if I'm thinking of forming a new group. Let me be clear. I'm not advocating separatism at this point. I want to see the SoB succeed. My original post was written in an effort to find solutions for what I see as a growing problem. Whether that problem is one of perception or reality, it is there and it needs to be addressed. I have found in life that you can't let issues like this fester. You need to allow people to air out concerns, and you need to respectfully address those concerns (at least the concerns that don't come from crazy people). I think the issues can be solved for the most part through an organizational evolution. This is not the same SoB organization that it was in 2007. The leadership model needs to evolve with it. I'm seeing some excellent ideas on here today, and I hope it has provided some relief to those who have been frustrated by things. We'll just need to see some follow through or we'll be likely to see the formation of separate groups in the RE. I'm grateful to the founders who have put so much of their lives into this in the last three years. That is what motivated my post. I don't want to see the organization that they built fracture into seven separate pieces. I wouldn't have spent all that time driving out earlier than necessary for tailgates to volunteer, and I wouldn't have spent countless hours working on tifo if I didn't care about the organization and what it has done. I love the SoB.
I don't think any of us were surprised by any of this. We did the best job we could with managing the situation and expectations of both sides of the house. The thing that has me turned off a bit is some of the venom that's been thrown our way. I get it that it's a different perspective and emotions run high but I'd say 90% of the people in SoB don't know us even though we're out there every day. We have to change that and with some of the things we're talking about in this thread I think that will help. I'm all about having discussions to work things out for the better. And you feeling like a douche for using the term "Elders" is just the natural feeling you have for being a douche anyway so there's no need to dwell on it.
Agreed! I ran into the same problem a few years ago at my job where I was the only one who could do myriad specialized tasks or was on top of the new rules handed down from the government in my industry, so I'd end up working 12 to 15 hours every day. It was killing me, but I was too caught up with the tasks at hand to see that there were people around me who could learn and help. It took some time, but I finally figured out that the more people I can show how to do what I do, the less I have to do and I can move on to bigger and better things. The gist of all this is that the same applies here. The more admin tasks that the elders can show to people who want to be more involved, the less you'll have to do down the road. (On a side note, the parallels to this thread and the Notice & Proxy I'm working on are getting scary. I hope I don't accidentally change the language of a question to shareholders to "Should SoB Elders be elected to 5 year terms starting in 2011?"...)