Splitters: Let's Talk Solutions

Discussion in 'Sons of Ben' started by 3Maldini, Oct 12, 2010.

  1. crosswiredmind

    crosswiredmind BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 15, 2010
    Philly Burbs
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    +1

    Let's get to the end of the season.
     
  2. bigjinks

    bigjinks Member

    Jan 15, 2010
    Liverpool/Havertown
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Nail. Head. Hit.
     
  3. thechairman

    thechairman New Member

    Feb 14, 2008
    Bryn Mawr, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree with 3Maldini's statements. He has perhaps more eloquently stated what I have been thinking for a while. I have vacillated between thinking that a split will occur versus hoping that we would develop different "flavors" or "divisions" much like an army. An army has different divisions branches and oftentimes they have strong rivalries between divisions and even branches like Armor, Infantry, and Artillery. But they all fight for the same goal and in they are united for that purpose. We can channel competition in healthy ways, like tifo contests, or fundraisers. Or maybe each section takes a turn running the tailgate. Who knows. I imagine it maybe like a motorcycle club with different charters. You're loyal to your own charter first but underneath the mother club we're all brothers/sisters.
    One thing I would suggest that would be very helpful is to have these section leader meetings sometime. Make them open to anyone who wants to attend, and from all sections. I for one would like to put more faces to names and names to faces. I see the people on here and I see the people in the RE and the TG but I don't know many by both face and BS name. So this would be a good time to get to meet everyone. If we all saw each other in person, perhaps we would understand each other more and our discussions would be more productive. It is much easier to shout at someone whom you've never met before and will have little chance to meet in person.
     
  4. bigjinks

    bigjinks Member

    Jan 15, 2010
    Liverpool/Havertown
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I like the analogy. DOOP ARMY 136-L1 Reporting for duty, Sir!
     
  5. thechairman

    thechairman New Member

    Feb 14, 2008
    Bryn Mawr, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's hard to use other MLS clubs as an example simply because some of them have been around for 10-15 years and the various groups have had a lot of time to change, evolve, and maybe dissolve. Leadership has probably changed several times. I know that Chicago used to have the Barnburners, but are now defunct.
     
  6. mansbro

    mansbro Member

    Apr 25, 2007
    Hatboro, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm all for having a face to face meeting to talk through everything and get a bet organization setup that helps us going into 2011. Personally, I think we grew too fast and we just weren't fully prepared for it. Let's get the ball rolling and start nailing all of this down. 2011 is going to be here before we know it.
     
  7. buzzkiller23

    buzzkiller23 Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    Glenolden, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here are the elders as listed on the SoB web page for all to see.
    http://beta.sonsofben.com/about/elders/

    President – Bryan James
    Vice President – Mike Naioti
    Treasurer – Tom Roletter
    Secretary – Mark Dunfee
    Marketing – Brad Youtz
    Philanthropy – Sandra Drain
    Game Day – Corey Furlan
    Technology – Matt Ansbro

    Committee Members
    Brent Dodulik
    Seth Gillman
    Bill Magee

    Elder Emeritus & Co-Founder – Andrew Dillon
    Elder Emeritus & Co-Founder – Dave Flagler
    Elder Emeritus – Bob Lindenmuth
    Elder Emeritus – Ethan Gomberg

    From my experiences these individuals are all pretty accessable, especially if you attend SoB tailgates or other non gameday events. On the other hand, I can also understand how some people find the elders to be a "clique" who secretly meet and run everything in the RE with no input from the membership.
    I think the easiest way to have a say in the goings on within SoB is simply to volunteer. I can see how it would be difficult to volunteer for a group in which you currently have no vote or say in decision making. You may not even know any of the elders personally. There's no simple solution here. I do think that if some of these aspects of leadership expanded themselves by forming their own committees and expanding the "leadership" there would be a trickle down effect of making "leadership/eldership" more accessible. (i.e. treasury committee, marketing committee, philanthropy committee, gameday committee, tech commitee)
    Say each of these committees had 10 people. Suddenly your leadership group is 70+ people which makes a lot more sense with a group of over 2,000+ paid members. I'm sure committee members would come from different circles and different sections throughout the stadium and thus represent the group better in its entirety. Let's say a big decision needs to be made. Each committee could vote individually and each elder could represent their committee.

    Just a thought. Not sure how feasable something like this would be.
     
  8. UnionZ010

    UnionZ010 New Member

    Mar 26, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    yup
     
  9. local136RiverRat

    Oct 9, 2010
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    It is not about cheap seats. I am just not a puppet to be micromanaged at the whims of a select few. I am loud, I am passionate, I attend every game. I will compromise, but will not censor myself completely.

    Thank you for telling me that I am not an SOB because of telling my truth. I am not sure what qualifies you to be giving the loyalty tests. The problem is that you are probably going to have to tell a lot more people that they aren't really SOB's. Seems that you are under the delusion that most people in the RE are as "diehard" SOB as you. This is simply untrue and infact your type of attitude is one of the main things driving people away.The main thing I am diehard for is in my loud and passionate support of the Philly Union, which IMO is the most important of all the reasons to be in the RE.
     
  10. thechairman

    thechairman New Member

    Feb 14, 2008
    Bryn Mawr, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
  11. mansbro

    mansbro Member

    Apr 25, 2007
    Hatboro, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Updated
     
  12. Z010 Union

    Z010 Union Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 28, 2002
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    you should add Sandy to Elder Emeritus
     
  13. thechairman

    thechairman New Member

    Feb 14, 2008
    Bryn Mawr, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This little discussion here is exactly why I have felt there will be a split. Not that I want one, but it will happen. And it is because there are people like RiverRat who are undoubtedly loud and proud Union supporters but just don't fancy the notion of being in SoB, much less any group. Unfortunately the spanner in the works is that to be in the RE, you need to be a member of a supporters group. And not just Sons of Ben, because the signs outside the sections just say supporters group. But like Bryan said, I think he's more than willing to listen and help out any sections or groups who want to do their own thing. I don't think supporting the Union should be a one-size-fits-all proposition. Maybe we'll continue to grow, maybe we'll actually get smaller. But we should try to end up with a membership that has people in it who really want to be there. There shouldn't a "loyalty" test. No one should be made to feel like they have to be in Sons of Ben. Everyone in their own hearts should know that answer.
     
  14. CrazyUnionBox

    CrazyUnionBox Member

    Mar 14, 2007
    137 Seat 1
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What is the thought of having a quarterly general membership meeting where any and all SOB members can come to discuss issues. In the same breath it would be treated like a true organizational meeting with one person speaking and others listening. Make motions to approve certain items. Maybe expand the SOB Elders and committee members to add a few more.
    I feel bitching about things only takes you so far. If you want something changed step up, help out and become involved and you can voice your opinions.
    This is a supporters group but it is also an organization with 3,000 paying members and 3,000 individual voices. No one is going to have the same opinion and no one is going to have the same vision of what the supporters group should be.
    I think if we have general membership meetings then we can become better organize and better communicate as a whole and not all posting on a message board. Always remember that not everyone is going to agree 100% of the time and everyone is going to make sacrifices and compromises including the elders, the FO and SOB general members.

    just my $0.02
     
  15. thechairman

    thechairman New Member

    Feb 14, 2008
    Bryn Mawr, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Having those meetings is a great idea. I think we need more during the off-season as we simply don't see each other as often. But there needs to be some reasonable estimation of how many people will come so that scheduling the times and locations is possible. We talk about 2000, 3000, 5000, I don't know what the actual number is. But like with any group, there is a core minority that will get involved in these kinds of meetings. I would say anyone who is on this board a lot would want to attend, or anyone who goes to a lot if not all of the matches would want to also.
     
  16. alessandro2016

    May 23, 2006
    We also need to take into account the burden on the leadership if such an event were to take place. While I like the idea of a semi-regular meeting for the general membership, is it reasonable to expect the elders (or whomever would be in charge of such a meeting) to take the extra time and effort required to organize this? There is already a significant amount of time and energy that they have placed into the SoBs.

    There are forums for discussing issues with SoB leadership now (tailgates, emails, BigSoccer boards, etc.) It's my feeling that if someone were active enough to attend a general membership meeting, they are already aware of the currently available forums to express their thoughts.
     
  17. oxfordcircle

    oxfordcircle Member

    Mar 28, 2007
    Northeast Philly
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I like the SoB "congress" idea mentioned earlier and I agree with CrazyUnionBox's post above.

    A quarterly general meeting in addition to the weekly meetings of the Elders and the 3 person section reps will go a long way to ironing out the wrinkles. As mentioned above, these meetings do not have to be free for alls. At the most primitive level, we would only need space to hold the meetings, a good PA system, 2 podiums and a few copies of Roberts Rules of Order.

    My reality is that I am an SoB first and Union fan second, but I understand where others are coming from with this. I still believe there is room for everyone in the SoB and that we can still be one big cohesive group
     
  18. ToonArmy5

    ToonArmy5 Member

    Oct 22, 2007
    Warminster
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Thats how I am too, but after speaking with Local136RiverRat about his post earlier I understand that not everyone is. And like we both agreed on, we're all here to have fun and support the union. With that in mind i'm sure we'll be able to iron out any issues and come back stronger louder and crazier next year.
     
  19. sully127

    sully127 Member

    Apr 3, 2010
    138, C
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    (this is not written in a hostile tone)
    It isn't a 'loyalty test'... the above are your words, not mine. You want to be in the River End, but you don't want to do anything that the SoB does... are you really an SoB outside of the fact that you paid dues, then? There's not necessarily anything wrong with that, but my question still stands: if you don't want to be part of the SoB, why are you a member? If you don't want to wear our colors or buy our gear or go to our tailgates, why did you join? To support the Union? You don't have to be in the SoB to do that if you don't want to. If it is about the perks of being in the River End (flags, banners, instruments, etc), then you're basically saying that you'll take anything you like that the SoB leadership can give you, but you won't listen to them on anything you don't like. To me, that's just not a fair mentality.

    Again, nothing personal, man. I hope you don't read it as an attack or anything, I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from. If I didn't want to be in the SoB, I wouldn't have joined, and if I didn't want to wear our colors or go to our tailgates as a result of how things have gone, then I wouldn't be renewing my membership. While there are some things that are less than ideal to me, I'm going to stick it out because I think we have some solid people in this group that bust their asses with no pay and little thanks to try to help all of us enjoy the games and atmosphere a lot more than we would otherwise (and I'm not just talking about the elders - there are a lot of members that do their part to shoulder the load as well).



    I don't understand this thought process either. Do you really think that the guys are sitting around on their conference calls saying "Let's tell them they can't do X this week... that'll really piss them off... mwahahaha?"

    Look at the ridiculous amount of fallout on this board alone over every decision that is made. Do you think volunteers feel like dealing with this nonsense unless it is absolutely necessary? Do you think that they're not trying every available option of dealing with things with the FO before bringing it to us... if for nothing more than the sheer selfish need of not having to deal with the backlash?

    I really believe that before things like that last e-mail (which I was upset over too as anyone who saw that thread can attest to), our guys are so backed into a corner that they don't have any other options or at the very least are looking out for our best interest (i.e. not wanting to see people getting kicked out for stupid stuff like YSA). I couldn't imagine getting a random call from the FO to get bitched at and berated for the actions of other people... the first five times, that has to be disappointing... by the tenth time, it has to just be maddening.

    Last week, tempers were short. A number of members were mad about the e-mail, the elders were mad that they were put in a position where they had to send it, and the FO was, presumably, mad that they had to ask again. That's when this talk of protest and factioning and some just talking about quitting came to a head. The sad part is: I understand everyone's side of the argument, but there's nothing you can really do about it. The FO is worried about their product which they have every right to be so they're laying down the law. The elders are stuck in a weird middle ground where the FO is yelling in one ear and the members in the other and neither are happy which then leads to the elders being pissed off. The members aren't happy because it feels like things are being taken away or that they're being talked to like children. You know what sucks? Everyone is right... you know what else sucks? Everyone is wrong, too.

    Wow... I went on a hell of a rant... sorry. Anyway, I don't know what the solution is or if there's a solution that's needed at all. I just think things came to a head at a time when there was a whole lot going on and everyone's tolerance was starting to wear thin. Yeah... dialog will definitely go a long way toward trying to make more people happy, but we need to all also come to the realization that nothing will make everyone happy; it just isn't possible. If you're an SoB, and you aren't happy with something, there should be a way to facilitate that discussion, and that discussion should definitely take place before people start to walk away, but there are definitely some people that probably should walk away, too.

    I'm just a nobody, though, so the above isn't worth a damn thing... just a (mostly-uninformed) opinion.

    END RANT
     
  20. CrazyUnionBox

    CrazyUnionBox Member

    Mar 14, 2007
    137 Seat 1
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I understand...

    Is it possible to have a standing room only event at the SOB tailgate area/warehouse for a first event to see how many could show up. I know we are most likely talking at the most 200 people or so if that. I think more may show up at first then as the SOB machine starts to run smoothly it will most likely tail off a bit. It is like anything if everything is going well no one will show up but if people are upset and have a problem then the world comes out.

    Another location might be a fire hall somewhere with a SOB "social" event after the formal meeting.
     
  21. thechairman

    thechairman New Member

    Feb 14, 2008
    Bryn Mawr, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, we still need to have some kind of a meeting in person so people can see each other outside of the matches or tailgates. For one, it would signify their intent and desire to work together on improving the club. It wouldn't have to be often and the burden (as you put it) of organizing could rotate amongst whoever volunteers so that it's equally inconveniencing to every one. (Unless we get a clubhouse that is. Hey whatever happened to that idea?)
    Any items left undiscussed or requiring further discussion can then be done through here.
     
  22. doopRAD

    doopRAD Member

    Aug 31, 2010
    OneThreeEight
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    I just want to be positive for a second:
    So last night at the USA game It was halftime and I went and did you know halftime things. Anyways I was walking back to my seats in 136 with this girl I was sitting with and I got stopped right outside the supporters section (as we do most games to make sure we have tickets to sit there, you show the guy in a yellow shirt your tickets and he lets you by and you walk down the hallway to your riverend seats) so he asks to see our tickets and she has hers shows him and he says “go ahead” to her, I check my pockets and I don’t have my ticket. I tell the guy I left it in my jacket pocket (which was the truth) and he says I cant go. “really? Are you serious?” I say. And he says that he is very serious. And says that the girl has to walk all the way back to our seats get my ticket and bring it back down to show him. Then I go into this diatribe about how I have season tickets and im here all the time, blasé blasé, he doesn’t care. So in a last ditch effort I take out my SoB membership card and hand it too him, he looks it over and says “my bad man, go ahead. Youre Good.” And I thought that was pretty Dooping cool. SoB till I die
     
  23. matt.medici

    matt.medici New Member

    Jan 29, 2010
    140 row D
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why not at the old tailgate area outside of the stadium or in Lot B next to the stadium (if allowed by the FO). On off days there would be plenty of parking and nothing would be going on.
     
  24. oxfordcircle

    oxfordcircle Member

    Mar 28, 2007
    Northeast Philly
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    BAM! Show card, gain entrance! Gotta love that security is working with us!
     

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