Charlotte Eagles - soccer for the chosen few

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by alexspepa, Oct 7, 2010.

  1. alexspepa

    alexspepa Member

    Jun 17, 2006
    Charlotte
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    why did i use that title - because here in Charlotte, NC, the Charlotte Eagles play in the lower division of the USL. They are owned by Missionary Athletes International, who use the club to spread their Evangelical Christian beliefs.

    They also use the club to discrimanate against players, coaches, etc. who do not share those beliefs. The club is on record as defending their decision to rescind an offer to a player who they discovered was a member of the Church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints - apparently being a Mormon disqualifies you from playing soccer in Charlotte. I can't imagine we would find too many Muslims on the team either.

    Charleston SC, 1/10th the size of Charlotte, draws 3200 fans a game to see the Battery - Charlotte Eagles average 1200 a match.

    I would love to pull for my local USL club - but there is no way that I could possibly support a club that does not open it's doors to people of all faiths. This is America for Christ's Sake - pun intended.

    I would love to hear some thoughts from other people - especially if any of the 1200 supporters of the club are on this site.
     
  2. DwayneBarry

    DwayneBarry Member

    Aug 25, 2008
    Well if it's a privately owned club, I'm fine with allowing them to be bigots. I say that as an atheist who wouldn't offer them the least bit of support and wouldn't shed a tear if they went belly up.
     
  3. AtlantaFan

    AtlantaFan New Member

    Aug 3, 2006
    I only recently learned that this team was owned by a Christian ministry - that has got to be singularly unique.

    It is a bit surprising if they only hire those who share their beliefs. I would of thought they would be more like Chick-fil-A - even though the company is owned by evangelical Christians who very publicly proclaim their faith, you do not have to be Christian to work at Chick-fil-A.

    However, Chick-fil-A is a business, not a ministry. Any type of religious organization, church or ministry has the right to select employees who are in sync with the organization's beliefs, faith or doctrine, as freedom of religion.

    When it comes to soccer though, I'd rather have the best players regardless of beliefs!!
     
  4. CCSUltra

    CCSUltra Member+

    Nov 18, 2008
    Cleveland
    Club:
    Hertha BSC Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Cleveland City Stars, a team I worked for, were also a non-profit, Christian charity. We were operated by Ambassadors in Sport, who also own a team in the Kenyan Premier League.

    I didn't realize the Eagles would rescind an offer to a non-Christian player. I know the City Stars did NOT work like this. We had players and staff of all different beliefs.

    The team, however, did do a lot of advertising and outreach through local evangelical churches.
     
  5. alexspepa

    alexspepa Member

    Jun 17, 2006
    Charlotte
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    here is the article i got my info on regarding rescinding the offer...this took place in 2005, but as far as i know the team still operates in this manner:

    http://newsnet.byu.edu/story.cfm/55463

    The Eagles do have a reputation for reaching out to the community and doing charitable works and clinics - where of course they can share their beliefs.

    Charlotte has recently had several soccer pubs open up that are doing well, and i really believe we could attract decent crowds to see a "normal" team - especially if you could buy a pint or two at the game. The Eagles currently play at a Christian School here in Charlotte, so of course that is out.

    It is interesting to me that Freedom of Religion actually allows them to be discremenatory in their employment practices.
     
  6. DavidP

    DavidP Member

    Mar 21, 1999
    Powder Springs, GA
    There is so much wrong with this (i.e., your post, not the Eagles) that I don't know where to begin, so I'll leave it at that.

    No, I won't. Every team discriminates by cutting players that don't make the grade. They also cut players who, while they may be good enough to play, may have lifestyles that aren't conducive to a team organization (dope, booze, irrational behavior, etc.). If you're a non-believer, I wonder why you even care. Private organizations can decide who joins them, and who doesn't (i.e., Gold Key, Mensa (too bad for Forrest Gump, Slingblade, and the banjo player from "Deliverance"), Rotary, fraternities/sororities etc.); if you don't meet the qualifications, you don't get in. So, if one of the qualifications of joining a Christian ministry is to be a Christian, (Mormons aren't considered Christians, (and if you study Mormonism, you'll see why)) well, there you go. I'm sure you'd have no problem whatsoever with a Christian being kicked off/not allowed to join a team with a secular mindset; it's only discrimination if you don't like it.

    Besides, wouldn't it be counter-productive to have an atheist/boozehound/dope-head/child molester/womanizer/crazy person in a position of Christian ministry? We have too much of that as it is.

    Here's a thought, if you don't like this, don't support it. Better yet, work to get an MLS or D2 team in Charlotte, or band together with some people and get an NPSL team there. Don't get your shorts all twisted up because a private organization is able to decide who joins and who doesn't.
     
  7. Minnman

    Minnman Member+

    Feb 11, 2000
    Columbus, OH, USA
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're creating a lot of false equivalencies in your post. And, of course, you're just making things up. Like: "I'm sure you'd have no problem whatsoever with a Christian being kicked off/not allowed to join a team with a secular mindset..."

    That, frankly, is just a dumbass thing to say.

    Look, this team is owned by a Christian ministry. But is it a Christian ministry or a soccer team? I don't care who you are or what you believe, if you own a business, it's illegal to discriminate on religious (and many other) grounds.

    Cutting a player who isn't good enough - just like firing an incompetent employee - isn't discrimination. Do you honestly not see the difference?
     
  8. Mikey mouse

    Mikey mouse Member

    Jul 27, 1999
    Charleston, SC
    Club:
    Charleston
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Im pretty sure the Missisippi Brilla is a non-profit christian based team.

    And Im pretty sure Charlotte is run as non profit so would it still considered a "business"

    the players also do some work outside the season. they went to Africa in January and have done similar trips as well

    That said, I and 50 or so other Battery fans made the trip up from Charleston twice this past year, it was interesting to say the least. Im not a big drinker but I usually do enjoy a beer at the match and I felt a bit reserved in case I said something offensive but most the people were friendly enough.

    and having been rivials on and off for nearly 20 years, I enjoy having it back
     
  9. DavidP

    DavidP Member

    Mar 21, 1999
    Powder Springs, GA
    The difference is this; just as you wouldn't want someone not of your faith teaching Sunday School or leading a Bible study in your church, if you are a Christian ministry, who happens to operate a team in the USL, you wouldn't want someone on the team who has a different religious viewpoint than the organization, especially if that viewpoint interferes with the mission of the organization. The players are not just players, they are missionaries. As someone who has studied the differences between the LDS faith and traditional Christianity, I know that there are enough differences to cause a problem. If it were a secular-based team, there would probably not be a problem, but it's not the case here.

    I read the article; it's obvious that it was written with an LDS bias, but it also says the government did not approve his visa, and the Eagles withdrew their invitation. So, either the Eagles didn't do their homework before they invited him, or maybe he just neglected to tell them, not thinking it would matter, or something.

    Bottom line: MAI is a ministry that does ministry through soccer, so to answer your original question, it's both; the organization owns the team As such, they, like any other organization, can choose their membership. This guy's faith was different enough to compromise the mission of this organization, so they decided not to sign him.
     
  10. alexspepa

    alexspepa Member

    Jun 17, 2006
    Charlotte
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't have a problem with a Christian Missionary group owning the Eagles - I have a problem with them denying roster spots based on religious beliefs.

    If you can not see the difference, well...

    And I suggest you re-read my posts, and then re-read yours - I stated my views in what I think is pretty non-antagonistic prose - yours is definitely hostile and quite frankly if you are what the Eagles are promoting, then have fun with your other 1199 fans.

    as for this statement:

    Besides, wouldn't it be counter-productive to have an atheist/boozehound/dope-head/child molester/womanizer/crazy person in a position of Christian ministry? We have too much of that as it is.



    Remove atheist from the comment and you may have a point.
     
    1 person likes this.
  11. CCSUltra

    CCSUltra Member+

    Nov 18, 2008
    Cleveland
    Club:
    Hertha BSC Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From what I know of the Eagles, they are a ministry that plays soccer. It's a ministry first and a soccer team second.

    They aren't trying to get huge crowds. They aren't trying to move up to MLS. They are quite content getting the 2000 they get a game, it's better than many minor league soccer teams.
     
  12. alexspepa

    alexspepa Member

    Jun 17, 2006
    Charlotte
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    according to their website they average 1200 a game.

    I understand they are a ministry first - that would be OK except they have a USL franchise, and are likely to be the only USL franchise in Charlotte for the foreseeable future.

    I would also like to apologize to David P for my unkind remarks last night - i should know better than to type while imbibing.

    I do stand by my original post - i do not think i said anything incorrect. Here is the quote from the CEO of the company that owns the Eagles:

    Someone of the LDS faith would have to agree that there is additional revelation when we say there isn’t,” Pat Stewart, CEO of MAI said

    Stewart said MAI did not think Emenalo was a good fit for the team, because he did not think Emenalo could meet MAI’s statement of faith. The statement of faith, in part, refers to MAI’s belief in the Old and New Testament. The fact Emenalo believed in additional scripture besides the Bible contradicted MAI’s recruiting standards, Stewart said.

    If that is not saying a player must subscribe to certain religious beliefs to be on the team, then what is he saying?

    David P obviously thinks the team is doing nothing wrong in being excusionary; that is his right just as it is my right to think their conduct is reprehensible. Frankly - I find it decidedly un-Christian.

    They may be within their legal rights, but it was also illegal not so long ago for African Americans in Charlotte to sit down at a lunch counter. Being legal does not always equate to being the right thing to do.

    thanks for all you comments - I will continue to boycott this team, and hope that someday I have an alternative local team to cheer.
     
  13. SheffWedFan

    SheffWedFan Member

    Dec 23, 2005
    Thousand Oaks, CA
    Club:
    Sheffield Wednesday FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    The Eagles have a formal affiliation with the Southern California Seahorses in the PDL Southwest division too - a lot of Seahorses players turn pro in Charlotte, and they are part of MAI as well.

    When the Seahorses play Hollywood United we have a lot of fun with creative banter from the bleachers. "That's a foul ref! Give him a yellow card and five Hail Marys!" That sort of thing. It's all very amusing really.
     
  14. DavidP

    DavidP Member

    Mar 21, 1999
    Powder Springs, GA
    Why? Would you want the pastor/youth minister/music minister of your church to be an atheist?
     
  15. DavidP

    DavidP Member

    Mar 21, 1999
    Powder Springs, GA
    With all due respect, you just don't get it. MAI is a Christian ministry, which foots the bill to put a soccer team in the USL. The players are Christian missionaries themselves. Having a Mormon on the team would be like having an unrepentant drunk leading an AA meeting. Mormons do not believe the same things that Christians do, so having a Mormon involved in a Christian ministry would be a conflict of interest, don't you think? Now, if the team was simply that, and perhaps owned by Christians, I'm sure having a person of another faith would not be a problem (sort of like the Chick-Fil-A analogy). But this is a ministry, and for some reason you don't seem to understand this.

    And it is not at all comparable to segregation; not at all.
     
  16. Minnman

    Minnman Member+

    Feb 11, 2000
    Columbus, OH, USA
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Accepting a generously offered olive branch doesn't come naturally to you, does it?

    If a church wants to sponsor a rec soccer team or some "barnstorming" club, I'd have no issue with who they have on the team (presumably, only members of the church). But they've chosen to own run a team that plays in a professional sports league. Calling the players missionaries is laughable. I'm not questioning their faith, not at all; just saying that their presence on a professional soccer team sort of calls to attention the fact that they are, well, professional soccer players. This team benefits from being a member of this league. As such, they shouldn't be able to decide who is and who is not on the team based on religious belief. That is, to me, a pretty obvious example of discrimination.

    I mean, doesn't it sound odd to you - odd in an un-American, un-Constitutional kind of way - that, by your logic, churches could run all sorts of businesses and hire only Christians, or Jews or Muslims or whatever based on the beliefs of the church that owns the business? You know, as long as they call their employees "missionaries."
     
  17. Howard the Drake

    Feb 27, 2010
    If an atheist applies to become pastor of a church and is denied, is that discrimination?
     
  18. alexspepa

    alexspepa Member

    Jun 17, 2006
    Charlotte
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    sigh...how do you pass up a soft pitch when served?

    David P - Atheists do not generally aspire to the positions you mention.

    However - to quote you - these people seem to be in charge of several congregations:

    boozehound/dope-head/child molester/womanizer/crazy person

    for some reason GA comes to mind.

    Thanks for replying - I will answer your other email tomorrow morning when i have time to think about it.

    Thanks also to everyone else for their responses - interesting topic, isn't it?

    Keith
     
  19. CCSUltra

    CCSUltra Member+

    Nov 18, 2008
    Cleveland
    Club:
    Hertha BSC Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The difference is these guys really are missionaries. To call them professional is to stretch the definition of professional. Maybe they make $5000 for the summer playing. These guys aren't making money playing soccer; they're making money working for MAI. One of the conditions of playing on the team is doing the missionary work the team does.
     
  20. DavidP

    DavidP Member

    Mar 21, 1999
    Powder Springs, GA
    Yes, those people have infiltrated churches, and it sucks. People get hurt because of it. And the situation you mention is still front-page news; still no clue as to how it'll come out.

    And by the way, I do accept your apology; it's all good. :) Sorry for not mentioning it earlier.

    We'll just have to agree to disagree on this. I can see where you are coming from, and if this wasn't a ministry, where everybody needs to be on the same page (and that's the rub; LDS has different beliefs than traditional Christianity), I could see your point. Lots of church softball teams are used as outreach opportunities, and welcome people of other faiths, and even no faith; if nothing else, it's a way to make friends and get exercise.

    Whether the Eagles should be in the USL or not, I guess we'll have to leave that to the USL.
     
  21. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I understand placing religious restrictions on who can be a Christian missionary. The question is if it is fair to combine the unrelated jobs (in the sense that being good or bad at one does not mean that you will be good or bad at the other) of soccer player and missionary in a way that can discriminate against soccer players of other faiths. If it is legal to combine soccer player and missionary into one job in that way, then what's to stop a public school from making their teachers be Christians and do missionary work during the summer? What would stop many businesses and other organizations that hire from preventing Jews, Muslims, atheists, etc. from working for them?
     
  22. alexspepa

    alexspepa Member

    Jun 17, 2006
    Charlotte
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    kind words indeed sir, thanks.

    this situation does bother me, and I did want to get other people's opinions, so I do appreciate you view, even if as you say we will have to agree to disagree.

    It's frustrating as a football fan that the only pro team in Charlotte is one I really cannot support.
     
  23. alexspepa

    alexspepa Member

    Jun 17, 2006
    Charlotte
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Minnman does a much better job of expressing my opinions than I did myself.
     
  24. crash2772

    crash2772 New Member

    Mar 18, 2001
    I came across this thread and found it unique around here. I can appreciate the arguments on both sides, and I perhaps my 2 cents might further the discussion.

    I see the point of contention stemming from how this team is viewed. If one views it the same as any other pro soccer team, it would seem the Eagles actions are in fact discriminatory. I was inclined to agree until I read a bit on their homepage.

    First, upon my first visit to their site I saw nothing related to missionary work on the homepage. Apart from a cross in their badge, they seemed just like any other team.

    It was after reading their history I see the difference, and simply put, it changed my opinion regarding their unfair, although not illegal, discrimination. It seems this team began almost 20 years ago, started by the employees of the missionary organization. Considering the fact that this organization specifically recruits athletes for its missionary work, its no surprise they had an interest in playing together. The fact they were great players simply means they found their level playing in the pro leagues instead of the local mens league. It seems they’ve moved divisions a few times over the years, indicative of the level of the player the mission group employs.

    Now that they play in the 3rd level of US mens soccer they probably do recruit employees for the mission organization specifically for their soccer abilities. Isnt this similar to some of the lower level teams in Japan?

    Would this be issue still if this was the local <insert major company> branch which fields a team in the local mens league? What if that <major companys> business has something to do with soccer, and therefore most of its employees play soccer. Consequently their company team dominated the local leagues. Eventually they allowed their employees to play in the low level pro leagues. At the end of the day, all the players on this pro team are employees of <major company>. Progression over the years simply means the now they specifically look for <engineers> who are also excellent soccer players to augment that company team.
     
  25. Howard the Drake

    Feb 27, 2010
    Public school teachers? Really$
     

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