"The Passion of the Christ" Thread

Jeff: If what you say is true, then what purpose was Christ's crucifiction?

I mean, under your scenario...the ENTIRE world could get to heaven, by not believing in Christ, but by acting like Gandhi?

And if the entire world is allowed to get to heaven by rejecting Christ, but only by acting and living their life like Gandhi, as you suggest, then why would God allow himself to be crucified? I mean, if God is perfect, so why develop in imperfect way to heaven?

I mean, it seems quite silly, this whole crucifiction thing, if the entire act is, as you point out, essentially MEANINGLESS.

Let's not mince words. Christ need not ever die under your theory of redemption. Seems pretty stupid act to allow your self...almighty God in this case, to be crucified, and then say...."Hey, it's ok that you don't believe in me, you lead a great life, so you get a free pass! That whole crucifiction thing by me was unnecessary for you."

C'mom...think about it....

 

That's OK, I like to hedge my bets. I'd also guess Mohatma's going to be better conversation.

 

See Mike, this is the kind of shizzle I was referring to.

 

I simply don't talk to people like that. There's no point trying to teach people who are completely, blindingly, ignorantly, disgustingly intolerant what tolerance means.

You're quick too. I didn't even finish editing my post before you replied.

 

How ironic, we finally agree. It is pretty stupid.
Its fairly simple, however, to suggest that Jesus died to cleanse you of the original sin, which no one else could do.
I believe it was Heinrich Heine who said on his deathbed that "God will forgive me, it is his business." I don't think I like the sort of God who's mollified by one platitude on one's deathbed. But then again, I've always found Christianity to be wondefully obtuse and contradictory.


Its a good thing a legal education prepares you for discussions on Catholic dogma.

 

Slesh? Isn't that the frozen drink Hindus sell at the local 7-11?

And yea verily, it was nicely fixed indeed.

 

not to split hairs or anything, but that group of Christians are fundamentalists. Generally, they take great pride in being known as fundamentalists and don't take kindly to being called evangelical. Evangelicals don't have nearly as hard of an edge and generally cringe at being lumped in with fundamentalists.

ricv56

 

Can a person receive salvation after leading a wicked life?

This is what Jesus said.....

Two men, both of them criminals, were also led out to be put to death with Jesus. When they came to the place called "the Skull" they crucified Jesus there, and the two criminals, one on his right, and the other on his left. One of the criminals hanging there hurled insults at him: "Aren't you the messiah, save yourself and us." The other one, however, rebuked him, saying, "don't you fear God? You received the same sentence he did. Our, however is only right, because we are getting what we deserve for what we did, but he has done no wrong."

And he said to Jesus, "Remember me, Jesus, when you come to the King!" Jesus said to him, "I promise you that today you will be in Paradise with me."

 

I like this article.

Particularly the closing paragraphs:

 

I understand. I'm just sayin' that wherever Jeff and Mo are, I'd rather be where Mo is, you know? According to USAsoccer, that's hell. So I'd better pack my bathing suit and suntan lotion.

 

How many guys on Death Row find Jesus? Slim & None have been joined by Fair.

 

Fair enough. Like I said, I grew up Catholic, and was taught at a very young age that there were two types of people - Catholics, who were going to heaven, and non-Catholics, who weren't.



I didn't know the difference between a Lutheran and a Prebyterian until I was probably in about the 10th grade. Before that, they were all just "Protestants," as far as I was concerned.

I'll call them fundamentalists too. Because they are fundamentally wrong. About a LOT of things, not the least of which is their bizarre pre-Rennaisance unenlightened Catholic view of Christianity.

 

There are two quick ways to answer this:

A) Christ wasn't God, son of God, or any god. (Which is what at least 2/3 of humans beleive anyway)

B) Christ was God (or son of God) but who are we to try to interpret's God's actions ? Maybe in all this doctrine we are missing the true nature of the crucifixtion ?

 

For the sake of argument, let's ignore the contradictions inherent in the concept of the Absolute being also somehow limited enough to intervene in history in a concrete, personal way and the question of why the Absolute would even need a Creation anyways, let's say that the Big Guy really wanted to save all humanity. Why would Big Daddy only send a savior who could reach only a tiny fraction of the human population? Why not send someone who could reach all peoples everywhere who could then choose to believe him or not as they wish? Sorry, but choosing this way of trying to save humanity doesn't make the Guy In The Sky look too bright.

And the quality of His chosen help... Let's see, according to the Gospels themselves, Jesus's apostles weren't exactly the sharpest knives in the drawer. And that's their supporters describing them! Yet, they were given responsibility for the salvation of the entire human race? What's up with that? And don't get me started on Paul.

Looking at how He's gone about trying to save the world, you'd think God WANTS most people to go to hell.

 

That was cute. It didn't address the question, but it was cute.

 

I always thought Phil Lynott would've been good playing Jesus or Judas in an off-Broadway production of Jesus Christ Superstar.

 

If God is omnipotent, then why must Jesus die at all? He does not have to die for you to believe he's the Savior.

Apparently the lesson God was trying to teach with Jesus didn't sink in with you. If the Almighty failed, I doubt I'll do any better, but I won't let that stop me from trying...

Jesus was God's example of how you should live your life. Jesus was so perfect in his love, he was willing to give up his life for others. He did these things not only without reward, but was punished in the most cruel way imaginable for it. We could never live up to the example, but we should try. If the effort is honest, God will forgive us our shortcomings.

Now, I'm not Catholic any more, nor Christian, nor even Deist. I'm atheist, but I got the message, and I act in a way that aspires to the model. My wife, as a matter of fact, is always upset with me because I am so giving of myself to others - I am readily willing to help other people with no demand or even hope of reward. The act itself is the reward.

My motivation is not Heaven - it's a better life here for all. I believe the gig is up when I die, but if there is a Heaven, and God turns me away only because I didn't believe in Jesus as my Savior... maybe that's not a place I really want to be.

 

Your post pretty much describes me to a T.

 

What makes you think you can know the mind of God?

 

No. You originally mentioned my good friends Slim & None in questioning the likelihood that someone like Idi Amin would accept Jesus on his deathbed. As a counterpoint, I asked how many Death Row inmates had accepted Jesus during their stay on the Row. Probably not a perfectly parallel example, but certainly ups the possibility that People Who Do Bad Things can find Jesus at opportune moments.

 

What makes you think you can know the mind of God?

 

I thought everyone on death row was really innocent.

 

So say you... I never said that, in spite of your constant invitation that I do so.

God judges us, not me or you....

 

I can never fully understand God, nor do I pretend to....

But God gave you and me His word, and His word can guide us....

A lot of people are attacking me...but I have not given MY opinion, all I have written is what Jesus said.

EVeryone's argument is NOT with me...It is with God. If you have a problem, I suggest you take it up with God...

How you may ask? Simple, just ask him...I am sure if you are sincere, He will provide you the answer you are looking for.