Nathan Sturgis to Ajax Orlando

I'd rather they go pro, but if they're not going to, it's good to see the kids playing PDL.

The PDL is not a bad level for 17 year olds, which McCarthy and Sturgis are, to be playing before they head off to college.

 

Remember Ajax intends to have an A-League team in 2005, too.

College? No way. If these kids live up to their billing, they'll be wisked off to Amsterdam, which is the whole intent of this program, I think.

 

I think that assumption is wrong, but this discussion has been had before. I remain skeptical as to just how much Ajax is in Ajax Orlando, but I agree with Sandon, it's probably a good thing these kids will be playing PDL.

One thing, the main problem I have with kids their age playing PDL are the chances they may be overmatched. It can be a pretty high level of play compared to what kids their age generally face. I wish MLS would scout the PDL more heavily, but I guess that's asking for too much.

 

Fair enoguh.

But it seems to me Ajax's only gain in starting this club would be to tap our talent, like they've attempted in South Africa. Especially considering they've signed two of the US's top prospects from Bradenton. Ajax must've made a fairly good offer to those two, considering their other possible options like college or Project-40 - something like vacations to Amsterdam, I'd bet.

 

But again you're starting with what I think is the wrong assumption: that this is necessarily Ajax's club. Every piece of information I've seen suggests that this is the Royale Orlando Football Club rebranded as Ajax Orlando for marketing purposes, but run by the same people who ran ROFC.

ROFC uses a contact at Ajax and gives them a proposition: "we'll give you x dollars and y percent of the take from various endeavors, if you allow us the use of your copyrighted trademarks here in the states. You'll increase your exposure here, and allow us to use your name as a draw to bring in the money for our various soccer camps and such." ROFC then becomes Ajax Orlando, finds a famous Dutch player who has been coaching in Ft. Lauderdale, hires him as technical director, and the transformation is complete.

There's little indication that this is anything at all like the setup in South Africa, or that Ajax itself has much of anything to do with running this club.

If Ajax was primarily looking for talent:

a) Why set up shop in Orlando, Florida in a relatively small population base, with a relatively small percentage of children in said base? If you wanted to get the most "bang for your buck" wouldn't you go to New York or Los Angeles or something?

b) Why are the camps strictly a "pay to play" sort of operation? It isn't like Ajax Orlando doesn't have the cash flow to run these things. The academies in Amsterdam and South Africa aren't run that way.

c) Why would you put Mark Dillon (head guy at the ROFC) in charge of this operation instead of one of your own people? I'm sure Dillon is experienced and he may be an excellent coach, but it seems odd Ajax wouldn't use its own people.

Again, everything I see leads me to believe that Ajax is renting out their brand name to a dude in Florida who has found an ingenious way to draw interest and publicity to his soccer program. Full marks to Dillon, and I think that the positives probably outweigh the negatives here, but that doesn't mean the program is quite what it would like people to believe it is. I have my doubts.

 

Oh and McCarty has already committed to the Tarheels and Sturgis has committed to Clemson:

http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/References/top_100.html

 

Hmm. I apparently wasn't aware of all the information surrounding the situation, so you present a strong case.

Nevertheless, if the organization was simply renamed and just affiliated with Ajax, I don't know why they're targeting youth nats, much less looking to build a new stadium or add an A-League franchise.

In any event, it seems to be mostly speculation at this point.

 

Oh I think Dillon is definitely looking to grow his club into something bigger, and certainly these plans are a sign of his aspirations. The only point I'm trying to make is that we shouldn't necessarily leap to the conclusion that this is an Ajax run outfit.

I think it's good business for Dillon and I also think that it's likely at least a small positive for soccer in this country, but I don't think it's that much of a radical shift from what is already occurring here as a real Ajax youth academy would be.

 

I know we're talking pretty much to each other but wouldn't it be cool to see the following?

1) Ajax sets up shop in SoCal -- the logical place to headquarter for U.S. talent

2) Ajax holds open, free tryouts, says "We are taking the best 18 players at each age group from U12 to U18." Supplements this with a bit of area scouting.

3) Accepted players follow the same training regiment as Ajax Amsterdam trainees. Price, of course, is free.

That's it. Ajax making the implicit statement that U.S. youth players are worth it, that a serious investment in U.S. youth players will be good economics for Ajax.

Unfortunately, neither they nor any other European team appear to believe that. Although to be fair, at least Fergie appears actively interested in the young American player, albeit not at the point of financing a U.S.-based youth development program.

 

JR, this would indeed be cool...but you know what? They are RIGHT to believe that.

There are five reasons to justify their belief.

First, to set up a program like that would probably cost upwards of a couple million annually. You could run the numbers, but they would have to spit out X number of players worth X dollars on the open market every X years to vault whatever hurdle rate they have. In other words, they would have to deliver. And it would be a long-term capital investment that they would have to expense, which few organizations like doing.

Second, to do so implies the NEED for those players. Does Ajax, seeing as how it is always in the hunt for 1st in its league, and always in the Champions' League mix, just through its current configuration, really NEED a pipeline of players from the USA? Nope, don't think so.

Third, you have the issue of "who owns the player?" and future NCAA eligibility (hey, some players, and their parents, are going to want to, or have to, got to school at the end of their youth club career).

Fourth, it can always pluck out the one or two "can't miss" prospects like John O'Brien without going to the time, expense, and administrative hassle of setting up Ajax LA. Other local outfits are developing those kinds of playes now, at no cost to Ajax. Funny though, how, there's only been one John O'Brien over the last 7 years. However, show them another John O'Brien, and I bet they might snarf him up.

Fifth, and finally, the USA seems to be doing a pretty good job at developing the handful of top players an Ajax might ultimately be interested in. "So," says the Ajax braintrust, "let them develop in the States in their own clubs, move into Bradenton and then the MLS ranks, and if they rise to the top, we can bring them over on free transfer....say, like that skinny little left winger, DaMarcus Beasley."

So for all of these reasons, and probably others, I think your vision of Ajax coming over here and setting up shop is a dream...a cool dream, but dream in the end.

 

Problem for Ferguson is that only players with an EU passport do him any good.

For Ferguson, New York or Chicago (or Boston or maybe Philadelphia) would make more sense because he'd have a better chance of finding a large group of passport eligible players. Would our laws allow such an outfit to descriminate based on that?

It'd be a great scheme for a division 1 English side whose youth academy is limited by geography. Set up shop in a city of 22 million people and have the local talent mostly to yourself.

 

More likely with Manchester United would be affiliating themselves with another team, in this case MLS, like the relationship they have with Royal Antwerp. I believe they bought a young Chinese kid during the transfer window and sent him to Belgium until he can at least get a work permit.

 

Ajax doesn't like the base level coaching that players receive here. On top of that, any kid that they find is likely good enough for the national team, and they don't want their players having to leave all the time to go play in CONCACAF's meaningless(in their minds) games...

The talent is way too spread out in the U.S. for it to be economically feasible.

A better idea would be for U.S. coaches to adopt the Ajax methodology and apply it to their players...but obviously the kids won't come out as skilled unless the volume of training they receive is equal to that of their Dutch counterparts..3 times a week isn't enough but that seems to be the US club soccer norm..

 

Now if someone here could build a business plan to justify the construction of the academy (and the accompanying educational portion - or partner with schools), then a club like ajax could select a youth team of, say, 20 players at the high end. At 30K a year, that would be about 2.5 million to run those kids through a four year program. If one (or two) of those kids turns out to John Obrien or Tim howard quality, then they can sell him on the market and make their money back, and then some.

That would be the only real incentive to set up shop here- there simply must be a cost jusfitication for doing so. The player pool potential in america is tremendous given some time and dedicated environments. The teams that are established here, brand wise or other, will be able to capitalize on this growing, practically untouched marketplace for young players.

 

one major problem that Ajax faces in signing Yanks is the minimum salary requirement for Non-European passport holders €388,000.00

They aren't going to splash that cash around unless the kid is a first teamer and each year that number seems to go up.

 

Yes, this is a possible business plan, but there's technically a whole lot of problems with it:

1) FIFA rules prohibit European teams from signing foreign kids until their 18th birthday.
2) A kid who signs a professional contract with an "Ajax" club in the US, other than P-40, is not going to be able to play in college. My understanding is that the NCAA has blessed the program but will subtract a year of elligibility for each year they're a P-40.
3) There's a ton of problems with developing players you don't have control over. Even if a 16-year-old kid signs a contract, is it enforcable in court? Is a contract signed by the kids parents enforcable when the kid turns 18?
4) Would any kid be willing to commit to a not-very-likely chance of playing for Alax and in return give up his chance to go to national camp in Bradenton and play for the U-17's?

It should also be pointed out that "Ajax" Orlando has signed a couple of kids to PDL contracts, but they're not able to accept money for playing. To me, it just sounds like they're trying to promote their club and it's really no big deal. In fact, so far it looks like the entire "Ajax" Orlando thing is no big deal.

 

Karl -

Yeah, at $2 million per year this idea doesn't fly.

But look, my kid's club (and your's) makes do at $1500 to $2000 per child. Figure a lower coach-to-kid ratio at Ajax, increased travel costs (since parents aren't footing the bill), and some additional costs as Ajax helps the parents manage the school/club transportation thing, and surely Ajax could do this for $5K to $7K per kid.

Now, at 7 x 18 youths for U12 to U18, we're talking an annual investment to Ajax of $600k to $900k.

That might work. One very good player every 5 years that could be sold for $3 million to $5 million would foot the entire bill.

Of course, when compared with Europe, the U.S. market has the drawbacks that your potential star may be lured by colleges or the appeal of staying at home in sunny U.S.A. But it also is an untapped market, as opposed to all those hordes of scouts crawling around in Europe.

Wouldn't work for U.K. due to its labor laws. But for countries with less restrictive labor laws ... maybe? I've heard of crazier things.