WE Need a Go..d..n Intervention...

Discussion in 'Chicago Fire' started by Fonsos, Sep 20, 2010.

  1. Fonsos

    Fonsos Member

    Sep 21, 2000
    Chicago
    Actually you should care about the source you're pulling quotes from kinda helps establish some credibilty in supporting your argument. What's next the SUN or Mad Magazine?

    "Soccer Playbook"???
    Stop and think. Why on earth would a coach in this or for the matter any other league give out that much information before the start the season knowing damn well that in the league of single entity that a player could be a part of another team like "snaps fingers"? It's why I'm so damn patronising and condescending. It doesn't make any goddamn sense and although they quote St. Pete, I don't believe it's that cut and dry with him. Matter of fact I'm sure he spends time with each player explaining where they need to be coming into camp and other expectations. In that sense, he's no different than a good H.S. Coach and it is the norm at all levels starting at H.S. all else in that quote is Bunk because they gotta get together in camp and work collectively. He told them what they wanted to hear. No more and alot less than they wanted but that's all they got. Happens all the time.

    Teams do exit interviews at the end of each season and the above is covered, so that's the soccer bible. Even if the coach is removed, that information is (or should be) documented and used as a reference. ALL good clubs a system like it in place and if not then they probably don't fall into the good clubs category.

    Thanks for adding why you posted the quote
    Only a fool would argue against this statement. Hell, is there anyone who can honestly answer the above statement.

    Fonsos
     
  2. Fonsos

    Fonsos Member

    Sep 21, 2000
    Chicago
    Futbol Snobs?

    Grasshoppa Not I, I didn't use the word "Futbol", so who's the snob?

    Look!!!
    Expecting the professional team you support to actually act like a Pro team should be the norm. I hope like hell the MLS doesn't become the EPL seeing how much talent is actually developed in the EPL and the affect it has on England's national team, I'll pass on that and prefer the MLS become something like Serie A, La Liga or Bundesliga, leagues that can export players but keep their core at home and perform well on a global perspective. MLS has actually done a good job of developing players.


    Fonsos
     
  3. Es Brennt

    Es Brennt Member+

    Feb 25, 2003
    Shermer, Illinois
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Wow.

    The opening rant was entertaining and solid stuff, but the fear of people adding additional valid points is killing the discussion.
     
  4. snkscore

    snkscore Member+

    Jun 24, 2007
    La Grange, IL

    A lot of this is wrong in my opinion. Here are some facts:

    1) Lots of people didn't think Busch was one of the best keepers in the league, including the head coach of this team and likely the GM as well. You might have thought he was one of the best, and maybe you were right, but the people running the team and many fans disagreed.

    2) We didn't give Busch away for "almost nothing", we gave him up for NOTHING. 0, zilch, zip, nada. Why? Because not a single team in all of MLS would accept a trade for him. We CUT him, so that means we would have taken anything in return for a trade, a draft pick, allocation money, anything, and we got no one in the entire league willing to take John Busch. This further underscores the notion that he was not regarded as a "top keeper".

    3) With the benefit of hindsight, cutting Busch was a fantastic move for this club. One of the best moves we made this year without question.

    4) When you are overpaying a player and have young talent waiting to take their place, it isn't "you pay him, they've earned it" simple. It's a complex decision and someone needs to make a call. The call was made to move on from the Jon Busch area, free up cap room, give the next generation of keepers a shot, and it as worked out fantastically well.

    5) We didn't "luck out" with Johnson any more than we were "unlucky" with Dykstra. The coaches knew they had drafted a great young keeper, and they probably over-evaluated Dykstra a little (or maybe he's not as good with the pressure or whatever), but the fact is they looked at the 2 young keepers they had and decided that odds are 1 of them would turn into a quality keeper and they couldn't keep 3 keepers on the squad. They evaluated the situation and took a calculated risk and it worked out amazingly.



    I'm started to agree with this position more and more.

    When Dennis was about to be fired I asked the following question on BS: "How many points would you be willing to give up to see attractive, exciting, smart, attacking soccer?" I figured 5 points was my personal level of acceptance. I figured we'd try to play attractive soccer, maybe lose a few 3-2 games instead of 0-0 draws and drop a few points along the way.

    We've lost a lot more points than that, but I don't see any attractive soccer. I wouldn't be as upset with missing the playoffs if I thought we were reshaping the team and learning to play an attacking/passing game. But it seems like we are doing the same old poor quality style.
     
  5. Fonsos

    Fonsos Member

    Sep 21, 2000
    Chicago
    LOL, didn't know it possible in BigSoccer, did ya?
    Come to think of it, we better record this date in history.

    :D
    Fonsos
     
  6. Tom Dunmore

    Tom Dunmore BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 11, 2005
    Indianapolis
    Eh? I just pulled an interesting (to me) quote by Nowak from a Soccer America piece that I linked to - anyone could click on it to check where it was from. It was clearly from Soccer America, a credible enough source: as far as I know, they are not known for making quotes up. I still don't understand what your comment meant with your reference to Soccer America at all. You wrote "You actually quoted Soccer America. Please!!! Stop & think."

    What exactly is wrong with quoting a Nowak interview from Soccer America? I'm lost.
     
  7. Fonsos

    Fonsos Member

    Sep 21, 2000
    Chicago
    Tell ya what, you wanna discuss it, we can do so over a beer sometime.
    The thread is about the issues with this team and why it sucks so damn badly not your quote and why I'm dissing the source. Are you in on continuiing with the thread's discussion?

    Our team sucks and it was done by our own people, totally an inside job.
    We need a new coach an upgrade. The current one is a nice man and seems to be pretty sharp but this is a match made in hell for he and we as fans.
    We've got a team with some good players and have underperformed in a way that none of us could have imagined.


    Fonsos
     
  8. Es Brennt

    Es Brennt Member+

    Feb 25, 2003
    Shermer, Illinois
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Oh come on.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Thebizkit

    Thebizkit New Member

    Sep 6, 2006
    Assuming Run DLC is gone next season, who do we go after as manager? Do we kinda take a step back and admit that maybe MLS teams should be coached by MLS people and not guy's from South America who run a system that does not work at this level?

    I'm just so shocked that a team with very good talent on offense just sucks to high heavens!

    Maybe we are putting too much blame on DLC, maybe McBride sucks and we just dont want to admit it. Maybe Conde is not soo good, maybe CJ Brown cant defend anyone who runs under a 5.00 on a 40 yard dash, maybe the mid field misses Blanco's creativity and passing.

    On paper we should be good but we aren't and when that is usually the case in any-other sport we blame the manager but why do I feel like its deeper than that?
     
  10. ratdog

    ratdog Member+

    Mar 22, 2004
    In the doghouse
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    McBride was done as soon as he got hurt last year.

    John sucks.

    Castillo sucks.

    Ljungberg, Pappa, Nyarko and the rest of our midfield have nobody in front of them worth passing the ball to - until Carr comes into the game! How freaking sad is THAT?

    Idiots whine about Pause backpassing but until Freddy came along, he had nobody in front of him worth passing to either.

    Meanwhile, Conde has decided to suck, CJ keeps plugging away gamely but is past his best, Kinney's good but still a rookie, the coach hates Krol for reasons nobody knows and Sega has yet to prove his time in Cyprus hasn't damaged him beyond repair.

    And finally, we have a coach who not only can't seem to get anything out of what should be a damn good roster but under whom many promising youngsters are languishing or degenerating rather than progressing and who is wedded to a formation that doesn't work. Does that remind you of anyone?

    There have been bright spots this year and I think that a coach who knows what he's about could make us very good next year by bringing in a few fowards, two center backs, keeping Ljungeberg and giving us a well-defined plan to execute. Or a "playbook", if you prefer. He'd work on basics like how to defend set pieces, how to attack the far post, how to deliver a quality cross, how to pass and trap the ball, etc.

    As an organization, we'd stop ********ing around with crap like the Twisted Sister Cup and the Stuporliga and get back to what matters instead of trying to cynically bilk Mexican-American fans and Eurosnobs out of their money while wrecking our league campaigns and getting bounced from the USOC by U-12 teams.

    Yeah yeah, I know, that's crazy talk but a guy can still dream, right?
     
  11. snkscore

    snkscore Member+

    Jun 24, 2007
    La Grange, IL
    Mexico is not part of South America.
     
  12. Chris M.

    Chris M. Member+

    Jan 18, 2002
    Chicago
    Welcome to all of the arguments I was making the last two years, even though we were much more successful. There is only so much a coach can do. The problem now is that the coach has lost this team (I think). They aren't playing any more.

    As to his system, I don't think it "works" at any level with the exception of taking a small CONCACAF country and grabbing enough 0-0 draws to make their fans think that they have a chance to qualify. No club can even win with this type of negative system. He might work at well in England with a promoted team doing nothing more than trying to steal enough points to avoid relegation.
     
  13. krolpolski

    krolpolski Member+

    And he was so good of a coach, MLS teams and USL1 teams that were without coaches flocked to him to take over their teams? No? IIT. That collegiate soccer powerhouse picked him up.

    So if everyone else in the American pro/college soccer world didn't think he was a good enough coach, why should we?

    But that's history. I'm agreeing with you that our present coach is the cause of our on-field woes. The Mike Banner Experiment continues to amaze me. The fact that Lundberg continues to dribble to either the end line or until he is disposessed hasn't been corrected. The non-existant possession. The inability to get any shots on goal. The back passing. The dumb defensive mistakes.

    Like others said, this team has good players. But they aren't playing as a team.

    Nowak's idea is great. Shows someone who gets it. Innoculate your players before the season with the germs of teamwork and playing style and you won't have to try and drum it into their heads in the dressing room before the opening whistle.

    As for the Sun, having been a reporter and competing against theirs, I can tell you, they are more right than wrong.
     
  14. Fonsos

    Fonsos Member

    Sep 21, 2000
    Chicago
    The Nowak idea isn't different from most good coaches anywhere and on most levels and isn't the issue here. I don't know what DLC did with the players on this team before the season started, didn't bring it up and as far as I'm concerned it doesn't have any relevance at hand here. Why? It's because they spent foreva in training camp, no amount of reading and discussing will ever take the place of actual practice. This team spent over two months give or take in training and they still didn't get it? We're talking most of a season and many of us still don't have a clue what this team does on the field aside from getting it's ass handed to them and we've got camera angles and instant replay. Truly amazing stuff if you ask me, not that you were.
    ;O)

    This team has some smart people playing and if they're having trouble it goes back to the coach. An entire team doesn't just become crap after being one game from the Cup final and with a number of players who performed well the previous season.

    I'm not gonna get into the Denis discussion but I'll share a few things about him. He's got a better rep in this league than you and a number of people could imagine and I'll leave it at that. What I do find interesting is that the coach from last season whom many continue to slam had most of the members of this team performing a hell of alot better than the current one who is supposed to be a better coach.

    All I'm saying about the Denis issue in relation to this thread. It's about the current coach and not last season's coach.

    Fonsos
     
  15. Iceblink

    Iceblink Member

    Oct 11, 1999
    Chicago
    Club:
    Ipswich Town FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Actually, I was just thinking about this the other day. The sister cities cup was the best time I've had watching a live soccer match in Chicago in years.

    I really enjoyed it, and I'm looking forward to next year. That said... it was not fun watching the Fire in it. It was even nice seeing what decent quality team swag looked like.
     
  16. Thebizkit

    Thebizkit New Member

    Sep 6, 2006
    I know lol, sooo what are you saying?

    I dont think we have ever had a Mexican manager. Why not take a look at some guys down there?

    What I just find weird is that this guy came in talking about exciting attacking soccer, a fast tempo, offensive minded etc and all we have seen is one guy in the box lol. I almost feel like he was hired as one thing and what we got was a total opposite!

    The Fire play for the draw from the first minute of every game... It just drives me nuts.
     
  17. Chris M.

    Chris M. Member+

    Jan 18, 2002
    Chicago
    It's not really weird. Virtually every coach says the same thing at their introductory press conference, even if they intend to play the most dire, boring soccer in history. Of course some coaches, like Carlos, temper it by saying that they want to play beautiful soccer but obviously, they need to get results.
     
  18. Fonsos

    Fonsos Member

    Sep 21, 2000
    Chicago
    LMAO!!!

    We're getting neither.

    All we're getting is pissed off and in a unified manner.
    Truly a talent when you get those of us on the boards to agree.

    LMAO!!!!
    :D

    Fonsos
     
  19. snkscore

    snkscore Member+

    Jun 24, 2007
    La Grange, IL
    Where, exactly, do you think our current manager is from?
     
  20. Chris M.

    Chris M. Member+

    Jan 18, 2002
    Chicago
    He comes from a vast, goalless wasteland where lone strikers toil in obscurity amongst the shifting sands on the outskirts of possessionville, disturbed only by the occasional backpass seeking the sanctuary of our defensive end.
     
  21. Thebizkit

    Thebizkit New Member

    Sep 6, 2006
    Well I guess what I meant is we should get a guy who's last job was coaching a good Mexican team, DLC has not coached a relevant one since what 96 and that was not even something to write home about.
     
  22. snkscore

    snkscore Member+

    Jun 24, 2007
    La Grange, IL
    I'm pretty sure you either had no idea DLC was Mexican, or you think El Salvador is in South America.
     
  23. Chris M.

    Chris M. Member+

    Jan 18, 2002
    Chicago
    He is from the Land of Suck.
     
  24. Thebizkit

    Thebizkit New Member

    Sep 6, 2006
    To be honest I did not know he once coached Club America. I just figured he coached the same style of defensive minder soccer than most South American teams play, with the obvious exception of a couple ;-).
     

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