News: The Bob Bradley Re-signing Thread (signed through 2014)

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by giffenbone, Aug 30, 2010.

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  1. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Re: The All-Encompassing Bob Bradley Thread (signed through 2014)

    Thank you. I wrote that post, and for the most part it went un-noticed.

    I am not bashing BB, he did well with what he brought to the table as far as tactical style of play went (bunker ball), but we can play a different type which can bring out the best of us under a different coach. I stated Pellegrini. I keep bringin him up because I like him. Would he actually coach us or did we make contact? I have no idea, but Sunil isnt telling.

    Either way thats how I see our team.
     
  2. gyr0

    gyr0 New Member

    Mar 31, 2002
    NYC
    Bradley got us to the round of 16 and has formed a solid core of players for 2014. I think this is a great appointment. Go get em Bob!
     
  3. TheLostUniversity

    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Feb 4, 2007
    Greater Boston
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Attaboy!
     
  4. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Thats the thing though, the problem isnt the core of players he rounded up, its what he does with them!
     
  5. dwsmith1972

    dwsmith1972 BigSoccer Supporter

    May 11, 2007
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have ranged this past cycle (as a Metro RB fan) from a Bob critic, to Bob skeptic, to reluctant supporter to a realistic admirer. Still, I wanted a fresh approach and new regime. But this thread and many of the garbage characterizations is actually making me a Bob supporter.

    While somewhat tactically rigid, we did not play bunker ball. On offense, as the cycle went on, we played more inventively and aggressively than any US team I can recall. Unlike times past where we seemed more dependent on very solid defense and set piece goals, we created many goals and scoring opportunities from the run of play. Yet people want to call him bunker bob. If anything, as others have pointed out, our issues were on defense. And there is a whole swath of area between bunker ball and barcelona possession.

    I would love for us to play a possession style and one day we may, but not until we have guys in the backline who are capable of doing so and at present we simply do not have those guys. So neither Aragones, Pep, Del Bosque nor Pellegrini has some coaching Rosetta Stone to turn Boca or Demerit into Pique, Lucio or Puyol.
     
  6. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    I disagree, we played beautifully against teams that were below us or mexico, like that ass whooping we handed them in houston. I was so proud of our boys, their calm on the ball, the ball movement, possession, etc.

    But then you'd see them get 'scared' and often from nerves, kick the ball down the field (when faced agaist teams that are better then them), or Bradley often over do it with long passes almost to 'hot potato' the ball. Same goes with Bornstein, Demerit, Bocanegra. The shocking thing is, the one defender who actually WAS calm on the ball often looking to dribble a little bit and smoothly transition it to our def. mid to start a ground play was Gooch.

    I disagree that it is our backline that lacks talent. Bornstein plays COMPLETLY different on Chivas USA then wiht the Nats. Now that may be because the level of play, but you can tell the kid is getting better and more confident on the ball (and will only get better when thrown into the style of play that is in mexico), and with the right NT coach we can learn to make things work for him when he is in trouble. Team chemistry is the utmost important piece when it comes to possession oriented play.

    To play it at its finest form, everyone is a chain. Like the saying goes, you are only as strong as your weakest link (or something like that lol), which at sometimes would be Demerit, or Bornstein when the ball is to their feet. Its the job of bradley, Torres, Edu, Dempsey to make themselves open or to swarm either of them to give off the ball on the ground, and not let them resort to mindless clearing of the ball.

    It can be argued all day whether we have the talent but we dont have the right coach, or if we don't have the right talent and no coach can bring this style of play out of our guys.

    I am an optimist, and believe in our boys and think our starting 11 all could play a possession style game. They just need to change their 'foundation' mentality of clearing it when panic'ed.
     
  7. dwsmith1972

    dwsmith1972 BigSoccer Supporter

    May 11, 2007
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    First, he by and large plays left midfield. So yes, he does play differently for Chivas than the US.

    Secondly, if an adult player is lacking in technical skill, confidence and calmness on the ball, no coach will be able to instruct such players to execute proper passes to central midfielders making the appropriate off the ball movements.

    That is to say, putting xavi hernandez on team usa, despite making us a better team, will not absent anything else make demerit calm under pressure and more able to make an accurate pass to a properly checking xavi. I love jay but he has limitations that are beyond coaching at this point.
     
  8. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    I dont think any of our players is lacking in that department. Frankly, take out Demerit and inser our future CB star, Big Omar, and we have a player that is very comfortable with the ball at his feet for a CB. He was a forward at one point in college I believe.

    Bornstein like i said will get better, but all our core players for this next run have the ability to be comfortable with teh ball, they just need to get used to that playing style for our NT, work on chemistry with their teammates under this style of play, and work from there. You just need to learn how to 'show' for a player when it comes to possession. Off the ball movement is the most impotant part, and trust in your fellow teammate.

    Too many times in teh brasil match, or in the holland match/czech match did I see Bradley when covered by 2 guys, instead of trusting his fellow CM in Torres I believe, which he could have passed it to him as he was by himself in the center, instead he'd choose to battle tank it down the wing until he was forced out of bounds or stripped away which led to it going out of bounds.

    Donovan too sometimes did this also. I KNOW he is capable of a more possession game, and is better then that. He just needs to know to trust the central players / other players around him, like we seen from brasil when they played us, or like you see in more possession oriented teams and leagues.
     
  9. dwsmith1972

    dwsmith1972 BigSoccer Supporter

    May 11, 2007
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    that gonzalez was not part of the previous cycle is part of my point. Absent a flux capacitor or kick ass hot tub, its poor form to rebut an argument that playing possession style soccer is primarily a function of coaching ability and then airdrop a player from the present and future back into the past cycle as an example of how that coach could go about implementing that style.....well, you could, but it would be less than awesome.
     
  10. gmonn

    gmonn Member+

    Dec 8, 2005
    I find the argument from Arena and many others that Bob can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, to be backwards. He's coaching players with EPL, Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A, and Ligue 1 on their resumes--when he's never coached in a league anywhere near that level. And it's the players who aren't good enough? Many of his players are already under coaches whose jobs Bob probably covets, and then the argument is made that a more expensive coach would be wasted on them. It's status quo rationalization.
     
  11. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Its useless to talk about our past games anyways(that was not my point). I meant about the future of our NT for 2014 (which was the overall bigger picture and point of my last post). Demerit is done basically. He was our weakest link, and made up for his bad vision on the ball and passing out the back, with his rough style of defense, and his ability to take players down when 1v1. With Gonzalez he would be an upgrade at least at ball skills, and passing out the back for this next round.

    Thats my point, I am talking about the future. We have potential to be a NT that is good with the ball. Combine our athletic ability with a more possession style approach to our NT, and we really can be something. I'd think similar to Chile, if davies comes back like he was.

    But hey, thats my opinion. You may/probably wont agree with me anyways.

    Good post.
     
  12. russ

    russ Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Canton,NY
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Repped.
     
  13. beamish

    beamish Member+

    Jul 6, 2009
    Robert Jonas: Bringing Bradley Back the Right Move

     
  14. Pablo Chicago

    Pablo Chicago Member+

    Sep 7, 2005
    Sweet Home Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I find the argument that we should throw lots of money at a foreign coach, without addressing the current control issues inherent in a governing body that is joined at the hip to the league and marketing, to be backwards.

    I'm all for paying top dollar for a qualified coach, but as long he is going to have to report to a micro-manager in a 3-headed organization full of micro-managers, we might as well shrink wrap a bunch of small bills and air drop them over Iraq.
     
  15. Non-dairy Creamer

    Feb 28, 2007
    people like myself and Bolivian keep saying it and I guess I'll say it again, we are not saying that the US men's team needs to or can play like Barca or Brazil, but there's no excuse for the lack of teamwork and running off the ball that we presently display -- and yes, sorry, but that is on the coach. You don't need to grow up in the barrios of Rio to play that way. It's about coaching the players as to what you want and following thru and making adjustments when they don't.


    well said again, alot of simple possesion, and I say simple to differentiate, hopefully, from the "we can't play like Barca crowd", is a matter of movement off the ball and supporting your teammates. Soccer isn't about what the guy with the ball does, it about what the 9 others do without the ball. It's not dribbling with the ball and literally running into 2 players like your trying to drive thru a brick wall. Anyone who doesn't believe me should just go back and re-watch the WC games. You'll see us do that alot.

    it's the movement of the players and this has nothing to do with skill and growing up poor in Buenos Aires. If they don't have it , it needs to be told to them and coached to them and shown them and then expected of them. I see players play differently , attitude, work rate, awareness, for their club teams than for the Nats (dempsey at fulham is a great example) and that tells me it's the coaching and expectations. And quite frankly, I think some guys are just given their shirts and aren't hungry. The recent Brasil game at the Meadowlands is a great example , they looked bored with it all, like they couldn't be bothered mostly.



    many of our players are not "properly checking" right now, that's our point. it takes no great skill to properly check, in fact , we should have it in spades since we have great athletes who hustle. Right?


    you are 100% right but b/c you mentioned he who shall not be mentioned you're going to get eveyone's hackles up and they'll instantly tune you out. Just a warning. (and other US Nat's are guilty as well so this isn't just an MB problem)

    it's about better teamwork and we do have it in us. I too am positive we can do it!



    +1 , so perfectly said, bottom line: the US Men's National team has never had so many guys playing in Europe, so many with overseas experience exposed to the highest level training, nutrition, and coaching methods. Compare 2010 with just 15 years ago even! And the problem is I don't see us improving one bit, in fact we may be regressing. we beat Mexico at home, big deal, go and research the records over the last 10 years - wins/losses/GF/GA and you'll see why it's nothing new, we win the Gold Cup (always plaed in the US, done it before, no real progress at the World Cup either.

    or another analogy, how many young european hockey players come to Canada and the US to play junior hockey here? tons, b/c the game is king here (the US b/c of infastructure and money more so than related hockey crazyness) the facilities, coaching, organisation, number of teams and general hockey culture is all the best in the world. So for them it's great and a step up --it's just the same for our players in europe and soccer.
     
  16. Non-dairy Creamer

    Feb 28, 2007
    again, many of us aren't neccasarily arguing for an expensive coach, in fact, many of us have said we should look to S.A. precisely b/c there are many coaches there that are technically aware, raised in a soccer culture, and would most likely come cheaper than a euro coach. It does not have to be an expensive, european coach. Period.

    we might as well shrink wrap a bunch of small bills and air drop them over Iraq -- well, why don't we all just throw ourselves off the tallest nearby building and forget about the whole ********ing thing. Or we could've hired Klinsman sometime over the last 8 years and he could've told how to improve things -systematically. The 10 year german youth movement is working brillantly, did you see die Mannschaft at South Africa??????



    quite frankly I'm sick and tired of hearing these euro coaches, player and admin people interviewed about US Soccer, MLS and everything else and using their comments as somehow bona fide proof that all's just hunky-dorey in LaLa land.

    Note to y'all: they are here on a pre-season, marketing, PR, hype tour trying to grow their "brand" and sell shirts. It does not behoove them to say the truth. all the media , like insecure little twats, always asks everyone about the league, the nat. team , almost in some vain attempt to fish for positive, stroke my you-know-what answers.

    What do you really expect them to say? That BB's agent called Fulham, not the other way around and they weren't interested, and that he was never considered for the Villa job, despite the always accurate and never sensational:) english press?

    I don't care what SAF said about anything, he's in america on a pre-season tour, he's not biting the hand that's feeding him.

    Seriously, stop with the rediculousness.
     
  17. beamish

    beamish Member+

    Jul 6, 2009
    Telling a reporter that American fans are a bunch of ingrates and saying that their players aren't as good as they think isn't really a form of flattery.
     
  18. Pablo Chicago

    Pablo Chicago Member+

    Sep 7, 2005
    Sweet Home Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ok. You first.

     
  19. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    I am pretty sure it was that, just like last time, his ability to meddle with youth NT's was the deal breaker last time, not money.
     
  20. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

    Aug 13, 2010
    Christen Press's armpit
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, being able to play the ball out of the back would be nice.
     
  21. RedBaron

    RedBaron Member

    Sep 9, 2001
    Pennsylvania
    Club:
    ACF Fiorentina
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Regarding how realistic some of the alternatives to Bradley may have been, I agree that being open to the possibility of a South American or a Latin influence would have been wise, and probably would have been cheaper than a similar European counterpart. If money were really a dealbreaker in finding a suitable alternative to Bradley, the South American option may have been a way around it.

    I do think, though, that the more Gulati pondered the possibility of actually replacing Bradley the more important the language issue...i.e., ability to communicate effectively in English...probably became. This is one more reason that a Klinsmann leapt so visibly to the top of the list as far as potential foreign managers, and likely a reason others did not.

    On the topic of off the ball movement, I have to say that while I'm also in that camp that believes the current personnel could play a more possession-oriented game, expecting a national team coach to really school a player at this point in their career on off-the-ball running and positional sense is expecting too much. You can teach someone the virtues of making off-the-ball runs and perhaps demonstrate them to some degree, but by and large like positional sense it is very much an innate skill. Sure, the concept is simple, but it isn't just running to space; it's running to space with a broader sense of how that movement will disadvantage the other team while not similarly placing your own team in jeopardy by virtue of that movement (i.e., defensively).

    Off-the-ball running is important, but I don't think the presence or relative lack thereof is something that can legitimately be pinned on Bob Bradley (and I'm not reluctant to pin blame on him when warranted). If it's not happening because of laziness, then yes, it's legitimate to find fault somewhere. However I'd reason that isn't the real issue; get me some players with a higher soccer IQ and then you'll get some more sophisticated movement.
     
  22. Non-dairy Creamer

    Feb 28, 2007
    you angry :mad:

    I hope you get help with you problems, professional if needed.

    and besides, I'm not the one with my panties in a bunch, I actually have faith in the team.
     
  23. Pablo Chicago

    Pablo Chicago Member+

    Sep 7, 2005
    Sweet Home Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    good counter point. very clear, concise and on point. :rolleyes:

    BTW I have faith in the team, and a little more faith in the current coaching staff than you do. What I don't have faith in is the USSF/MLS/SUM's ability to get out of the way and let them do their job.
     
  24. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Good post.

    But IMO its more of a 'trust' issue between the players. Often times the guys on the wings, be it our wingers, holden when he was there, bradley when he slots himself there on runs, Donovan, Bornstein, demerit sometimes, all would have options to pass it close to someone who would be a perfect soft pass 'out' for them. Instead they will clear it or look for an impossible long pass to someone who has 2-3 guys on them.

    Its trust in others abilities on the ball which these guys dont have in eachother... or it seems like it from reading their decisions on the field. How to improve that? I have ideas, and things i've read and heard coaches in latin america do (thats all I have, its not cause I think south america is best lol), but really its dissecting it to much lol.

    Our guys just need a coach to bring out trust among each other, depend on each other more, trust each other, and get that out of their head about 'clear it cause that pass is too dangerous', talking about close soft passes in small areas to players in a 'triangle' format.

    We don't see much triangulation on our NT, which is the foundation for on the ground soccer, which is basic stuff you teach at the youth level. (our guys have it in them, its up to the coach to emphasize it, and have faith in them, not to have them clear it anytime they feel in danger)
     
  25. Non-dairy Creamer

    Feb 28, 2007
    after your 3 word response that's amazingly hypocritical...
     

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