Actually del Bosque had withdrawn Villa to the left hand side to play against their rightback for that half because no doubt in pre match preperation he saw a weakness. If we had a coach who had a definite tactical plan(s), picked better players who were available and played players in their right positions then it is quite conceivable given the talent available to us we'd hae progressed further. The current 'coach' is a millstone round the team's neck and I expect very little of the team while he remains in charge. He won't listen to advice as only he knows what is right and he is petulant and childish and prone to making emotional decisions and allowing petty jealousies to interfere with the decision making process. Tell me a coach who takes off a rightback replaces him with a central midfielder and then plays that central midfielder on the left wing...... That just about encapsulates his coaching abilities. Ask those who followed the Mandiyu escapades and those of Racing de Avelleneda. It's a crime that he may be allowed to continue. Player careers are finite and here we are frittering them away. Does that not make you sad, angry , disappointed ? Shall we just throw our hands up in the air and say what will be will be ? In that case we are doomed to failure over and over again.
Aren't you stereotyping a bit? I haven't seen such blunt assertions here, possibly only as reactions to the idea that Diego was a great coach because he made more points than others (who cares!!!). I am far from a Diego hater. I worship the guy as a football legend, and I really like him as a person, his love for his daughters, his availability, his rebellious attitude, etc... I must even say that I enjoyed seeing him as the coach for this WC, and was very positively surprised by his achievement. But this doesn't blind me to the fact that the team clearly underperformed, and this was clearly because of bad tactics on his side, at least in the Germany game, which is where the serious things started. And I love our NT too much to be looking forward to other such humiliating games in the future. That's why I'm bitching and would like the AFA to choose a real coach with experience, just like over 80% of the people in Argentina. But if Diego is appointed, I'll support him and hope that he can improve his tactics in the short time that remains before CA.
I'll make it clear, I never say Diego is a good coach, I'm just saying along with few others that Diego also managed to reached QF just like in 98 & 06 and got eliminated. I want him to be replace with better coach but until they could fix that "other" problem, prepare for another disapointment... unless Einstein equavalent exist it football world and coaching Argentina.
The point is that with the talent at our disposal we should never have been in the position to have to worry about being eliminated. Put our finishing aside and you still have the holes in midfield and defense which Diego never addressed. It's not an accomplishment to get out of the group in as much as it is a failure to have to rely on results in the third game to progress. I've asked you and other posters this question over and over with no answer; in what way did this team perform better? Avoid the points argument unless you are going to say that Italy played better than anyone else in 2006. What level of performance are you speaking of? I saw numbers of players played out of position, I saw a team actually try to play with one dedicated midfielder, I saw the worlds best player reduced to CM. I saw a formation scrapped and not once a consistent one to replace it, I saw an ungodly number of players called up when we only needed to focus on parts of the puzzle. Only one team will win the WC so put it off to the side and actually focus on those things you take away that you could build off of. All we're going to see from Diego is yet another visit to the drawing board. I'll ask yet again, what exactly are all those "good" things that Diego did for this team and what were some of those "good calls" he should get credit for? Was it revolutionizing football by only playing with one midfielder in the WC? You still haven't once backed up the assertion that Diego had a better World Cup than anyone since 1990. Not for nothing but how do you see what Diego has done to this team as being better than El Coco winning to Copa's? This will mark most likely the fifth time I've asked this but in what way did this team perform better? Look at the actual style of play, the foundation he built (or in his case tore down). Even the stats from the previous World Cups do nothing to back up why Diego should be in this job. Wasn't the point of bringing in a new coach after Basile to improve this team? Did anyone actually think Diego was going to do that? If anything he's reduced the entire program to a pile of scrap. In regards to Pekerman, the reason he's been brought up so much is due to his tenure being the closest to compare two WC performances.
That's an extremely negative and unduly pessimistic opinion. The franchises will be necessary to provide the promising domestic players with a profession and income and by concentrating the best of the domestic players (with funding ensuring the best players do not compete abroad) with that intermediate level of competition to get them accustomed to Test rugby demands as in the other SANZAR countries whilst not getting beaten out of sight especially away from home. And the financial guarantees of the IRB are dependent on transparency within UAR's practices. If the oldest union of URBA decides to hinder things they are doing no one any favours . I brought up the example of reform because it was player led after years of misrule and misappropiation of income that had come in on the backs of players and insisting on amateurism at a time when the other major unions were going professional. Once again CONMEBOL and FIFA have no direct interest in who runs the AFA only if Kirchner decided she wanted to assume direct control god forbid and not by proxy. The change has to come from pressure applied by fans, players and club presidents to ensure the mafioso is removed or we can keep waiting for natural causes to take their effect and goodness knows how long that will be only to see his son take the post. A real meritocracy that. As for losing the QF. Yes a loss is a loss. But it's one thing to be lose to a moment of outrageous skill as in 1998 or penalties in 2006 in my mind anyway than send out a team bereft of it's best players, no semblance of a plan and get completely outplayed and humiliated aside from twenty minutes at the start of the second half which is a tribute in itself to the abilities of the players and their skill.
This is correct - just goes to show you how far talent alone can take a team. menacing teams such as germany played the world cup with strategy and organization on the pitch. the argentina team we watched from 2005 - 2008 had that organization in the midfield and there has yet to be a recovery from that game plan. going forward players like pastore are going to have to find that fluidity again in order for argentina to play with some sort of plan as Abiceleste2010 speaks about. but since there are only so many friendlies between now and 2011 copa america - they are going to have to throw players like pastore into the fire quickly. argentina doesn't have the benefit that germany had where 7 players come from one of their top club teams (bayern munich) or spain has with barcelona, so argentina needs players like pastore to get as many minutes as possible whenever the NT plays. and you gotta hope that he's lucky enough to be healthy otherwise grandpa veron will play his 50 minutes be gassed...
I wonder how many times he will have to fail before everyone can simply admit he is a terrible coach. Just because he got a lucky world cup does not make him equal to our previous coaches. He had the easiest group in a tournament where almost all of the soccer superpowers were underachieving and weaker than ever before. And still he got thrashed 4-0 in the QF. I bet our other teams would have killed for an easy path like this and not been embarassed like that. He had no plan or tactics, his team got where it was based on luck and individual skill. That is all. I guarantee he will fail in the Copa and probably struggle through qualification especially since all of the other teams seem to be getting better.
You can't say that he had no plan or tactic. That's completely disingenuous of you. You weren't in the dressing room nor were you at the trainings. You can of course say that his tactics failed. That would be more sincere, otherwise you just sound like a Diego hater, that simply base their criticism on their displeasure of the man.
I am a Diego the coach hater, however I will always think of him as the greatest player. And I do sincerely believe he had no real tactic or game plan, and it was more along the line of "go out there and do your best" except probably a lot more heartfelt and inspirational, which just isn't enough to win.
Now you are being more honest, with me, yourself and the boards. So you are basing your criticism on your displeasure for Diego and not his plan or tactics. You aren't being objective. If we are going to compare Diego vs Passarella and Pekerman, we need to have a basis of comparison. All three reached the QF's so on that aspect you can say that they are even. There are other ways to compare, I picked the points achieved because it's the only other true and sincere way to compare teams and DT's considering that points are used to define championships.
So evidently IRB doesn't know what they're doing, also they said the same thing about franchises when they went that way with LNV... CONMEBOL and FIFA, if they cared could take action, but they don't. The fans can complain all what they want, but many these days don't think, they just copy/paste the speech of somebody else, but they don't know why Grondona should be removed nor to do what and i think it's seen even on this forum, the players don't care because they have the FAA, which doesn't exist in all the countries, and the club presidents aren't a constant thing, today it's one tomorrow it's going to be somebody else, ultimately things like the new TV contract was favorable for the clubs, which in fact was pushed by the clubs too. Also regarding this meeting with Chavez on his TV program, well let's take into consideration something, since the elimination he hasn't spoken to the media again, may he take this chance with no argentine journalists to meddle and speak his head out?
Being away for a week and it appears I have missed a ton of stuff. Like I said a couple weeks back I would not be shocked if Diego would be around for 2014 and it appears AFA have gave him a extension, all Diego has to do is agree upon it. I have to give a long and dreaded sigh to this. We all love Diego and we have turned to the side for many things he has done. Should we give Diego another chance? I do not think we should. Diego is not a person to be believed as a coach. He said Carrizo was his top GK then walks away from that. He says Veron was his Xavi and barely plays Veron. How did he continue to play Micho? How is this possible, why did he even call up Bolatti when he barely played for Fiorentina and leaves out Banega who had a solid season for Valencia. I was the 1st to say, lets stop the bitching and crying and move on with the team we have. Diego has also says there is a cycle for WC's and players. That SHOULD mean, we will no longer see Heinze,Micho,Veron and the rest of the players that will not be around for 2014.That time has come and gone, lets see what Diego does when he has to pick the players for the friendlies vs Ireland and Spain. Is he going to be the same fool that calls that same defense core, leaves out a proper midfield, and only cares about pushing forward with the 3 attackers . I just do not get how people can really defend Diego or want to give him a second chance, I get the AFA but the fans? It is as if Diego is wearing a bulletproof vest and no matter what he does to our team he gets a pass.
I have a displeasure for him as a coach, with that are his non existent plans and tactics. And I have reason for that, all of my points are fair points of what he actually did. Facts are not objective. I am not making things up or trying to stretch a small thing into a large thing. He did get demolished 4-0 against Germany on neutral ground at the World Cup. He did not have a midfield that could supply the forwards or help defend. He played Messi in the wrong position, he played Otamendi in the wrong position, he played Di Maria and Maxi in the wrong position by having 3 forwards. He pulled out a defender and put Pastore in the wrong position. He changed nothing from the Mexico game to the Germany game when it was clear we didn't play that great and our midfield was weak. He didn't play Pastore more often after it was clear from his 10 minutes in the Greece game that he was far better than Veron or Maxi. He lost against Boliva 6-1, lost against Brazil 3-1 at home. He ignored Zanetti, Cambiasso, and Banega, while managing to piss off our best midfielder for the time. He picked Garce. These are all things that happened, facts, not objective. He failed with the greatest players and the greatest player in the world of this cup. Not only did he fail, but he has nobody to blame but himself. There was no unfair refereeing, no injuries, no lucky goals or goals taken away. Nothing at all, he just lost all on his own with the best players in the world. It was his decision to play Otamendi as a RB, who was then exploited all game. It was his choice to wait for 70 minutes before making a substitution, and then instead of fixing the RB problem, he just took the RB out. Then you see the 3rd goal where Higuain and Pastore are having to defend in the box. His decisions lost us that game, not something else. His coaching decisions were horrible, he singlehandedly lost the game. With other coaches, you can give them portions of the blame, parts can go to the referee, parts to injuries and bans, parts can go to the other team simply being better, but with him none of that. Germany was not even that good, as Spain showed us where they completely dominated them from start to finish while only getting one goal. This man is simply not a coach and he has yet to learn from his mistakes. Maybe he should think about being a little bit more humble and taking some smaller teams on to coach and listening to others for tactics. Then after that he can come back and coach Argentina, but not the way he has done it. Fine if you want to blind yourself of all of these stated facts that actually happened and try to say he is a better coach than past ones just because of the only thing he did better than previous coaches, which was getting more points. And if you want to continue too ignore reasons why he got more points, and the teams he played against and anything else that contributed to it then thats also fine because it has been explained to you over and over and you just turn away. That still does not mean he is good enough to coach Argentina and he should still have stepped down and not been given such a huge warm welcome.
ROFL!!! I'm sorry NYC_Cosmos.. I know you just care about the team and are keeping our minds open. But that was just damn funny...
Brandon - well written - i've said many of those same things too in piecemeal posts over the past 2 years. i only wish i knew what went on behind the scenes that enabled maradona to make the decisions he made. what a shame the AFA couldn't get the right coach to put together the right team... maradona has a year to redeem himself for the copa america...
god the copa america is going to be such a double edged sword. if we win, not only do we get diego for 3 more years, but it will be one of the driving images of the elections later that year... if only we could some how be rid of the kirchners, maradona, and grondona but still win the copa america i'm seriously getting sick thinking about this. whatever happens, i am going to go to the cpa america and enjoy myself before the ks completely take over the country more than they even have
Again you don't know if his plans are non existant. Actually if you watched the FOX special he outlined his plan for all to see. He changed it through the Cup but there was a plan. Unfortunately for the Germany game it just didn't work out. Diego followed the "equipo que gana no se toca" tactic, which coaches MUCH MORE EXPERIENCED and with MUCH MORE WINS under their belt do ALL THE TIME. I didn't agree with it, I would have put in Veron and Samuel, but he also wasn't wrong in repeating the same team. It didn't work out but it wasn't the wrong thing to do. None of this happened during the World Cup. Pekerman also ignored Zanetti, Pekerman lost againt Ecuador, Pekerman also didn't win the WCQ's. What's your point? The same could be said for Pekerman, he had been coaching those players since they were kids. He even knew Riquelme since he was at Argentino Juniors. He had know Sorin since 1994, Scaloni as well, Cufre the same thing. If anything they had AN EVEN GREATER synchronicity that did this team. Pekerman, had won 3 U20 world cups with this group of men. Yet he managed only the QF. It was quite a disappointment really. Actually it was worse than Diego's loss because no one can say that Pekerman doesn't know about tactics or even how to advance in a Cup type competition. On the other hand, Argentina held the Germans to one point for 70 mins yet weren't able to convert. So then the players have no blame in that? It was COMPLETELY DIEGO'S FAULT, is what you are saying? Apparently you were let down, you were expecting more. I know I was for sure, but we actually weren't even considered to win it. We weren't even considered to get out of the group stage. We were going to go 3 and out. Now considering that scenario, a QF run is quite impressive but of course your blind rage and anger for the man is not allowing you to see this. Read my comments above. So now you are mad because he was given a warm welcome? You are upset because there is a population of people that were actually content with Argentina's showing, considering that we weren't even considered contenders. I mean 20k people came out to greet the team, thats quite impressive wouldn't you say. Would have I preferred a win? Of course, hands down. Did it happen? No, of course not. Did Diego do worse than previous DT's? NO HE DIDN'T. Pekerman deserved to stay, he chose to leave the team high and dry. He abandoned the boat. Diego should at least be given the opportunity to stay, if he wants it. He has earned at least that much. It's been a while since a National team has garnered that much interest in the people.
Fine how about I saw Maradona's plans were flawed and incorrect? You are beating around the bush, tiptoeing around the actual argument. If a 4-0 loss doesn't show you that it wasn't the right thing to do then I do not know of anything in the world that could convince you of it. Why did you bring Pekerman into it, I was trying to talk about Maradona and him alone. I was just listing what Maradona did, not comparing him to anyone. Your feelings towards Pekerman or any other coach should not affect whether Maradona was good or not. Those things happened, and they show how bad of a coach he was. I agree Pekerman's loss was a bigger disappointment, which again has nothing to do with Maradona and I only feel that because he had a much better team and got cheated out of the world cup. Not only this, but your comparisons were completely unfair and irrelevant. You just said Pekerman didn't win QF either, ok so now anything but 1st place is equal? But then you keep saying Diego is better than Pekerman because in the World Cup Diego got 5th place and Pekerman did not? So which is it, stop changing your argument to back up a point. You try to bring him in and use the very few things he did wrong to try to make Maradona look better, without addressing the fact that a lot of what went wrong was completely out of his control, while as I said before what went wrong with Maradona was his own fault. I'm sorry I give up on you, you will never accept him as a bad coach, I can only imagine the excuses when we lose miserably in the Copa or when we do horribly in qualifiers.
You don't have to convince me of anything, I know what I saw, but what I'm getting at is that you don't see past your hatred for Diego. You can be objective enough to realize that he was the only other Argentine team to win 4 straight HAPPENED IN 1930?!?!?!??!?!? Are you kidding me? Please man, open your eyes. Pekerman was chosen because he was he most recent DT of the seleccion. But you are right, let's put Diego up against ALL THE COACHES since the beginning of the World Cup. No one has been able to win 4 straight, not even Menotti or Bilardo. This doesn't mean that Diego is a better coach than either of those two but it does mean that he is more capable than you imagine him to be. The point has never changed, scroll back and you will see. Really? So by the very same token, Diego should have been able to control what Pekerman could not? Look who is changing the playing field and moving the goalposts. lol. Just stop right now, while you still can! lol Pekerman taking out Riquelme and giving up possession to Germany, somehow mysteriously wasn't his fault? Let me ask you something? Was it Diego's fault? See the problem is that you want me to see him as a bad coach while I'm only asking you to look at the data OBJECTIVELY. When you see the difference you will finally get the point of all my posts.