USA vs Mexico - The ongoing, never-ending battle of Pride, National Teams, and Posters. Part 1

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

When it comes to players, lets compare market value.

Top 11 Mexican players with national team experience:


Andrés Guardado
Deportivo de La Coruña Mittelfeld 23 1,69 left 12.000.000 € U1st Sports
Rafael Márquez
FC Barcelona Abwehr 31 1,82 right 9.000.000 € Gestifute
Guillermo Ochoa
CF América Torwart 25 1,83 right 8.000.000 €
Javier Hernández
Manchester United Sturm 22 1,75 both 6.000.000 €
Giovani dos Santos
Tottenham Hotspur Mittelfeld 21 1,74 both 5.500.000 € Gestifute
Carlos Vela
FC Arsenal Sturm 21 1,74 left 5.000.000 € Gestifute
Carlos Salcido
PSV Eindhoven Abwehr 30 1,75 right 4.500.000 € James Grant Sports Management
Héctor Moreno
AZ Alkmaar Abwehr 22 1,82 left 4.000.000 € JB Sports2Business
Francisco Rodríguez
PSV Eindhoven Abwehr 28 1,91 left 3.500.000 €
Pablo Barrera
West Ham United Sturm 23 1,75 both 3.500.000 €
Guillermo Franco
Unbekannt Sturm 33 1,82 right 3.500.000 €

Top 11 US players with national team experience:

Tim Howard
FC Everton Torwart 31 1,91 9.500.000 € WMG Management (SFX Sports)
Clint Dempsey
FC Fulham Mittelfeld 27 1,86 both 7.000.000 € James Grant Sports Management
Michael Bradley
Borussia Mönchengladbach Mittelfeld 22 1,86 right 5.000.000 € PM
Oguchi Onyewu
AC Mailand Abwehr 28 1,95 right 5.000.000 € James Grant Sports Management
Carlos Bocanegra
FC Stade Rennes Abwehr 31 1,83 left 3.300.000 € James Grant Sports Management
Landon Donovan
Los Angeles Galaxy Mittelfeld 28 1,73 right 3.000.000 € Richard Motzkin
Jozy Altidore
FC Villarreal Sturm 20 1,85 right 3.000.000 € Richard Motzkin
Maurice Edu
Glasgow Rangers Mittelfeld 24 1,83 right 2.000.000 € KICK & RUN
José Francisco Torres
CF Pachuca Mittelfeld 22 1,68 left 2.000.000 € soccertrust
Jonathan Spector
West Ham United Abwehr 24 1,82 both 2.000.000 € SK Soccer Tours
Jay DeMerit
FC Watford Abwehr 30 1,80 right 2.000.000 €

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TOTAL WORTH OF TOP 11 MEXICAN PLAYERS = 64.500.000 €
TOTAL WORTH OF TOP 11 US PLAYERS = 43.800.00 €

AVERAGE WORTH OF TOP 11 MEXICAN PLAYERS = 5.863.636 €
AVERAGE WORTH OF TOP 11 US PLAYERS = 3.981.818 €

AVERAGE AGE OF TOP 11 MEXICAN PLAYERS = 25
AVERAGE AGE OF TOP 11 US PLAYERS = 26

TOTAL WORTH OF TOP 11 MEXICAN PLAYERS UNDER 25 = 36.000.000 €
TOTAL WORTH OF TOP 11 US PLAYERS UNDER 25 = 14.000.000 €

AVERAGE WORTH OF TOP 11 MEXICAN PLAYERS UNDER 25 = 6.000.000 €
AVERAGE WORTH OF TOP 11 US PLAYERS UNDER 25 = 2.800.000 €

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Values taken from this website : http://www.transfermarkt.de/en/
Feel free to check the numbers, in case i made a mistake.

Any questions?

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

LOL at the bolded. The young Mexican players are massively overrated except for Guardado and Moreno. Moreno should be higher than all of them except Guardado.

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

We can even go younger,

TOTAL WORTH OF TOP 20 MEXICAN PLAYERS 23 and Under = 64.100.00 €
TOTAL WORTH OF TOP 20 US PLAYERS UNDER 23 and Under = 18.550.00 €

AVERAGE WORTH OF TOP 20 MEXICAN PLAYERS 23 and Under = 3.205.000 €
AVERAGE WORTH OF TOP 20 US PLAYERS PLAYERS 23 and Under = 927.500 €

On average a top 20 Mexican player 23 or under is worth more than 3 times a top 20 US player 23 or under.

Anyone can posts list of hundreds of players, but when value has to be quantified, the difference is absolutely clear.

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

No shit Sherlock, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to discover that the Mexican Primera is rated higher by most people than MLS. But congratulations on the discovery.

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

This is individual player market value and while a player starting in a top Mexican team will probably be valued higher than a player starting at a top MLS team, its because they are playing at a higher level with better talent and have therefore worth more because they are considered to be better.

But fine,

WORTH OF TOP 7 MEXICAN PLAYERS PLAYING IN EUROPE 23 and UNDER = 38.500.000 €
WORTH OF TOP 7 US PLAYERS PLAYING IN EUROPE 23 AND UNDER = 11.650.000 €

AVERAGE WORTH OF TOP 7 MEXICAN PLAYERS PLAYING IN EUROPE 23 and UNDER = 5.500.000 €
AVERAGE WORTH OF TOP 7 US PLAYERS PLAYING IN EUROPE 23 AND UNDER = 1.664.286 €

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

I have to admit it is an original way of avoiding the subject, at least he isn't looking at 76 years ago but not 80.

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

Couple things

The MLS does not know how to negotiate.
The numbers you provided need to be clearly updated( i'll give you that Mexican players will be slightly higher based on a clear international bias)
and also having those top paid players still isn't making you a better team than us sorry sport

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

You are right (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/brad-friedel/profil/spieler_3476.html), I used national experience as a filter for my search, which might actually mean that it filters players that are currently active with the national team. It is strange that they didn´t include him.

Right, this is the market value of individual players and does not mean that one team is better than another. Hull City can beat Chelsea, but that does not mean that Chelsea has worse talent and market value is a way to demonstrate this is not the case.This is a way to quanitify the value of individual talent and use it as a comparison. Market value changes but the gap in value between the two teams in pretty substantial, ESPECIALLY AT A YOUTH LEVEL.

Doing this market analysis shows two things.

1. Mexico currently has more valuable talent than the US
2. Mexico currently has more valuable youth talent than the US

Both by substantial margins.

The question should now be: Who is making better use of their value? I think that this answer is simple, its the US. However, this does not mean that the US is better, just that they are able to get more out of the players they have.

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

Which in a nutshell means all that information is pretty useless in this thread. Look at the point of the thread and wonder what it means when you have decided that a bunch of talking points doesn't address the thread.

Higher payed players only have an impact on which team is better if the better team always makes more money, correct? Did the team that won the World Cup have the highest paid players in the world? No. So the fact that the Mexican players get paid more money means they get paid more money, but really has no bearing on which of the two teams are ahead in comparison.

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

I think the Market value shows at least some indication of which team has a better youth system, something we have been discussing in here. Mexican youth players are priced higher for a reason.

Chivas is not racist, we are Nationalistic. Theres a huge difference. Would you call Athletic de bilbao racist. We have a kid in our youth team that is named Oliver Silverman (German parents)

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

The thread was started by Elvis Minaya with the following post:

So what was your problem again?

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

And surely transfermarkt.de has valued young Mexican players higher than young American players in the entirety of its existence because Mexico has always had superior club development of young talent. By this measure then Mexican player development is running in place.

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

Racist is about Race, I think that Chivas would have no problem fielding Black or Asian players that were born in Mexico (or in the USA if one of their parents was of Mexican nationality)

El Americano I think that the word you are looking for is Xenophobia which is a strong word to say Nationalist. Kind of like some tea party dudes.

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

Better players mean more money? Mexican players suck compared to players in Europe because they make more money? Correct?

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

First of all, market value is not determined by how much money you make, if anything, it is the other way around. Your whole question is based on a misunderstanding. I never said that US players suck, just that you can make the conclusion that they are not valued as highly as Mexican players. If a European players is valued more than a Mexican player, it most likely means that the European player is better.

If i were you, I would cut my losses.

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

not all players abroad make more money.

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

You are attempting to say market value=skill, which isn't always the case. First we would have to make a correlation between the numbers listed and that player being better...

Every player on the Mexican team listed is better than Landon Donovan, for example. Fair enough. Michael Bradley, who according to many fans only got to play because his dad is the coach, is better than Landon Donovan as well.


Edit: Even if the numbers listed are read wrong you still have to make an concrete association between skill and value. According to your numbers the Mexican players crush the US...but as you've seen that isn't the case. So it seems that the numbers do not correlate to skill either.

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

Solid is right, value is not about the money you make, well if you make leass money you may be worth more for another team, If you make a lot of money (think O. Sanchez a few years back) then you are less valuable to some teams because they can not aford to pay your salary.

A young player making a small salary could be more valuable than a 30+ year old that makes lots of money. Even if the veteran is/was a better player. (not allways the case, many teams sometimes overpay for a has-been).

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

I think LD showed that he was the best Concacaf player this WC, the reason his value is low is because last time he was sold his transfer fee was small, he is also not for sale, so his value is pure especulation by "transfermarket"

http://www.transfermarkt.de/en/landon-donovan/transfers/spieler_68.html

He was sold one time for 1 million Euros. plus he is already 28 so his value will go down going forward. I would think that he may be worth more than the 3 million he is listed but I would not think that many teams would pay more than 5 million for him.

But none of that thakes away that he is the best player in the USA team (maybe Howard) maybe the best in the Galaxy . Yet Altidore is worth 2 times more. (Well he was sold for 6.5 million, but he is now speculated at 3 million)

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

No, according to the numbers, Mexican players are more valuable (and better) than US players. I think this is true. This does not mean (as i have stated previously) that Mexico should crush the US the same way it does not mean that Spain should crush Switzerland. It all comes down to how this talent is being used. However, part of this face to face comparison, as specified in its objective, was to figure out who has the best players.

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

By the way,

the USA team WC 2010 was worth 57,550,000 euros.
http://www.transfermarkt.de/en/vereinigte-staaten/startseite/nationalmannschaft_3505.html

the Mexico team was worth 90,050,000 eu.
http://www.transfermarkt.de/en/mexiko/startseite/nationalmannschaft_6303.html

who wants to guess how much Spain was worth?