USA vs Mexico - The ongoing, never-ending battle of Pride, National Teams, and Posters. Part 1

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

Care to explain how?

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

I'm way more important to my over 35 men's team and have scored more goals and had more assists than any of these guys, does that make me a better player? I get your point, but that's not where you need to start when comparing players.

IMHO, to compare players you have to start with where they spend most of their time and work up from there. When one league is clearly superior to the other, the player who plays in said league gets the advantage. Then factor in the team they play on, whether they start the majority of games, and their individual accomplishments with the team. I honestly think national team appearances are important but they also don't speak to a players overall abilities. Think Pudolski, love the guy and is great for the National side, but doesn't demonstrate the day in and day out elite level skill required to be talked about as a world-class footballer. Or C. Ronaldo who struggles with his national side for a variety of reasons but is arguably brilliant at the club level (aside from the last season team change).

Once you factor all of those things, in my opinion it's tough to argue either of those players are better than Dempsey right now.

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

check.previous.page.

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

coffee, meet monitor

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

When he did come off the bench it was because he was recovering from injury. He was a starter when healthy. Bob Bradley actually spoke to Hodgson and made sure he wasn't playing him too much so he'd be ready for the WC.

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

Guardado has been Depor's MVP since the first year he got there. He led the team to their best standings in years. He's a solid starter and when he's not on the field for them the team suffers. He's also a fan favorite.

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

That's nice, still isn't as much as what Dempsey's done for Fulham.

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

Longest active Fulham player.

Most games played by any active Fulham player.

Most goals scored by any active Fulham player.

Led Fulham in goals scored in 07/08.

Led Fulham in goals scored in 08/09.

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

Just way too many facts for an El Tri fan to comprehend guys. All they need to know is Dempsey's American, Guardado's Mexican, and there's no way the former can be better than the latter.

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

And this is what usually ends up happening when youth talent is compared in this debate.

The question is who has better young talent, the US or Mexico. I listed our young players (under 25) who played at least 90 minutes in the world´s biggest stage and all i asked was for US fans to do the same and after that, it would be easier to make a comparison.

But as you can see, this will not happen because once the stats are put on the table then it will be evident that there is absolutely no argument here for US fans. It is here where either the topic is changed or they start talking about individual Mexican players in order to not have to put their lack of cards on the table.

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

LOL... we played the US at the WC? news to me.

BTW GIO and Vela have won the last two games they played against the US.


and finally, not specifically at you, but I hear a lot of criticism of the list that was introduced by Mexie fans yet I have yet to see a US List of similar players. Surely a team who's youth development is superior to that of Mexico can come up with a list of similar (nay better players), I await such list with anticipation...

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

He was referring to youth players, playing at the youth level. Only two players on that list were youth players, Giovani and Vela(eligible for U23s). If you want to make a list, how about you make one relative to what the guy was actually talking about.

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

At the YOUTH level, the US talent is superior, sorry. You want a list? mull over these. This doesn't include any of the U17s, who beat Mexico 4-1 in their last meeting.


GK
Sean Johnson Chicago Fire
Josh Lambo FC Dallas
Brian Perk Philadelphia Union
Bill Hamid DC United
Samir Badr Porto
Cody Cropper Ipswich Town


DF
Anthony Wallace FC Dallas
Kyle Davies FC Dallas
Jorge Flores Chivas USA
Ike Opara San Jose Earthquakes
Greg Eckhardt VPS Vaasa
Fabian Irigoyen Centro Atlético Fénix
Zachary Herold Toronto FC
Miguel Angel Ponce CD Chivas
Dallas Moore Grimsby Town
Alfredo Morales Hertha BSC
Giuseppe Nazzani AS Figline
Gale Agbossoumonde Sporting Braga
Gregg Garza Sporting Lisbon
Blake Robinson Werder Bremen
Parker Walsh Karlsruher SC

MF
Alex Nimo Real Salt Lake
Gerson Mayen Chivas USA
Michael Stephens Los Angeles Galaxy
Danny Cruz Houston Dynamo
Brek Shea FC Dallas
Dilly Duka Columbus Crew
Cesar Zamora Chivas USA
Blair Gavin Chivas USA
Francisco Navas Houston Dynamo
Amobi Okugo Philadelphia Union
Isaac Acuña Sánchez Club America
Freddy Adu Aris
Bryan Arguez G.D. Estoril Praia
Royal-Dominique Fennell Stuttgarter Kickers
Luis Gil Real Salt Lake
Armando Ochoa SCR Altach
Daniel Williams SC Freiburg
Mikkel Diskerud Stabaek
Jared Jeffrey FSV Mainz
Axel Levry Energie Cottbus
Devann Yao Ipswich Town
Josh Gatt SCR Altach
Michael Hoyos Estudiantes de la Plata
Fabrice-Jean Picault Cagliari
Patrick Otte Middlesbrough
Jordan Patrick Cambridge United
Marcel Ramsey FC Schalke 04
Christian Castaneda Hertha Berlin
Sebastian Lletget West Ham United
Will Packwood Birmingham City
Erik Benjaminsen Stabaek
Lester Dewee Marseille
Bryan Dominguez Miami FC
Alex Molano Dinamo Zagreb
George Pantelic Rad
Moises Orozco unattached
Alex Zahavi Sporting Lisbon

FW
Peri Marosevic FC Dallas
Fuad Ibrahim Toronto FC
Tristan Bowen Los Angeles Galaxy
Andrew Wiedeman FC Dallas
Jozy Altidore Villareal FC
Steven Cabas Miami FC
Juan Agudelo New York Red Bulls
Jack McInerney Philadelphia Union
Matt Luzunaris SK Rapid Wien
Tony Taylor G.D. Estoril Praia
Andrew Wooten FC Kaiserslautern
Timothy Chandler Eintracht Frankfurt
Michael Greenberg Maccabi Petah Tikva
Kenneth Di Vita Jensen Hønefoss BK
Nadav Kariv FC Wohlen
Norberto Ochoa Club Brugge
Ellis McLoughlin unattached
Terrence Boyd Hertha BSC
Bobby Wood 1860 Munich
Adrian Ruelas Santos Laguna
Omar Salgado CD Chivas

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

Incredible no, how in the youth levels the gap is so big, yet when they become full on Pros, Mexico and the Mexican league have produced players with better upside, and are highly regarded, some have already even won championships abroad.

To be more productive... what would be a good way to prove or disprove our US posters point #4 ? So far we have a scoreline that you put up, which was countered by an adverse scoreline for the US and an instant dismissal of said result due to it being the US U4 Z team (just a bit of sarcasm added for emphasis). And then we have this list of relatively young players, most of which went through a form of youth development in the not to distant past but somehow that list is not good for comparing each sides youth.

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

In other US vs Mexico YOUTH news:

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

I don't think there is much of a gap at the "adult" level, but the youth level, there is a bit of a gap, and that team was missing most of our best players, what else was I supposed to say, it was our best youth vs Mexico's? No, because it wasn't.

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

This is the only fact that mexican fans need to read. Record isn't lying The US is the better team.

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

How many of those games were played in Mexico?

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

1) the question is, is there a gap or is there insufficient knowledge of the opponent to preceive that there might be a gap? I recall that before Mexico won their youth WC the US fan base was saying something similar yet we know how that turned out. To me the list you provided is more of a hype list than anything else, and I'm sure Mexico has something similar to it floating around. I mean come on we have US posters sitting here saying Cheech, Juarez, and Barrera are nobodies. Yet I'm expected to believe this list you provided is something more?

2) Regarding the youth result, it just seems that the US fans always handy in order to pick and choose results (I guess some US fans might feel the same).

3) But then again your use of result to try to prove your point surprises me. How can the result of one game trump the result of one tournament? If you are going to say that the US youth system is superior as a result of one game, then why would you object to Mexico fans saying that their youth is superior as a result of one tournament?

This is an excellent post... worth more exploring, except I don't think it supports the notion that there is a huge gap between the US youth setup and that of Mexico.

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

Hence why I'm asking for posters to show me what Dempsey did.

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

How does that prove your point? How many of those kids are playing first team minutes?

Should I just post the U15, U17, U18 and U20 rosters for every FMF club?

Because that's basically what you're doing.

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

True that, not to mention I think we got shorted a win... LOL must be US fans throwing out the GC again... Isn't it nice to just pick and choose the results you like.

 

Re: USA vs Mexico face to face, Who is the giant after the world cup?

How many of those are playing in the first teams of their perspective clubs?

So, you list players from MLS reserve squads trying to prove your youth teams are better than ours, but when we list players from the Mexican first div who have been bought by Premier league clubs to play for the first team they are nobodies?