True. I forgot about Masche. Yes, and Pekerman is completely to blame for that and he got criticized a lot. Diego on the other hand has people bending over backwards to find a million excuses for him and the fact that the team lost badly. Pekerman still quit despite the fact that the team didn't get embarrased like it did this year. Diego is looking to stay no matter what. You're looking at it from a purely statistical point of view. There's more to it than that. And let's not forget that the team got the easiest group stage it's gotten in a long time. That factors into everything.
I thought you wouldn't answer that question. It's a hard reality to face, it's tough for me to admit it, but the truth is we do not have a great record in world cups.
It's not as black and white as you're making it out to be. Do you think this team would have done as well and looked as good in the group stage had they been in the same group as 2002?
Ok, if you want to ignore the difference between the 2006 group of death (of which we came first, playing the subs against Holland) and 2010's Greece, (shadow of) Nigeria and South Korea super-powers, then no point in discussing this further.
well how many DTs had the leading scoring scorer in all of europe and played him as a midfielder? how many also decided to play only one proper midfielder against the best of the tournament at the time? how many left a champions league winning captain at home? how many played a young 22 year old slow center back at right back? how many alienated the best player for the NT? Not even passarella for leaving out redondo and caniggia made as many stupid decisions as maradona. As I said earlier, at least when we lost to Brazil 3-0 in the CA final i felt we lost with the best team we had. THis time, there were at least half a dozen better players who were left out of the squad with out explanation or because of personal issues with Maradona while a number of MUERTOS were in the squad.
We're never going to agree on this and we could spend the rest of our collective lives having this discussion/arguament, so I'll move on and suggest we agree to disagree. ;
Also, Pekerman received (rightly so, in my opinion) plenty of crap for failing to finish off the Germans.
Erhhhh...... I don't know about Lemme, but I think that Mancuso was chosen by Diego himself as "advisor" If you surround yourself with fools as "advisors", then you are also a fool As a "tuerca" friend said: Argentina coached by Maradona is like a Ferrari driven by a 5 years old
Don't get things confused, I'm not saying it was the assistants fault. NO WHERE have I said that but it wasn't the assistants that Diego had as first choice. There is a difference there.
Well said. I'd also like to add that the 6-0 trashing to S&M was most likely due to the country falling apart mid world cup.
Diego's initial pick was Batista and maybe Brown. Grondona messed that up and Diego had to settle for Mancuso and Lemme. Mancuso has been with Diego for a while now and has always been very loyal to him. It was a natural choice for Diego after the Grondona/Batista row. You can't blame Diego for the assistants if he's not allowed to the people he wants.
Diego wanted Ruggeri and that didn't happen. He got Bilardo, Mancuso and Lemme. Got into a fight with Bilardo and casted him aside. Something both you and I thought were smoke screens to draw attention from what was really happening. But as it turned out, wasn't a smoke screen at all. Diego never wanted Batista, it was the other way around remember? Batista wanted the main position and after he was passed on it, he wanted to become Diego's assistant. Diego then got into a fight with him and basically called Batista a traitor...
To me it is this that further reinforces that Diego is solely motivated by his ego. What other man would take a national team DT job if not allowed to bring his own staff? Whomever is placed with Diego will respect him for the player he was and probably the good person he is (drug abuse aside) but they'll know deep down inside that Diego will never have their coaching knowledge. It's a recipe' for disaster.
Just take a look at Masche's face after the whistle blows. Says it all. A lion of a player being coached by a coterie of fools. A player who deserves to lift the World Cup. Leo needs to grow up as well. At this rate he'll never be a leader instead relying on alternate father figures.
Not unsurprising when you consider the clowns who are supposedly in charge of the game in Argentina. Compared to other associations they are not even fourth rate. The ultimate fault lies with one man Grondona for appointing Maradona in the first place. Someone who had no coaching experience. People will say but van Basten and Divermann had none. But they had experienced assistants and listened to their advice indeed Loew basically ran the German squad with Herr Diver as the cheerleader. Diego won't listen to anyone. But who cares about the past. Sweep it under the carpet and let's prepare properly for 2014 with a proper coach, new personell and give ourselves the best chance of winning it.
I am ok if he stays on as he has done neither better nor worse than Pekerman or Pasarella, and I am still holding out hope on him improving, but I think he should get more experience managing a team before he returns. I feel international management is a job for older managers, and if we have good coaching options ready to take over like Cuper, Bianchi, or even Pekerman, he should go. I don't understand what this business about "He didn't get the assistants he wanted"...We got destroyed by Germany because he didn't get his ideal assistants!?!?! That explains why we couldn't keep possession in midfield.
But that is the point ... Loyalty is very important, but can't be your sole criteria to choose your staff. As far as I know, Mancuso, Enrique, et all, were chosen basically because they were loyal, and coaching knowledge and experience took a back seat. In other words: another emotional decision by Diego... Same as when he called Ortega (OK, that was a very nice gesture, and thanks heaven that was just a friendly) or when he called Garce just because he dreamed himself winning the WC with Garce by his side (so the story goes ).... Diego's decision are based on emotions, not on critical thinking.
You are confusing two things. We didn't lose against Germany because of Mancuso or Enrique. We lost because certain players didn't show up, planning on the part of the DT and that early first goal. But we all have to recognize that if you are driving a Ferrari F50 and you don't have the proper Crew Chief, you aren't going to get too far in the race.
Yes that's how it played out but before Batista put his foot in his mouth and was looking for the job, Diego wanted him as his main assistant.
It's hard for Otamendi, Maxi, and Di Maria to show up when they play out of position. Which then makes it hard for Masch to play his position, being the only actual central midfield, which then makes it hard for the forwards to play with no service from the midfield. And then specifically Messi cannot do anything because he has to drop deep to get the ball and start every play. And then our defense has a hard time because of a weak midfield and nonexistant right back, which they exploited all game. This all stems back to Maradona's decisions.
Look, I admire NYC_COSMOS for his patriotism and positive perspective. But come back to reality man. Maradona is no good as coach. Director Tecnico - it means someone who can direct technical aspects of the game! Who puts Messi in that position? Fine, we tried it - it didn't work. We are Argentines, we are always negative and pessimistic... for good reason. Let me unload here for a minute. I don't care if you are Peronista/Radical - sh!ts going downhill... Some things Kirchner did right, like insulating Argentina from the IMF ********ers and not allowing them to dictate our economy. But other crap is completely unacceptable... buying the TV rights? pan y circo! Cooking the inflation numbers? C'mon Andres man.. this is a joke... how can you defend this? There is a lack of trust, and cronyism. Everyone I know has a job in the family business (ie farm/hotel/supplies/realestate/law firm). Job interviews? what Job interviews? The last of our educated are leaving in droves (since the 1970s.. we are on our last gasp)... anyone that could get a european passport (had spanish grandma, or italian grandpa) has left.. the others went to Canada to make children that don't even speak spanish (see aerez)... a few got lucky and went to Miami/Texas to sell cars, start restaurants. The middle class is holding on with one remaining arm - another crash and we are done! Then it's Banana Republic time for us (we are 75% there already..) This is just another chapter in the book of the inevitable decline into a Banana Republic we've been heading into since the 70's. We have no novel ideas and no solutions. In two more generations we will be nothing. The NT is just a reflection of that. We are finished. It's over. Open the gates, let the Bolivians and Guaranis have it all back... I don't care. Come Copa America, we are gonna see that ********er Robinho lifting the cup.
At this rate in a decade I can see the Chilean NT becoming a tougher opposition than Argentina. And I can't imagine how anyone could possibly fix the mafia within AFA and create an organized and transparent organization. Maybe everything is broken beyond amend and that goes for a society which so ardently praises failure.