Hey all. There have been several discussions about the end of the Ghana - Uruguay game. Most have been focusing on the handball. But I have a question about the events preceding it, specifically, a potential offside violation by Ghana. I think they were offside, but a lot of others seem to disagree. It seems there is a disconnect between what many believe the offside rule says and what it does. I figured I'd come to some refs for clarification. Here is a screen shot. I'll also post a video. Ok, I already realize I was mistaken in marking the guy at the top offside, because he didn't influence play until many touches later. But this is what happened. You can see the header at the bottom left. At the time of the header, Appiah, the Ghana player in front of the keeper is clearly in an offside position. But he's not the first to play the ball. The ball rebounds off the keeper before he makes a touch. And by this time he has moved to an onside position. However, the laws of the game state that: “gaining an advantage by being in that position” means playing a ball that rebounds to him off a goalpost or the crossbar having been in an offside position or playing a ball that rebounds to him off an opponent having been in an offside position So, doesn't that mean that because he was offside when the ball was originally played before it rebounded off the keeper then he is in violation? It seems that it is clearly spelled out in this illustration from the laws: Some people don't seem to be reading it this way and say that I am wrong. Could you guys clear this up? I have a feeling it's to do with awkward phrasing of the laws including weird use of tenses. And the video: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9uMjPRB6FE"]YouTube- URUGUAY vs. GHANA - Suarez Blocks Winning Goal![/ame] The best angle starts at around :33
When the keeper comes out to punch the ball clear, he gets a touch on it (this presumably does not reset offside position) but it is headed over to Appiah by a Ghanaian player (this does reset offside position). While it is extremely close, Appiah was probably onside at the time of this touch, and is now free to play the ball.
Oh, I didn't notice the header by the Ghanaian player. Thanks, I'll take another look. Hmm... I'm not sure there's a header there, but it's really hard to tell. At least that explains what others may have been seeing.
We had a brief discussion of this in another thread: https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1478497&page=5 I wasn't fully convinced that #10 was offside until I saw the following video which is done in super slo-mo. It clearly shows that the player from Ghana does head the ball prior to the GK touching it, and at that time #10 is definitely in an offside position, if only by a foot or so. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7wcInhtW48&feature=related"]YouTube- Uruguay Ghana Ghana Offside before Handball[/ame]
Looked offside to me in the live viewing. Still looks that way to me in subsequent viewings, including the video found by MrRC. It's still not clear to me whether the Ghana player touched the ball during the play with the goalie, but it makes the most sense given the direction the ball went that he did. And, if he didn't, then it's an even easier call for the offside from the deflection. But, resetting at that time, Applah is in an offside position. He then comes back to the ball to take the shot, and there would be a lot more analysis of this play had the shot gone in as opposed to deflecting to set up the header that then led to the "save" that is causing many to want to revisit and change the rules.
He was offside. If a goal was scored, it would just be another in a long list of goals scored following an uncalled offside. Do you really want video review, and deny soccer one of the most fascinating and emotional sequences in World Cup history? What are you, some kind of moron? Who cares of Luis Suarez won't get to play in a World Cup semi-final, because of a missed offside? The missed offside actually just adds to the mystique of the play. It's terrific. I love it!
Given that at real time speed, this offside scenario was so close that the AR would have been justified in calling it either way. And given that how close the offside really is (it's the torso of the players that counts iirc) I'm pleased he didn't flag this play offside since so often, ARs flag offside even when the players are even. This is not as clear cut as many want to portray it. Keep in mind the AR doesn't get to slow mo it on the bulletin boards after the game and make his mind up. I think the only reason this offside scenario is even being talked ad nauseum about is that it lead to the incident that saved Uruguay's cup chances and that many want to absolve Uruguay of any guilt in their actions. Uruguay won, what's done is done.
Immaterial. The call was either correct or incorrect. The fact that it was so close and might not have been overturned on video review is material, however, as would be the case that despite apparent obvious video proof, Appiah actually was onside. That was the old rule-of-thumb. The new rule is arms don't count, everything else does count. True. But it is the future that is being debated.
I never meant to imply- nor should it have ever considered - that arms were counted. Just the torso, the limbs. The OP is discussing offside in the game in question. Purely asking for help with the offside law of the game. Noone in this thread is debating the future of replay in soccer nor future rule changes that I can tell. I could have sworn we were only discussing a game in the past. We can (and do) have fun discussing how accurate the calls are. It's not immaterial to try and judge the call from the perspective of a noble referee who doesn't have the benefit of technology and time to second guess his decision. The fact that the video has to be super slow mo'd to determine that the guy was offside by a nipple just shows how close this call is. What's next? A comparison of chest measurements between players to best judge center mass of a potential offside candidate in regards to the center mass of the 2ndtoLast defender? That would be the most accurate way to judge these situations afterall in my opinion, taking into account the relative size differentials of the players involved.
You are not correct. That used to be the way that offside was judged, but FIFA changed it in 2005 to the following: LAW 11 – OFFSIDE Decisions of the International F.A. Board Decision 1 In the definition of offside position, “nearer to his opponents’ goal line” means that any part of his head, body or feet is nearer to his opponents’ goal line than both the ball and the second last opponent. The arms are not included in this definition.
Really? ... I just wanted clarification on the play... Exactly, thank you. I just wanted to know what the proper call would have been and whether or not Ghana was offside. ...
Dave, I thought that PV was just making a sarcastic rant in general and that it wasn't directed at anyone in particular.
It was sarcasm directed at blech's comment that the offside aspect of the play would only be looked at more closely if a goal had been scored, as if the actual effects of the non-offside call weren't important enough. The brunt of the sarcasm was directed at FIFA, because this is exactly the type of memorable play that they would prefer to have in lieu of tedious video reviews.
Ah well, then, perhaps you should have used the sarcastic font: http://web.archive.org/web/20060205201048/www.glennmcanally.com/sarcastic/ unfornuately it looks like that site is MIA, the above is cached or sarcastic orange http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/Sarcasm_mark Sorry, for the misunderstanding.
So now you're calling me a moron??? I'll take that and the rest as the sarcasm that you claim, and move on.