This team has enough, if lucky, to equal the 2002 team's quarter final appearance and even more. My point is this: That is what we should expect. After all the money and time spent; after all the hours spent finding and developing talent, it is not extraordinary to expect the USMT team to reach the quarter finals of the WC. Even the semi-finals, with an almost perfect run, should seem possible. Ghana is a formidable opponent. More raw talent, and the best tactics of any African team. They also have, in a sense, the home pitch advantage. But, if the back line holds up, and two or three US players have remarkable games, the result could go our way. Being satisfied with the Round of 16 will not cut it. We should be, and maybe are better than that. That should be our expectation each and every WC until we reach the finals, and win. What did General Paton say? "Americans love a winner. Americans hate to lose."
Can you quantify this money and time? Get rid of your paragraph that starts with "my point is" and your second to last paragraph and you maybe have a good post (thread starting worthy? I'm not sure.).
It's not so much about the resources and time etc. For me it's more about the fact that this is a generation, perhaps not golden, but sufficiently bronzed with our greatest player ever (Donovan) in his prime, OFF Euro soil and with as favorable of a draw as we will likely ever receive. Ghana in R16 and South Korea/Uruguay in the quarters (knock on wood) is all you can ask for at the World Cup. Don't get me wrong, we earned it by winning our god forsaken group, but this is about opportunity. We have our whole country's attention and we have winnable games at hand. It's not so much that we should be expecting to make the semis everytime because of this performance but that we should not be satisfied witht he round of 16 going out to Ghana this time around. We've got an amazing chance to make a deep run and if we're expecting anything it's that our talented-yet-plucky squad makes the most of it.
Round of 16 should be the MINIMUM expectation It is greedy of me, and if Ghana blows us out 6-0 in the match, I'd welcome every last bag boy on this team home as heroes. However, the US has steadily improved, and our team has proved itsefl over and over, become more consistent, gone from credible losses, to close games to winning matches, even against the big boys. Let's face it, it would not long be a fluke for us to beat even Brazil or Spain anymore. In other words, we have come a long way, and I think this team deserves to be in the final 8 for sure, and given the breaks, a semi final would be very good. I would not rule out final appearance. Consider this. We need to win two matches at roughly even odds, which I am certain we can do. Then a very good match, just one, against a top flight team, and we will be facing Argentina in the final. What amazes me is while this does not seem likely, it no longer rings insanely impossible. A contender. This team is a legitimate contender, albeit quite the darkhorse. So, I think advancement out of the group should be the dividing line between a successful cup and an unsuccessful cup for the US going forward. Quarters would qualify as a good cup, and a truly excellent run is the semis. The world is getting flatter in football terms and we are part of it. So, I will be disappointed if we aren't in the semis. I don't put the odds over 40% of that happening, but still, that's pretty good odds, frankly. Damn it, give these guys a window that big, and they'll find a way through. t'ain't rational, McGee, but I just feel it in my bones.
In the knockout rounds it all comes down to luck, we are not completely overmatched against Ghana and we've got a good chance to win the game, I'll take it. We still have defensive problems that could pop up anytime and kill the team. Have to be somewhat realistic.
Maybe I don't understand the international game well enough, but why does there seem to be a widespread belief that Ghana has the superior talent? Especially without Essien. If anything I would say the US has the slight edge in talent--and definitely showed more heart, cohesion and finishing skill than Ghana in the group stage. Of course, the two Ghana games I saw were their draw against a 10-man Australia, and their unimpressive loss to Germany. Were they really that amazing against Serbia? Anyway, we've had our troubles on the back line, so I guess they have things to feel confident about.
Im Uruguayan, so if we face in the Round of 16, its going to be tough for me. Would be rooting for Uruguay 100%, but its tough to wish something bad for the U.S. Hopefully both teams win their games, and then...
"Expect" is a bit of a strong word. Outside of maybe Brazil, Germany, Argentina, and Italy, I don't think ANY country expects to make it to the quarters and beyond. Does that mean we have to be satisfied with the round of 16? Hell no. We should hope for more, but to label anything less than being in the top 8 countries in the world a failure is ridiculous.
I generally agree - I've stated as much in other posts. It's difficult to compare tournaments given not only the differences in your team from tourney to tourney but also your luck of the draw - who you end up facing. With that said, we had a favorable group draw and we are facing a side we should have a better chance of beating than if we were facing Germany or Argentina, for example (of course, that means little in terms of what will actually happen). I've noticed a lot of posters holding this team in what seems to me a certain special regard that they don't seem to pay to the 2002 crew. I know we're all excited to advance - on top of our group, no less - but I think we still have to wait and see with this group (obvious sounding, I know, given we're still playing). That 2002 team set the bar for US Soccer, IMO - that is if World Cup performance is your most important factor/metric of success. It'll be interesting to see when US soccer adapts the standard other national sides hold for their coach - qualifying and World Cup performance above all else. The Confed was great for exposure in this country and Gold Cups are nice - but we were qualifying and competing for Gold Cups under Arena, as well. People like to talk about what Bradley has done (e.g., Confed, overall record, etc) which is great and not to be overlooked/undervalued but, for at least me, I want to see how we perform when it matters most. I would have this standard for any coach so please don't confuse this with thinly veiled Bradley bashing. It's just that if this team is at least as well coached as the 2002 side and is deeper with richer talent, shouldn't we expect them - with a pretty good draw - to get far? I'd love to see it happen. Sorry for the length.
Personally? No. I saw most of all 3 games and to me they did not look all that great. Both and only goals came of the PK spot. Held to a draw against a 10 man SoccerRoo team??? Really? Not to mention I thought the PK called for them against Serbia was borderline bogus. I will agree that we have the better talent from top to bottom and would probably say through our first 15-16 players even. You can only play up to 14 in a single game. With that said, it is the knockout stage and anything and everything can happen. I truly believe that even though we have had our close calls against 2 average teams at best, this is going to be something special and we will replicate our Confed Cup run.
Can I quantify the time and money? I am not an accountant. But trust me, the earth is round, day follows night, and a lot of money and time have been spent to build up the USA in international play. My goal is not to be thread worthy. This is supposed to be a gentle conversation among like-minded football fans. Have you ever read a thread starting worthy post? Yes? Tell me, what is subject by, oh let's say, page 13? Something to do with a starlets mammary glands?
Re: Round of 16 should be the MINIMUM expectation Yes. Just getting to the point that we can even think of the unthinkable, is huge progress. But, my original point remains. We need to make the idea of an American side capable of competing, and winning, at the highest level an everyday fact. Here, I think Guinho gets it. The one thing that will really get us there is the one thing that has yet to be seen. The USA style of play. We may of had glimpses of it, in bits and spurts, when we see a relentless defense, a demonically good keeper, and a rate of pace. But those are not traits, as of yet. They are just good plays and athletics. But maybe, just maybe, in Donovan's stoppage time goal we saw something of a USA style. Howard's throw, like a quarterback's, created opportunity. Donovan's ball in set the table. Dempsey's forward momentum (overlooked by the football deficient commentators on ESPN) took out a defender and hurried the keeper creating the rebound. And Donovan's clean-up was all made possible by his pace, and the fact that Howard's throw gave the USA the numerical advantage that a good counterattack creates. Years ago, when I first got on the Big Soccer boards I chose the moniker 'counterattack' because it would show I was all for spirited dialog. At that time though, it was also what I thought the inevitable style of USA play would become -- the counterattack. Counterattacking stylish and established national teams; counterattacking an international community that is not all that thrilled with the potential of the awakened USA giant; and most important of all, counterattacking the dead brained soccer haters of the media, and bar stool, who cling to their prejudice and ignorance.
As much as I agree with the sentiment of the thead title. The above statement balances it out. We go as far as our defense takes us. Simple as.
What is a lot? How about give it in relative terms... A lot for the USSF? A lot compared to the teams we're competing against for these quarterfinal spots? A lot to you and me? Right now we can hope to reach the quarterfinals. Expect to each and every time - no. I'd love to be able to expect that, but we still have a long way to go.
A cycle or two to go, maximum. We just won our first group in 80 years. While it was arguably our easiest group to advance from ever, it was definitely not the easiest group to win, with historical soccer power England the clear favorites. 2002 and 1994 featured much more winnable groups. We should, however, probably expect to reach the knockout rounds henceforth. As for this year's cup. The USA behaves sort of like Star Trek movies, every even entry is better than the one that preceded it (2 > 1, 4 > 3, 6 > 5) . If we follow the trend: 1990: BAAD 1994: Advance to Round of 16 1998: BAD 2002: Advance to Quarterfinals 2006: Bad 2010: Advance to Semis 2014: Advance to Round of 16 2018: Advance to Finals 2022: Advance to Quarterfinals 2026: Win World Cup I'll be 41.
Landon's answer? I think he's saying they don't want to lose at all, but yeah it's enough. Dan Patrick: "Is this now a successful World Cup for the U.S.?" LD: "I'm a competitor, so at this point I think if we lose Saturday, that it's a failure and I'm disappointed, but when you look at everything that's gone into this, I think we're all still really proud of what happened."