after torres debacle in the 1st half after high expectations and hopefulness where do we see torres as in can we count on him again or do we finally put him on that ricardo clark status..as inconsistent and yada yada yada.. im confused..as to say well fail netherlands slovenia costa rica but success v turkey and thats it... what do you think will become of him?
Tough call. He certainly wasn't good today. But I still like him. The problem with him on this team is that quite simply, he isn't a DMid. And in the game that I was watching today, nearly everytime you saw Torres, he was 20 yards deeper than Michael Bradley. As long as that is the case, Torres is going to struggle. Having Bradley closer to go makes no sense if the goal is get Torres in to make some incisive passes to the forwards and the outside mids. If we insist on having Bradley closer to goal, we need to be starting Edu or Clark, because Torres is going to struggle so deep. It's just that simple.
On the bench and behind Benny. Look I really wish he was the second coming of John O'Brien but he's not. He's a decent bench player right now nothing more. He seems to have moves but other than one friendly against Turkey he really hasn't shown to be starting quality and for some reason we do seem to play much better with Clark. In many respects I think the passion for him from fans, much like Gomez, comes far more from his heritage and the fact that he plays in the Mexican league than anything real he's shown on the field.
This seems to be true, he is new p*ssy and backup QB all wrapped up in one, I can admit I was very impressed in the Turkey game after being very skeptical in every other game. There is talent there, hopefully he will be more consistent, but I don't think he sees time in the Algeria game....Bob will go with Clark or Edu.
He is like Kljestan. They are not box to box midfielders. They dont fit in the 4-4-2 unless a true defensive midfielder like Jermaine Jones is on the team. Unless the team plays a 4-2-3-1, they will not suceed. The talent is there in both of them, but they may have come to eraly to the US team as they need a true striker who can play by himself
As a big Torres fan, I was sad to see how the 1st half went for our player... but its still early... and like it or not... the World Cup is where depth is needed... players need to be excellent subs. Just because he may not start for a while, doesn't mean he can't do the great job Cobi Jones did, being an excellent sub... when the US needed some cluth play... we'll see... Also, for Torres to be excellent he needs a supportive cast and flow... like the Turkey game... let's see what happens... Lastly, I thought the Slovenia team played much like England. Solid, body heavy and fast silky players... which means the silky part was good... but these guys had english player builds.. that didn't help...
How many times have you seen him play for Pachuca? I ask because I don't see how you can watch his club play and still think people only like him because of his heritage. He's an international caliber player. He's just not ready to start for us yet. I said it after the Turkey game, he should be the first sub off the bench.
I'm not sure at this point. The Torres-Bradley pairing worked against Turkey, but was full of holes defensively against Slovenia. Will have to look again at the formation Turkey used against us. Against Slovenia they struggled to contain a withdrawn striker who was looking to occupy the space between our back four and midfield, but part of the problem was also Torres often being the sole deep midfielder with Bradley looking to push forward. Torres takes away some of Bradley's freedom to join the attack. As long as we realize this and look to get the ball to Donovan and Dempsey, it shouldn't be a huge problem, but I'm convinced that at least part of our recent defensive frailty comes from Bradley evolving into a much more attack-minded player in the national team midfield than he used to be.
to be fair, Benny did nothing better than him and Torres had a nice shot on goal, Benny gave the ball away many times... This was Torres' FIRST game in which he wasn't good, but others were worse in that first half and many times helped out Boca's laziness...
I think Torres is catching a lot of flack for what was a horrible team performance in the first half. He wasn't that great, but he was responsible for the US's best scoring chance then and created another shortly after. Much of his passing looked weak and I think he wasn't used to the level or style of play. I actually wouldn't mind him starting against algeria though--his game might flow a bit better and I don't think Algeria pose the same threats that Slovenia or England do.
Torres was not abysmal, and he was not good either. that was a 5 out of 10 performance. That said, it was nothing to write home about, and in the Cup we will need our best. I can see Holden being given a run out next game in the middle of the park. If we can draw anything from this game, it is that strong, physically imposing sides such as Netherlands and Slovenia cause Torres a bit more trouble and his strengths are much more neutralized as such. Against a team like Algeria, or Turkey he is quite good.
In my opinion, his 45 minutes is exactly what we should have expected from Torres in his first World Cup start. I was high on him before this game, and I still am. I just dont think he was mentally prepared to adjust his game for this level of play, nor this type of opponent. Torres is young and was playing against a team with a very different style and physique than he is accustomed to. Combine that with the worlds largest soccer stage, and I'd say that he was over his head a bit as a starter. He certainly played more conservatively than he has in the past. I think most of us were excited by his fantastic on the ball skill and his distribution from the dmid position. The fact he tackled well against Turkey showed us maybe he can play that position effectively on both sides of the ball. Remember when he was first brought into the side he was projected to be a left midfielder. He wasnt fast enough to play that position in our system, so he moved more centrally. Eventually now we find him as a dmid. As some others mentioned before me, I think he would excel with a 'destroyer' type dmid next to him- even against Slovenia. Unfortunately for him, he played next to Bradley. A player whom I would suggest plays defense in a similar manner - at least more similar that an Edu or Clark play dmid. I think Jose will be a great asset for us off the bench. A less physical, more creative version of Bradley in dmid. In games where a set piece could decide things, he's a great option late in games to add that extra weapon to the side. Long term, I think he'll be a great player for the US. When he's on his game, he adds something few other current US players provide: comfort on the ball, possession, and effective passing from deep. With more experience at this level I am fully confident he'll show those abilities no matter the opponent.
Im not sure what he did wrong. Its not his fault his teamates didnt know how to use him. Everytime a US player had the ball he launched it 50 yards down field to nowhereland. In order to use a player of Torres's ability you have to play through him. We have to evolve and learn how to hold possession if we want to progress as a socer nation. Cant always rely on counterattacks, other teams miscues, and dead ball goals against CONCACAF midgets. I would love to see him on the field after a year of seasoning in Spain with Jermaine Jones behind him not the coaches son in front of him. Im sure many Mexican knowledgeable soccer fans are shaking their heads at how we used him.
i agree 100%. as such i hope he is a starter against Algeria. I doubt it, but he could see substitution time.
You're kidding, right? Do you recall the first time Bob decided to bench Torres? Or Beasley? Bob's got a doghouse that's all the way in the back of the yard, with a padlocked gate on it, an electric collar, and laser beams.
I agree wholeheartedly. I don't understand the addition of Torres if you are going to have him play d mid. Sneijder, Deco, Xavi, and many other possession mids play up field with a strong d-mid behind them. I am not saying he is in the mold of the aforementioned players, but he possesses the most on ball skill of our mids. The blame can not be placed on Jose. He had no one creating paths in which to pass. Dempsey and Donovan were completely absent from the first half. The fact that we played so much better in the second half is because we realized the game started and stopped having tea time. Donovan needs to be the leader and he was in the second half, thus we won the game, oh yeah the ref messed that one up. Edu looked scared, Benny didn't do anything special. If Torres and Edu started with Edu playing d mid we would have looked much better. I love how michael played in the second half with his fire and tenacity. But I still see him making his mark in the d mid role. He has the ball winning skills to make it there, but I feel his father wants him scoring goals. I give credit to his late goal and for saving our butts, but I still think that if we want to join the elite, we need to stop the long ball antics and play through the mid. If anyone is to blame for our poor play it is Bob Bradley. He chose to start Torres which changed the way we played. He needed to make the team confident in this style switch, and it was obvious that they weren't.
not a knock on JFT, but do you think he's better served coming off the bench like Gomez? or do you think his position might be the LAM spot with Donovan at the RAM and Dempsey up top? Also, what about Holden? that kid has to be included in the discussion somewhere.
How good did Landon Donovan look in the 1st half? Clint Dempsey? Michael Bradley? Yeah, about as good as Jose Torres. Torres is a damn good player. A DAMN GOOD PLAYER. As always, we need to rush to find a scapegoat, and JFT is the most convenient one since he was the only change from the England game. But if either of the other 3 I mentioned above had been the "new" starter, based on their first half performance, it could have been just as convenient to scapegoat them as well. Torres will be a very valuable performer for the U.S. in the next cycle...perhaps as a starter. Right now, he's better suited as a sub who can offer a change of pace...because that's what he provides given the more counter-attack, defensive-oriented style that Bob Bradley has built this team around.
I am a huge fan of Torres. I think he is a smart, quick, and responsive player. I also agree his greatest value to the team is coming off the bench after a good study of the flow of the game. I think he was misused, but I dont think Torres was the issue in the first half.
I watched the game again. Like several posters have mentioned in this thread Torres was no more at fault in the first half than anyone. The one with the most fault for the goals was Onyewu (and i like the guy and can see him starting again). Torres was positioning himself well, but he is not a D-mid. The problem was the TACTICS! We expected Slovenia to bunker, but they didn't. Game plan should have shifted, but it didn't. Simple. MB was caught going forward too often and the Slovenes were just licking their lips waiting to catch an out of form/slow Gooch, kickball-happy Jay, and physically outmatched Torres by themselves. This is the point where our outside backs should have adapted and created a cohesive straight back line. Our tactics won't work when our forwards cant hold up the play or link passes to themselves and require our outside mids to push too far forward, bringing our outside backs forward and leaving our CB's and CM alone. Our CB's need to stay closer together sometimes. Tactics need to change on the field! That being said I don't think we played as bad as the first half scoreline suggested. MB, Dolo, and Donovan had very good games. Boca, Dempsey, Howard Altidore and Torres had decent games. -------Howard------- Dol--Dem--Ony--Boca ------MB---Edu------ LD-------JFT------CD --------Jozy--------- It's time to put 5 in the middle...
Torres is a good player but, I don't think he's a starter for this team. He's better off being used as a super sub of the bench. I hate to say it but Clark is the starter next to Bradley.
We still can use Torres and his performance on against Slovenia was no debacle like some here like to call it. I am telling you guys Torres is more effective as a sub in the second half, when the game slows down and opens up. He is a little guys and easily get pushed around, especially in the first half when everybody is going on all cylenders. Against Costa Rica, Holand, Slovenia he started and guess what, he wasnt effective. Against Salvador, Turkey he came off the bench in the second half, and what happen he was effective.