Tactical Unpredictability in the Attack: Wahl on Dempsey

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by YankatOxford, May 19, 2010.

  1. soccerdisciple

    Mar 8, 2004
    Altidore and Ching do not provide the unpredictability needed against top teams. They are too slow. We need speed and quickness up front. Altidore, Ching, Findley, Buddle, or Gomes, or Johnson do not have Messi type ball skills, but Findley, Gomez and Buddle have speed and are very mobile in the attacking 3rd, Ching and Altidore are not. Historically the midgets are difficult to mark - Maradona, Pele, Ronaldinho, Hugo Sanches, etc. Findley and Freddie Adu fit that body profile.
     
  2. smokarz

    smokarz Member+

    Aug 9, 2006
    Hartford, CT
    man, i am almost afraid to say this but we could be looking at a very frustrating/disappointing Dempsey this summer.

    i don't know what happened to him the last three games of the Confed where he just 'got it on', but throughout the qualifying campaign and the earlier part of Confed it was truly painfull to watch Dempsey. he was often times looked tired, lazy, lethargic, and un-interested. he was playing no where near the level that he had shown with Fulham.

    what gives? i still believe that the US style of play does not allow him to bring forth the best of his potentials. the US game has been and still is too rigid, "know your roles", for a creative, free flowing type of player that Dempsey is.

    i mean he did a rabona and the first reaction was "ooohhhh...did he just do that?"

    it was a fantastic play, don't treat it like a 'taboo'. his rabonas had more accuracy than the passes coming from our midfield and backline.

    guys like dempsey, torres, jozy, and to an extent (Adu) could benefit greatly from an attacking oriented, free flowing game.

    the fact that sacha, beckerman, and benny have more time on the field than Torres is just unbelievable. torres is a starter for arguably the best club in mexico, helping them win multiple trophies and he can't get on the field for the US? that is just absurd.
     
  3. kokoplus10

    kokoplus10 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've already pointed this out in two seperate threads, and I don't think it's true. I don't think he's less effective for us. I think the team around him is less effective to some degree.

    And what exactly constitutes "less effective"? He's got a good strike rate for us, puts in the shift on defense and keeps the ball moving. Pretty much everything he does for Fulham. Sooooo.....????

    Also consider this timeline:

    2008-2009: Dempsey plays very well for Fulham.

    Spring 2009: Dempsey gets injured.

    Spring-Summer 2009: Injury carries over into qualifying games and Confederations Cup.

    Summer-Fall 2009: BigSoccer begins topic "Why can't Clint play for us like he does for Fulham."

    IMO the media, fans, etc. were/are jumping to conclusions here. Dempsey plays well for us. He may have seemed tired/disinterested/etc. but injury was a factor there. That performance has carried on in our minds. We need to put it to bed and see how he performs in this Cup.
     
  4. kokoplus10

    kokoplus10 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He was injured the entire time, we were down a man for much of the two games you reference, and when we moved him up top when he didn't have to cover as much ground on a bum leg he was effective.

    I don't understand why people continue to ignore his injury and the fact that we were down a man in the games he was "tired, lazy, etc."

    Everyone looks like crap when you're down a man to Brazil.
     
  5. Grumpy in LA

    Grumpy in LA Bringing It Since 1807™

    Sep 10, 2007
    Chicago
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not to mention that, even with Dempsey injured, only two players covered more ground in that tournament than he did.
     
  6. smokarz

    smokarz Member+

    Aug 9, 2006
    Hartford, CT
    i don't buy the injury.

    one can not just turn on a switch and played like he's never been injured.

    and when you look at his body language, it tells you of a man frustrated/lost, not an injured man.
     
  7. fairwitness

    fairwitness New Member

    Jul 8, 2009
    Club:
    12 de Octubre
    It's amazing that not a single word was said about any such "injury" prior to or during the Confed Cup. In fact, his play in midfield was no worse during the CC than any other USMNT game. A hamstring injury in all of them?

    BTW, why was he playing in these games - for 90 minutes no less - if he was supposedly injured?

    And you'd think this hamstring injury would affect his ability and inclination to do Rabona kicks and Blanco hops, especially at the end of a game. You know, might, like, aggravate it or something.
     
  8. RerunStubs

    RerunStubs Member

    Dec 8, 2006
    Do you have a link for this stat?
     
  9. viperdiablo21

    viperdiablo21 Member

    Jul 20, 2002
  10. Grumpy in LA

    Grumpy in LA Bringing It Since 1807™

    Sep 10, 2007
    Chicago
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  11. Grumpy in LA

    Grumpy in LA Bringing It Since 1807™

    Sep 10, 2007
    Chicago
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nobody's saying it was a massive injury. It sounds like it was just a niggling hamstring thing, the kind of thing that a lot of players will play through. Donovan played 90' in Mexico with H1N1. Gamers play whenever they can, and coaches put them in whenever they can.

    Not any more than running more than all but two other people in the tournament would.

    Look, I said at the time that I found the Dempsey bag o' tricks annoying in that Brazil game. But, seriously, it's not anywhere as big a deal as you're making it out to be.

    And, injury or no, the fact that Dempsey ran as much as he did during the Confed Cup--and didn't look like he was doing anything different--should encourage people to stop saying that he was lazy. People can critique his performance (unfairly, I'd say) all they want, but accusing him of laziness in those games is simply engaging in counterfactual silliness.
     
  12. kokoplus10

    kokoplus10 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's not supposed. It was a legit injury reported to the media. He was not 100%.

    And if you say "his play in midfield was no worse during the CC than any other USMNT game", and say that he was terrible in the CC, then are you inferring that he has never in the history of his life played well for the U.S?

    Wow. Just wow.
     
  13. kokoplus10

    kokoplus10 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Bingo. Donovan wilted pretty bad in that game. When you aren't 100% it shows.

    Exactly. Look at the heat maps and distance covered statistics. This guy covered a TON of ground on a bad leg. You can't argue facts.
     
  14. kokoplus10

    kokoplus10 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I get extremely frustrated when I'm injured. In fact, I go harder and usually end up aggrevating it even worse in the long run.
     
  15. Winds350

    Winds350 Member

    Sep 10, 2005
    Took a while to find the Confederations Cup article again:

    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=usworldcup

    and click on RUSTENBURG / June 19

     
  16. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    And there we go, dempsey indeed was playing not 100 percent, but gave everything he had, and it paid off, we made it to the finals vs brasil.
     
  17. fairwitness

    fairwitness New Member

    Jul 8, 2009
    Club:
    12 de Octubre
    Uhhh, you accidentally snipped this part out; a rather interesting paragraph that was right between the two paragraphs you posted:

    Two days before the team is scheduled to face Egypt in its third and final group-play match, Bob Bradley asks Dempsey to talk with him. The coach wants to figure out what's wrong, why Dempsey hasn't shown any of the magic from the past. They have an open, frank, everything-on-the-table conversation. Both men vent, both men listen and both men grow.


    :rolleyes:
    Wait a second. Dempsey's injured. That's what's wrong. So why the need for any kind of frank, everything-on-the-table discussion? He's injured, Mr. Head Coach! Certainly you, of all people, should know that. Why are you asking such silly questions? He's injured!

    Despite the silly question, Dempsey responds:

    Dempsey says he isn't getting enough touches and the team isn't aggressive enough in the attacking third.

    Huh? The injured player says he simply needs more touches and points fingers at his teammates during his open, frank discussion with the coach, instead of reminding coach that he's injured?

    Please.

    Dempsey's story - told mid-tourney to some reporter while under fire for his less-than-stellar performances - makes absolutely ZERO sense.

    And this blurb constitutes Dempsey's injury being "widely reported" before and during the tournament? :rolleyes:

    The only thing reported here that's at all plausible is that Dempsey got his a$$ chewed out by the coach for his less-than-stellar performances and for the crap he pulled at the end of the Brazil game.
     
  18. HouseHead78

    HouseHead78 Member+

    Oct 17, 2006
    Austin, TX
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ZOMG!!!! fairwitness makes another attack on Dempsey! Having your own life is vastly superior to trying to break down someone else's.
     
  19. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Thats the problem with the mentality of this country, we need to go out there and have 'fun' when playing. Like the brasilians before they go out foir qualifiers at home, they are literally dancing samba with eachother in the locker rooms or on the tour buses singing together, working on chemsitry with each other, and it reflects on their smart passing, and sometimes ballsy plays of theirs. Im tired of the american style of play sometimes, where its like everyone has a stick up their ass, and is scared to do any kind of tricks because of the fear the coach will chew you out if you mess up.


    I think dempsey was in the right, as we played like scared children playing vs. superior men the first time out vs. Brasil. We came out in the finals, with our chest poking out, feeling like we for once.... were a world class team, played like we did, came out FLYING... and it reflected on our play! Its too bad we couldnt keep it up, but the better team won that night, brasil. One day we'll be able to hang and take them out with our starting 11 vs. theirs. I am not hurt by them beating USA in the final, brasil for me might win the whole thing this summer.
     
  20. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe you are not Harkes. Maybe Clint stole your girl in High School??
     
  21. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    He just sounds like a jealous player/coach that doesnt get the whole 'trick culture'. He rather our US nat players play with a very strict and rigid style of play, with no life, and pure athleticism.
     
  22. Namdynamo

    Namdynamo Member+

    Jan 1, 2005
    If anyone check fairwitness' posting history, 80% of his posts are attacks on Dempsey. I have no idea why someone has such deep hatred on a player he doesn't even know on a personal level?

    Or maybe he does know Clint. Maybe he was one of those guys that was clowned by the young Clint "Little Rooster" Dempsey on the Texas playground, pulled an ardido act, and was given a beat down of a life time that he can never forget.

    Am I right fairwitness?
     
  23. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    I am not neg on Dempsey but I do find the timing of the meeting and the miraculous hamstring recovery a bit too coincidental.

    PS. As to Milito vs. Dempsey, Milito doesn't get caught from behind.
     
    1 person likes this.
  24. Grumpy in LA

    Grumpy in LA Bringing It Since 1807™

    Sep 10, 2007
    Chicago
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, because it's impossible to be both mildly injured and pissed off (justifiably or otherwise) at the same time.

    Which is why if you look at any clips of Howard yelling at his defenders at the end of this season for Everton, you know he's either a) lying to ESPN about his so-called mild hamstring injury (sure, Timmy) or b) merely pretending to be upset about those defensive lapses, when in fact he's still pissed at Dempsey for trying a rabona in June 2009. Because who wouldn't be still pissed about that and unable to let it go, am I right?
     
    1 person likes this.
  25. #1 Feilhaber and Adu

    Aug 1, 2007
    talk about Unpredictability...............


    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPAA4CFFTow"]YouTube- Freddy Adu skill vs Paok[/ame]
     

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