RSL Offseason 09-10 News Thread, Part 2

Ok, seeing as I somewhat am responsible for starting this whole thing I guess I should clarify some things.
First, I am not entirely against the idea of starting 2 weeks later. I am, however, not entirely for it either. I see it as a very risky move (despite what some think) as it could mess with chemistry (even though we are pretty much the same team) and it will put us that much further behind no matter how you cut it (2 weeks is a long as time in soccer, we should know as its about the amont of time we went from playoff contenders, to out, to back in, to on a prayer, to in again). It was noted that RSL was playing some pretty damn good soccer during the preseason last year. We seemed to have found a rhythm and were handling our opponenets. Then the season came, and we continued that trend... sorta (at home at least) until that god awful month of May came along (you know you loved that thread of mine).

So what should be done? Where is the balance in this? Is it right to give 2 weeks entirely off (not having to report or anything for those 2 weeks) or should it be handled a different way? We wont know how this decision turns out until June or July likely, but there will be a few things that we need to watch.

First, how the teams chemistry is. While it is that same core group of guys, getting back on the same page (as a player i know) is not simple. It takes time and hard work both on and off the pitch. If we come stumbling out of the gates (which we better not as those are 3 road points begging to be taken in SJ) then it will raise a couple eyebrows. A slow start will signal that we werent all the way ready for the season yet (likely) and that this 6 weeks program wasnt that good of an idea.

Secondly, we have to watch the road form of this squad. It seemed at seasons end (post season mainly) that this team might just have figured out a way to be at least a little more consistent on the road. However, this was in a different setting than the regular season so who knows if it is actually realistic. This preseason camp is setup in a way that it should simulate road games (especially that tourney). If the squad continues to play like its ugly sister on the road, then I personally think that will somewhat have to do with the camp and its setup.

Lastly, you have to watch the conditioning of the players. Sure, you all will say that these are professionals and that they are always fit, but I am not so sure I buy that. As many of you also pointed out, there is a difference between preseason fit and regular season fit. I know personally that the one big thing many players need when they go to these preseason camps is to get their legs back underneath them. It will vary on the players (Will Johnson wont need as much as Andy Williams for example) but as a collective unit you need to be at a certain point. This has never seemed to be an issue with JK's teams, and its something that I compliment him on. However, 2 weeks is a long time when it comes to how well conditioned you are.

In the end my point is (congratulations and I am sorry if you read all of this btw) that this is a risky move. JK is rolling the dice, which we all should be at least a little happy about. We dont want a coach that sticks to the status quo no matter what that means (though JK has shown that that can be a weakness of his). Hopefully JK continues this trend in other aspects of his job... such as finding that striker that they sent out to get 2-3 years ago...

 

For what it's worth I did some quick checking on the NBA and NFL to see how long it was between the start of training camp and the start of the season. For the NFL it is between five and seven weeks (camps started from Jul 24 to Aug 3, the season started Sep 13 for most teams) and for the NBA it is about four weeks (Sep 27, the season started Oct 27). For chemistry, I think six weeks should be sufficient.

Conditioning is a different story. Has RSL discontinued the off-season conditioning program they rolled out before the 2008 season? If they are still using it--at least the telemetry reporting and review--then they should have reported in good shape.

If they have discontinued it then I am worried; not because of the length or the preseason, but because they discarded a system that was responsible for a huge improvement in fitness from the 2005-2007 seasons. When they rolled out the system Jason made it known that everyone's job was on the line and anyone who reported unfit was putting himself at risk. One player told me that he had never worked so hard in a offseason and he had never been in better shape when reporting.

If we don't know if/what they are using I wonder why we are creating a controversy.

 

cuz its still 5 weeks til the season starts and we are all getting sick of this offseason...

 

That's how we prepare to start controversies during the season itself. We're in training!

 

Chris Wingert checks in from preseason camp

not much more than some filler, but there you go.

 

Still doing it.

 

b/c there might be more to preparing a team than aerobic conditioning. Or some amorphous notion of *chemistry*.

Then again, there's no reason to keep class in session the full 8 weeks if the professor is realistically only capable of a 5 week curriculum.

BTW, since when does expressing measured concern equate to "creating controversy"? And it's not just our eyebrows here that are being raised--as you seem to imply. In fact, the sanguine psychology of many fellow RSL fans never ceases to amaze.

Fingers crossed. But fully expecting another iffy April/May.

 

Personally, I'm ok with it.

I'm no pro, but I played three sports in high school and I had shin splints by Spring every year.

Non-stop wears on you...training has come so far since I was running about, I watch warmups, moving stretches - it's all so different. I figure trust the people to be pro.

 

OK, so what is so special about soccer that it requires a preseason as long as professional pointyball and twice as long as professional basketball?

Since you believe that it is something other than conditioning and chemistry, I would like to know how much is left.

What do you expect of an 8-week curriculum that can't be done in six?

You are not the only person chiming in on this. "By thier fruits you shall know them..."

I I were in charge I would have stuck to the standard 8 weeks. Not because it is best, but because it would not have occurred to me to do otherwise. But now that it is on the table I don't see any reason why MLS needs a preseason longer than the NBA or the NFL.

 

The NFL's "preseason" may actually be the longest of any professional sport (at least that I can think of). Prior to their actual preaseason, and beginning in May, each team may have up to 14 OTA (Other Team Activities) sessions. NFL teams may also have multiple mini camps prior to the actual preseason.

Then the NFL's real preseason begins with training camp, which usually begins around the fourth week of June, and ends with the last preseason game in the first week of September. This does not include other camps that are entirely voluntary, like the two-week camp that Larry Fitzgerald hosts during the first two weeks in July for receivers.

In reality, I think it is fair to say that the NFL "preseason" really begins sometime in May. At a minimum it is 10 weeks long. Apples and oranges with regard to MLS, IMO.

 

As am I, but I think it will be iffy because of the schedule, not because of the preseason.

The bottom line is, I expect RSL to improve on the road, but not that much. They will still struggle through those first 5 matches. I could see them having 4 points after 5 games. So let's not rush to judgment if RSL get off to a poor start and immediately blame it on two less weeks of preseason.

 

Youre exactly right IBIK.

**SIGH** Cant stand the pre season criticisms. 1 week of practice and some of us are already sharpening their pitchforks.

 

The training camp schedule you linked shows the fourth week of July, which is what I used.

 

Arsenal reported for pre-season training on 7/7/09 and had their first game 5 1/2 weeks later on 8/15/09. Not sure about any of the other teams in England and what their schedules were, but I think that Wenger has some idea what he is doing. Just thrown in for some added perspective. I'm not sure what the ideal training camp length should be.

 

Good catch. So, at a minimum it's 6 weeks long + all the other stuff.

That weakens my initial point, though I would maintain that the OTAs, Mini Camps, and other non-required training done in the NFL shows that it is still apples and oranges w/r/t MLS.

 

Apparently the Goats are dead!

 

With the rebranding going on, do they keep the team in LA, or move the team elsewhere? (i.e. - somewhere they could get their own stadium)

 

More like Red Delicious and Granny Smith

While not done in a team setting, RSL does have mandatory fitness training during the off-season. The way it was explained to me was that each player was given a monitor that they wear. The monitor measures (some things) and the player uploads it to the team weekly. The staff reviews the data and makes suggestions to improve the training. So if the OTAs are added for the NFL then it is only fair to add the off-season training required my RSL.

My only point is that 6 weeks before the season begins is in line with other professional leagues in the US. I am not trying to slight what the other sports do.

 

wow, I must have been way out of the loop on this one. talk about a crazy situation.
If the team does in fact stay in LA (which I sort of hope they dont) then they should go with the Aztec name. Keep that "Mexican connection" with the club despite not having the Chivas part of the name.
As for the colors... why change them?

 

Here's the discussion thread on the Chivas issue in MLS News & Analysis.

 

you added this link just so people could see your hilarious post on the first page, be honest

 

Nah, more like RC Cola and Crystal Pepsi.

I think the average NFL "preseason" is still significantly more rigorous than the average MLS preseason. I didn't adequately express this, but I also think the preseason training in the NFL is significantly different in content (e.g., learning offensive/defensive systems), so that MLS and the NFL are not necessarily comparable. I realize that both of these assertions are almost entirely just my opinion.

Back to the main point of this conversation... I genuinely do not care about the length of the preseason. I only care about the results in those first five games... if RSL starts slowly, JK is setting himself up for the blame, regardless of whether it is deserved.

 

the problem with using results from the first 5 games is that its not a real benchmark of this teams capabilities, take last year for instance. the first 5 games brought nothing but ridiculous expectations, then the team crashed to earth and everyone realized who they truly were, an average MLS team. in the end it didnt matter though because we did enough over the last 8 weeks to win the whole damn thing.

so i refuse to judge an MLS team based on its first 5 games, especially this year. our first 5 games will be brutal since 4 are on the road and i have no reason to believe that this team will be any better on the road than their history indicates. i'd be shocked if we got more than 4 of the possible 12 road points in the first five games. if we manage a 2-2-1 record and 7 points in our first 5 games i think we should be satisfied. nothing in our history would indicate that we are capable of more than a few points on the road out of 4 games. we should win the home game. of course the added pressure of being the defending MLS cup champs will only further exacerbate any bad feelings over poor early season results. even more people will be pulling out the pitchforks and torches if we do bad. needless to say it will be blamed on kreis and his short preseason. i will then laugh at those people and tell them to completely forget what happened in the first 5 games because it has almost 0 bearing on what the team will look like (standings wise) in october.

the length of the preseason does not matter when it comes to MLS. there is so much carry over from season to season and the season is so long that preseason has little effect on what a teams standing will look like by october. this has been shown every single year.

 

With 4 of 5 games on the road... I feel like:

7 points would be a decent start for the first 5 games.

Win the home game. Win one road game and tie one of the other 3 games.

I think that's a reasonable target/expectation for the team. Anything better than that would be a great start!

 

With 4 of 5 games on the road... I feel like:

7 points would be a decent start for the first 5 games.

Win the home game. Win one road game and tie one of the other 3 games.

I think that's a reasonable target/expectation for the team. Anything better than that would be a great start!