Baskeball "World Cup" gets no respect

Discussion in 'Other Sports' started by SoccerScout, Aug 13, 2002.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. tcmahoney

    tcmahoney New Member

    Feb 14, 1999
    Metronatural
    Re: Re: Re: Re: you are forgetting

    I don't understand, either.

    I do know I am getting very sleepy.
     
  2. NawlinsFats

    NawlinsFats New Member

    Jul 8, 2002
    New Orleans, LA
    We've only won two of these tournaments since the 1950's

    These tournaments? The Olympics or the Worlds? Olympics; 2000, 96, 92, 84, 76, and we haven't cared about the worlds since... forever. Bottom line, undefeated since NBA players have played.
     
  3. rangers00

    rangers00 Member

    Jun 1, 2000
    As I said, the claim that the world treat WC more important than the Olympics in BASKETBALL and HOCKEY is just that, an idle speculation. Where is the basis to support such a claim?

    At least that's not true in ice hockey. There is absolutely no way you can argue that. Since the NHLers participate, the Olympics featured the best talent possible, the WC can't because of conflicts with the Stanley Cup. I mean, when was the last time you saw the best talent competing in the World Championship? Hasek? Jagr? Selanne? Lidstroem? Forsberg? Federov? Bure? I am not even talking about Americans or Canadians here...

    And I have yet to see any evidence that the world treats the basketball WC more seriously than the Olympics. Ratings? coverage?
     
  4. rangers00

    rangers00 Member

    Jun 1, 2000
    Re: you are forgetting

    What is this ESPN+ in Latin America? Is it a PPV outlet? I've never heard of it.

    http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/sports/tvlistings/deportes/deportesScheduleShow?sport=BK&showid=IW

    Seems like all the WC games are on ESPN+.

    If it's PPV, it simply means that Latin America treats de Mundial de Básquetbol the same as USA treats the European championship soccer.
     
  5. rangers00

    rangers00 Member

    Jun 1, 2000
    ESPN has a very good page on the American involvement in the World Championship over the years.

    http://msn.espn.go.com/oly/s/2002/0827/1423391.html

    In the early years, while the U.S. sent its best collegiates to the Olympics, we only sent the AAU or Air Force to the World Championship. That's why Brazil and Argentina have been winning these tournaments in the early years.

    The first real player in the U.S. to play in the WC was Willis Reed in 1963, in the 4th tournament, while he was still a college student. Bill Walton played in the 1970 tournament as a high-schooler.
     
  6. Stan Collins

    Stan Collins Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Silver Spring, MD
    It's all over the place in the media. For instance, the coach of the team, George Karl:

    http://usa2.tempdomainname.com/men/02_mwc_karl_pressconf.html

    Here's another:

    http://espn.go.com/nba/columns/may_peter/1415606.html

    I don't know why we're talking about ice hockey. I have no comment about ice hockey.
     
  7. rangers00

    rangers00 Member

    Jun 1, 2000
    You know the funny thing about these remarks you quote? As in the MLS vs NHL comparison in this forum, it's always the MLS fans in the forum yapping

    "we are no worse than the NHL", "we draw comparable ratings to the NHL but why do we only get 10% of their TV money?" "MLS is just behind the NHL as the big 5..."

    Ever seen the NHL try to compare itself with MLS?

    That's true for all the inferior entities trying to catch up with the superior entities. You use every chance to compare to them.

    I'll believe the World Championship is more important than the Olympics if there comes a day that the Olympics media claim:

    "Olympics basketball is every bit as important as, if not more important than, the World Championship around the world".

    Simply put,the Olympic media simply don't talk about the WC, or the importance of Olympic basketball at all. It's the World Championship media that has to bring up the Olympics to compare.

    And if you believe what George Karl said, I can't help it. He's coaching the WC, not the Olympics. How should he put it? Should he say

    "Well, I am coaching a tournament not as important as the Olympics, but since they didn't choose me to coach the Olympics, which went to that SOB Rudy T, I have to settle for coaching a 2nd fiddle tournament..."

    or

    "This tournament is important!!!! The rest of the world treat this as the #1 tournament in basketball. That's why I am selected to coach Team USA"

    Well, comparing Karl and other Olympic coaches like Daly and Wilkens, the answer is obvious. I leave out Rudy T because he coached in both 1998 and 2000.
     
  8. kycelt

    kycelt New Member

    Jul 5, 2002
    Shepherdsville,KY.
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can't believe guys like Shaq,Coby,Iverson and others are so selfish and without pride for their countrythat they don't think it an honor to play for and represent it.World footballers consider that the highest honor they will ever recieve,to represent their country.I don't believe the argument about protecting multi-billionaires either many footballers make incredible amounts of money as well,but will not hesitate to come forward when called upon to represent their country.
     
  9. lion

    lion New Member

    Feb 22, 2002
    Basketball in China is nowhere near as popular as cricket is in China. So the cumulative global numbers for the two sports will be close -- you cannot be so sure that basketball will definitely be no.2.

    FIBA has 212 members; FIFA has 204 members. So by your reasoning basketball has to be more popular than soccer.
    Basketball's 212 vs cricket's few might mean that basketball is more spread out in popularity, but that does not necessarily make it such an open-and-shut case in terms of the actual number of individual fans as you so sanguinely make it out to be.
    Your throwing out the 212 number is thus quite meaningless in terms of the number of individual fans (just refer to my chess example in one of my previous posts).
     
  10. Stan Collins

    Stan Collins Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Silver Spring, MD


    The second quote, which you did not address, is from a perfectly neutral media reporter.

    Like, say, the World Cup reporters in the US comaring the popularity with the Super Bowl? Perhaps they're just trying to explain something. That is after all, their job.

    <snip all the part about Karl>

    What kind of idiot do you take me for? If George Karl was the only place I'd heard that, I wouldn't be talking about it.
     
  11. Stan Collins

    Stan Collins Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Silver Spring, MD
    Bloody hell.
     
  12. rangers00

    rangers00 Member

    Jun 1, 2000

    It doesn't have to in order for basektball to be #2.


    Sure I can, you are talking about population of India/Pakistan, which is 1.14b. There are 5b people who are outside of these two countries. You have to have people in India Pakistan 5 times as interested in cricket than the ROW in basketball to be close.


    212 vs 204 is close
    212 vs cricket is a blowout.

    Or the open and shut case is based on your PERSONAL, SUBJECTIVE observataion that India is more crazy on cricket than Brazil in football?

    Is it more meaningless or less meaningless than your throwing out of a 1.14b popluation vs a 5b population?

    Just based on population, you are blown out. Now your only hope is that

    India/Pakistan's level of interest on cricket >>> ROW's level of interest in basektball,

    which you have nothing whatsoever to substantiate.
     
  13. rangers00

    rangers00 Member

    Jun 1, 2000


    A neutral media reporter talking about the WC? I'll wait until he talk about the Olympics during the Olympics...


    Yep, because in the context in this country, Super Bowl is the undisputed #1. Just look at the other thread in this forum. The USA Today reporter claimed that the Super Bowl has the top 10 TV audience in THE WORLD.

    That type of reporting exactly fit into my claim...

    You can heard it from 1000 other places. They are just not facts. They are opinions. What Goerge Karl and the USA Basketball president said in the post is nothing but hype up a current event, i.e. self -promotion...

    Where are the evidence? As I said, ratings? coverage?
     
  14. lion

    lion New Member

    Feb 22, 2002
    1. It has to be for basketball to be no. 2. FIBA may have 212 members, but in the vast majority of those countries basketball is distinctly a very minority sport (to our beloved sport, of course!).

    2. Citing "212 vs cricket" over and over again is garbage considering that we are talking about the number of individual fans (Based on that logic, chess which has 150 or 160+ members is also very popular all over the world).
     
  15. Stan Collins

    Stan Collins Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Silver Spring, MD
    One little problem is you basically never see that. People claiming the Super Bowl is #1 almost universally never actually attempt to compare with the WC, they just don't mention it (witness the current USA Today thread).

    But it isn't, because it precisely (read it carefully) does not do what you claim it would. Which is, make a direct comparison. By that logic, the WBC shouldn't have mentioned the Olympics at all.

    The whole thing is an opinion. This is the theatre of opinions.

    So, given we're talking about opinions, here's some more:

    http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/wbc_foreign_nba.html

    "It's the big games for the rest of the world," said Sacramento's Vlade Divac (Yugoslavia). "I guess in the United States, the Olympics are the biggest thing but for the rest of the world, the World Championship is the big thing."

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sonics/134520773_nbar24.html
    http://208.62.120.191/ecp/sports/article/0,1626,ECP_735_1354723,00.html

    I defy you to find the worldwide ratings for anything. Even for the world cup, the countries for which ratings were available were spotty at best.
     
  16. Stan Collins

    Stan Collins Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Silver Spring, MD
  17. rangers00

    rangers00 Member

    Jun 1, 2000

    Yet in these countries (5 billion of population), how do you think cricket is ranked?

    Is it more or less garbage than citing the population of Indian + Pakistan?

    The logic of 212 vs cricket does not apply to basketball vs football. The logic of chess (150/160) vs cricket may not apply either, but it doesn't mean the logic of basketball vs cricket doesn't apply. At least this logic makes more sense than citing a 100% cricket following in India.
     
  18. rangers00

    rangers00 Member

    Jun 1, 2000

    They sure INCLUDED the World Cup in the comparison. The statement is

    "The 10 most-watched programs of all time, based on worldwide viewers,
    are Super Bowls."

    How is the World Cup being excluded?


    Of course it does. "OF ALL TIME", "BASED ON WORLDWIDE VIEWERS", how do you make the World Cup an exclusion?


    Why does a direct comparison matter? If I say my program is the most watched program in the world, it's a direct comparison to ALL PROGRAMS IN THE WORLD. It doesn't have to be a direction comparison to each individual program: the World Cup, Coronation Street, Larry King Live, Sumo Wrestling, ...

    Yet everytime you quote someone about the WBC, they have to mention the Olympics. That tells me the inferiority complex is still there.

    Of course it's the big thing for him. Geez, how many Olympic Gold or NBA rings has he won? It's funny that you keep quoting players/coaches/federations who are ONLY able to win this, or coach in this 2nd tier competition. I wonder why...

    I mean, how did Divac do in the Olympics? When did Yugoslavia last win the Olympic gold in basketball?
     
  19. photar74

    photar74 New Member

    Jun 25, 2002
    West Philly
    1988.

    And if the Superbowl really did defeat the WC Final when it comes to worldwise viewership, it would have been nice of them to supply numbers. Just because they say its so don't make it true.

    It would also mean that 1.4B non-Americans tuned in.

    I'm a comp teacher, and I wouldn't let this point pass muster. Cite your source!
     
  20. rangers00

    rangers00 Member

    Jun 1, 2000

    False. In 1988, the USSR won the Olympic Gold, beating the Yugo 76-63 in the final.

    It's NOT my argument that the SB exceed the WC Final in global viewership. It's my argument that SB is #1 IN THIS COUNTRY, that football writers will write any BS to boost gridiron's popularity.
     
  21. photar74

    photar74 New Member

    Jun 25, 2002
    West Philly
    OK, 1980 then.

    I didn't say it was your argument. The pronoun in my sentence was non-specific (I wouldn't let that pass muster either). I was referring to the article from USA Today.
     
  22. lion

    lion New Member

    Feb 22, 2002

    I have seen first hand on two separate trips the depth and the extent of the passion that the people in the sub-continent have for cricket, and so I stand by my contention.
     
  23. Baracuda

    Baracuda Member

    Feb 17, 2002
    Portland Oregon
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My top five team sport list.

    #1 Soccer no question.

    A distant #2 Basketball, if you don't agree with this, I believe you are misinformed. There are pro leagues in many countries all over the world, 2nd only to soccer obviously.

    #3/4 Baseball/Cricket I'll be democratic on this one.
    10 test nations, of which 4 or 5 could win the world cup Australia, India, South Africa, Pakistan and Windies..............England? I'd say their are about 4/5 Baseball teams that could win the "Baseball
    World Cup" USA, Dominican Republic, Japan, Cuba. other teams who wouldn't embarass themselves. Canada, Mexico, Venezuela, Peurto Rico, Australia, Taiwan, Korea and the Netherlands.
    Many more countries play little league Baseball than play cricket, but as in soccer in the US kids switch to other sports later on, like soccer. There are childrens/little leagues in over 100 countries.

    #5 Rugby Another sport dominated by a handfull of countries. Australia, NewZealand, South Africa, England, France and also Scotland, Ireland, Wales, Argentina is also pretty good.
    not many Pro leagues outside those countries though.

    After that their are no competitors worth mentioning in team sports. Hockey is more popular than American football worldwide, but only in three distinct parts of the world. N. America, Northern Europe Russia and former Soviet republics. That's it.
    Cycling? Golf, Tennis
    As far as sports that are unique to one country. American Football is probably the most popular in that catagory, probably followed by Sumo wrestling and maybe Aussie rules. The Super bowl is broadcast to over a billion people, but is it watched?

    In my opinion, this is how it is. If I forgot something, or you just think I am wrong i'm all ears.
     
  24. lion

    lion New Member

    Feb 22, 2002
    Re: My top five team sport list.


    For cricket, I will also add Sri Lanka's name to the list of countries that can be world champions. In fact, I believe, that a few years ago they did win the world championship. Of course, in cricket, the world championship is based on one day internationals and not on test matches.

    Also, I think that in terms of the number of individual fans cricket has to come ahead of baseball (baseball probably is ahead of cricket in terms of number of countries in which it is played).
     
  25. lion

    lion New Member

    Feb 22, 2002

Share This Page