Osorio did well last year? He was under .500 and played a pathetic brand of soccer. Anyway, I remember debating this one with you back when. You just dont give Arena enough props. Given a chance, he wins time and time again. Ego, douchbaggery or whatever, he builds winning teams.
Yeah, putting together the best PPG season for NY since 2000 was an action that clearly proved he was above it all. You sound to me like a typical anti-Arena fan upset at the 2006 WC performance and projecting that on Arena when he was in NY. History and facts have proven your "initial" analysis wrong. Might have something to do with the fact he isn't supervised by an incompetant beverage manager with no soccer education. Is this a joke? Osorio was awful in 2008 as well, finishing with our lowest point total in years prior to 2009 and needed loads of help to just make the payoffs on the last day. I will take the guy that has proved time and time again in this league that he can build good squads and win matches. Arena's 2007 team here played attractive football most of the time...then again we had a different set of strengths than LA has. Admitting to being wrong isn't easy, but the facts are clearly against you anti-Arena position.
I thought that Harkes was awful last night. He was trying way too hard to sound intelligent. How many times did he use "carpe diem?" I know you need a storyline in a game and you knew that Beckham would be front and center but it was awful. I wish I would have just muted the whole game. In fact, I would have paid extra just to shut these guys up. John Harkes sounded like he was parroting every word of the ESPN producers in his ear last night. Is Harkes trying to get a head coaching job in the MLS so all the owners could hear him? He was trying to sound so technical and know what the players and coaches were thinking. Harkes wasn’t Balboa awful but he was very close to it.
Well, in truth that is what they are paid to do. The network gives them talking points and stories to discuss. I think Wynalda alluded to that last week on FFF, that they made him talk about and say things on the network that he didn't believe. Announcers suck but just as much o the blame or more goes on the ESPN porduction heads. I mean they are the idiots who though Lalas and Foudy would be great pundits and who allow the "journyman host of all things everyone else in ESPN doesn't want to do" Rob Stone, lead the way.
I think J.P. is the best play-by-play guy we have. I mean who would you all rather have calling the game? Max "YYYYYYEEEEEEEESSSSSSS" Bretos? Dave O'Brien? Edward? As for Harkes, he is annoying. Hopefully we will be rid of him after once Conrad retires. BTW, does anyone else think Keller might be angling for a studio analyst or color commentator position? The production/editing/whatever crew needs to do an apprenticeship in the EPL. On more than one occassion in this match they either totally missed shooting an angle on a close offside call, or simply chose not to give us a replay.
I was thinking that too, he has a comanding presence on air and is very professional in his delivery...not wild and opinionated like Lalas...and just looks and sounds thye part of a proper pundit for the sport. That said, he could end up being a retard on air too.
To be fair I didn't see a foul there either until they showed the replay. The problem was, as mentioned below, that the director was PAINFULLY slow on cuing the replays so ANY contentious call either never got shown or got shown way too late to give context to what caused the player's reactions at the time. And Harkes can have a problem with taking a second look at things and realizing that his initial reaction was wrong. And, as already mentioned, beyond the Becks/Landon love the France/Brazil comparison was laughable. Even my girlfriend blurted something out about that without prompting after Harkes said it. Overall though it certainly wasn't bad in the way that some announcing can be. I'd give it a B- overall actually. It's pretty much this: J.P.'s Champions League announcing was never award winning or anything but it never got in the way of me enjoying those games on ESPN. In fact, I sometimes miss it compared to the Setanta stuff we mostly get up here now. Give him a better script - one that doesn't attempt to micro-manage image control and is adaptable to what is happening on the field; RSL as "plucky underdogs"? Really? Outside of two players I'd take a lot of RSL's starters ahead of LA's - and I think he'd do even better.
Ironically enough I thought the Bruce in his short tenure as a color commentator for MLS was very good, offering fine technical descriptions of the action as well as blunt opinions and genuine excitement on occasion if something good happened. I have always respected JP for his no-nonsense style and Harkes is a likeable fellow, and I hope they do the US games in South Africa simply becuase they will be fans as well as announcers and I'll get a kick out of that. But last night was not their greatest moment, not terrible, but in a sluggish match that did not have many great plays, they failed to dig farther to explain why things were happening the way they unfolded or to explore other storylines. In my mind, RSL totally blew every chance they had on goal, with Mossisivian (sp) choking a few great chances over the top. The announcers did not say anything about it when he was subbed out. Findley scored a scrappy goal, but how about the other ones he flubbed, like the play where Rickets got hurt, where he lost control with his second touch creating the crash? Where was the Mathis storyline, beyond a quick mention of his past status as a USA golden boy, did he play a big part in this match or what, good or bad? No questioning of the stupid long bombs to Buddle, who was totally ineffective. They said how Magee took a knock in the second half but never returned to this when he was dead on his feet and could hardly walk much less pass the ball. Not once in the end did they say something like "The wheels have fallen off the Galaxy and they are just trying to survive on guts, but this team is obviously spent. Too bad Demo was not available NOW, but as we teased in the beginning, is out with the flu, and Becks himself is coughing up a lung everytime we see him in close up. Like a great old fighter, LAG are on the ropes and barely hanging on. But the young upstarts RSL don't have the skill to administer the knock out punch!" No sense of drama, something our boy Max Bretos would have surely offered, often over the top, but entertaining nonetheless.
The whole production was oddly flat, which was kind of anticlimactic after a week of high-energy hype by ESPN and a solid showing through the regular season. Conspicuously missing were the fans in the stands, which MLS and ESPN usually like to spotlight (and with all the breaks last night, there were plenty of chances to zero in on them). I'm pretty sure the crowd audio was even trimmed down midway through the second half to combat that incessant "beep-beep-beep" from somebody's horn. It was the right move, just unfortunate. I'm not a regular JP/Harkes basher, but they were off-game last night. There was little urgency or drama to their call, no gripping storyline built. JP continues to initially misread basic in-game situations, particularly on referees' calls. All in all, a fittingly flat performance for a sloppy match with little rhythm or momentum. Not a great showcase for MLS on much of any front.
I thought they could have said much, much more about the lineups. Instead we got scripts about Beckham and the Galaxy's experience and Salt Lake as the upstart. Maybe I missed something, but I found myself confused as to why Kovalenko wasn't in the game and why Kirovski was. Arena's lineup seemed to merit more discussion than it got. Only after Gonzalez came up lame, did we learn that he had a knock in training. Only at the end did I learn (again, I may have missed it) that Kovalenko was ill. It just seems that, given the role injuries and illness played in this game, the audience needed more information from the outset.
I did hear them talk about this a couple of times, but not in great depth. They merely said he was ill. It was usually coupled with talking about Will Johnson playing with his illness.
I thought it was hilarious when they were trying to show the offside line, but they didn't have the video at the right spot so we were watching several passes in slow motion before the questionable pass. Then they cut away just as we were about to see it since there was action at the other end of the field. The overall presentation of the match was pretty good. I've never been a fan of espn's audio mixing. I rarely like the levels they use and feel they use parabolic and other directional mics too much. The cameras were generally pretty good, but the closeups and the few crowd shots were often awkward and forced. When Ricketts was hurt, we didn't need to be staring at his legs spread wide open and then more closeups of his hand. I expected more shots of the fans of different teams and especially RSL and LA supporters. ESPN had the wrong player's name on a graphic for a yellow card. "The former Posh Spice" looked like a mess, but Tim Leiweke has never looked better. I never imagined he would want to become a younger woman. Last week, espn couldn't spell "Conference." ESPN is normally pretty good about graphics. Regarding the announcing, I didn't think it was bad, but I didn't think it was great. It was what I have seen all season from espn. RSL often didn't get enough credit for what they did since it was Beckham, an American guy and their team versus Seattle. JP was irritating to me at times because he wouldn't just shut up. I felt like I was getting a bad radio play-by-play at times. Harkes should have cut in and allowed the match to show itself to the viewer a few times, but when he cut in he would often ramble about a player. Everyone said some strange things. I'm still waiting for Foudy to get naked and I'm convinced she had a bet with Stoner over saying "on your knees" in the broadcast. I was surprised to hear Stoner and Carlton splitting time reporting from the sideline in the second half. //fell asleep before hitting "Submit Reply" last night
I think you hit on something there. OK, so I was raised on the Bundesliga, Eredivisie, and Premier League, but I have a completely different view on how the game should be called. Especially in Holland and to a lesser extent in Germany and (much lesser extent apart from a handfull in) England, the commentator lets the game call itself and only chimes in for clarification. I prefer that far more to the "Leave no sound space empty" that pervades North American sportscasting. In the end, like a lot of other things in terms of soccer in the US, the broadcasting is trying to find its identity and niche that works best for it. Having said that, I don't think the US should just copy say Sport1 or Sky Deutschland, but at the same time, commenting on a game with continuous action with the same mindset as games that have constant stoppages just doesn't feel right either.
I agree with those who think that Harkesie and JP completely missed the point from the second half on. The RSL midfield dominated, particularly Beckerman, and Harksies' Daddy (i.e. Bruce Arena) almost blew it completely by having Birchall in the game, yet we heard nothing about it. They also did a terrible job of talking about the human drama on the RSL side (e.g. Williams's wife and Mathis' comeback) as well as the amazing success of Jason Kreis' development as a coach, until around the 3rd PK.
Ya, I got the impression they came into the game thinking LA had this one in bag so they only focused on the LA story lines. Then, when they realized that RSL was taking it to LA and might win, they suddenly realized they needed to develop some RSL story lines.
For me, a few of the low-lights were: Harkes said "Carpe Diem"....twice...he called Beckham "Becks" during a corner kick...and he talked about Morales getting hit in the ankle during the replay about 2 minutes after Stone said they were testing his knee on the sideline...did he not see "Becks" hitting him on the side of the knee, causing it to bend inwards??? He sounded almost surprised when he saw Morales with his knee wrapped on the bench...and he said "the technique is there" on Mike Magee's shot...ummmm...looked like he stuck his foot out and the ball hit it and rolled into the net...then he said it again referring to the pass...well, what technique did Donovan use, the swing the leg technique? It was a F'n pass...yes, it was good, but isn't that supposed to be the norm for the league MVP??? JP said Mathis had a good, long career in NY...he played a good season and a half, picked-up a major knee injury, and became such a headcase that his coach wanted him to see a psychiatrist..is that a good career???
I've also wondered about espn's audiomixing. When I watch EPL matches it seems like the crowd volume as they sing and chant will rise and fall naturally. In MLS, as the ball moves around the field the crowd will suddenly seem real loud, and then quiet and then loud again even though I know they have been singing at roughly the same volume the entire time. What do the EPL broadcasters do with their audiomixing that the MLS guys generally don't?
This drove me nuts as well. It happens in all sports and just pisses me off. I can see it at home, guys. Pay attention. They also kept referring to Mathis as a former Galaxy player. I follow this league pretty closely, and I had to go to Wikipedia to remember he started with them. The league is 14 years old, guys. New fans are checking in all the time. Provide some context, especially for a player who has been on six MLS teams and two European teams.
You are absolutely correct. At one point JP was talking about what a great finisher Yura is. The RSL fans were doing the ROFLMAO at that. Yura is one of the very worst finishers in MLS. He is very good at creating shots, but he is definitely very poor at finishing them. Findley has improved his finishes quite a bit in the past couple of months, but he remains a very average MLS finisher even with that improvement. He doesn't have very good touch, either, when he faces pressure. I do not understand why some people want the USMNT to give him a good look. He would get eaten alive in international play.
I can't stand the fact that all games involving LA or DC on ESPN are treated like the local broadcast for either city. Whenever anything happens, it's "how could this hurt the Galaxy," not "how could this help (opponent)." Also, at one point in the first half last night, Harkes was babbling about Beckhams's quality service. Becks then mis-hit a corner right to the foot of the first defender at the near post. It was an awful ball, nowhere near picking out a Galaxy player, and Harkes said something like "and that's a good ball whipped in to the near post."
JP is about 4 years past his sell by date...but then I'm one of the 6 people in North America who enjoyed listening to Jack Edwards, so what do I know? Harksey, OTOH, failed to measure up even to his usual low standards... The Harkesism of the evening was when he waxed poetic for about 30 seconds on how both coaches needed to be very careful about taking out a player who was "confident in his penalty kicks" as time was winding down in regulation. Pretty good observation; unfortunately for Captain Yellow Card, he made it 5 minutes after Bruce Arena had made the final substitution of the night. Is it too much to ask for the analyst to actually pay attention to the match? Seriously...I'll take "Earnie Stewart hit the snot out of that ball," every single time.
They get a thumbs up from me for talking about the Ballouchy - Beckerman trade and how bad a move it was for tha Rapids, and how good of one it was for FSL.