Does Cunningham deserve a call up?

This is a strange cause and effect position to take. Because Buddle wasn't called up last year, that means there is no "room" to call up Cunningham this year?

 

You need speed in today's game. Out of the midfield and at forward, the US speed is Davies and Donovan. Cooper and Casey are not fast and I question Casey's workrate and he slower than average.

Felhaber has decent speed and in the backline it is Hejduk, Borenstein, and Cherundolo; however, Hejduk is injured, cannot trust Borenstien play and decisions, and Cherudolo is small and seems on the out.

You need speed coming out of your midfield and at the forward position. The US only have 2, may be 3 such players. JC has the ability to create to, so I say give him another look.

 

Hell if Casey gets a call up why not Jeff? I prefer Jeff anyday over Casey. Jeff is more athletic and more dangerous than Casey. He deserves it, he wants to play for the US, he could've easily chose jamaica but dedicated himself to the Red, White & Blue.

 

Correct. Buddle's exclusion set the standard. Bob wasn't even willing to experiment with a 27 year old new guy when his style fit the way the team was playing and was lighting up MLS. Granted, Casey kinda breaks that standard, but he is direct backupfor Ching (as much as we hate it).

Cunningham is older and fits the team's style a bit less than Buddle did.

 

the term "deserve" in the title is misleading. Deserve has nothing to do with it. The question every coach has to ask is "who will help the team win"? Period. Many coaches, including Bob, have come to the conclusion that JC does not help the team win. That could be for many reasons of ability, style, etc.

 

Precisely. One only need look at Cunningham's recent playoff record if numerical reinforcement is needed of this point.

 

Don't care what happened in the past or what a coach thinks. Stupid to eliminate a player now because another who should have been called in wasn't. Calling in also does not equal being chosen for even a friendly. Players mature, they regress, they get fit, they fit in better or worse with different schemes and team mates. Cunningham may not work well with the current players with the current coach in the current scheme but deserves the chance to show that. IF he can stay in form his speed would fit well with Donovan and Davies to add another speed threat. If the US was a scoring sensation and stocked at forward a player Cunningham's age would not be looked at. They need to turn over rocks even mossy ones.

 

Have any of you heard of players hitting their peak in the later stages of their careers? Look at McBride he was like what 34-35 when he was hot with Fulham. Cunningham shouldn't be written off so fast. I honestly feel like he hasn't been given a fair shot, so what if he's 30 something, the guy is hot right now and he's 33 he has atleast 2years or 3-4yrs max left in him. He's a player that can help us win and I'd choose him over Casey and Ching anyday. Jeff is more mobile, athletic and a go getter, as much as I'd love to see Jeff get another shot, I doubt it'll happen.

 

I'm not picking on you, because a lot of people have made the same argument.

But I hear a lot of people saying how they'd pick Cunningham over Ching or Casey because of speed or athleticism.

I look at this as Cunningham is a carbon copy of what we already have starting, and adding Cunningham at the expense of a Ching or a Casey makes our front line completely one dimensional. I don't understand why people think that is such a good idea. Someone please explain this to me.
Because where I come from, different game situations call for different options and skill sets, and it's nice to have those different skill sets available to you when the time comes.

 

I see what you're saying and you make sense and bring up a good point, but my opinion, I think Jeff would bring more energy and would be more explosive than Ching and Casey. I'm just not a fan of target forwards, I like go getters, forwards that make something out of nothing and Jeff is closer to that than Ching and Casey.

 

The thing is, Ching has a way of making something out of nothing... for someone else. He tends to have a beneficial effect on other players' games. It wasn't against the best team we've faced, true, but it's no coinidence that the last time we had a player who scored a hat-trick, that player's partner was Ching. The first time we ever took a lead at Azteca, Ching played a role in that play (I wouldn't be surprised if most completely missed it). I know he got a lot of flack for that game, but that crucial little bit was almost entirely missed. And he has a very good, almost telepathic understanding with his former teammate (and our best field player) Donovan.

He probably will not be my first choice to start in the World Cup. I'd rather go with Jozy and Davies if they're not well off-form. But, at the present, he's still my 3rd choice, and 4th is some ways back (that presently being Cooper, and pushing Dempsey or Donovan up front seriously competes with starting him on the field).

 

Barry Bonds? Roger Clemens? Mark McGwire?

 

not much in soccer.

 

Maybe Cunny needs a little juice!

 

i meant as in havent u heard of soccer players hitting their peak in late stages, thats why i mentioned mcbride, im not saying it doesnt happen, my point is that it does happen and that is what is happening to Cunningham

 

Does he deserve a call up?

Yes.

 

If Cunningham can score in an important international game , that's the job of forwards.

Casey and Ching have clearly shown they are no threat to score .

I'll take Cunningham's scoring even if it is " one dimensional".

 

Except, of course, that Ching has scored in international matches and Cunningham has not. JC has not played a ton of games, so it's not the end of the world, but if your criteria is a player who has scored "in an important international game" Ching comes closest of the 3. Jus saying.

 

Yo Pats77,

I don't think anyone is saying be one dimensional. I think the argument is why Ching AND Casey? Cunningham and CD9 are similar but not the same. I also understand that Ching and Casey are not the same but their speed at the international level makes them both liabilities. Also Cunningham has more than just speed to get behind defenses (one of the most preferred traits of intl caliber strikers), his recent form and finishing is also a highly desired trait. These two traits will nearly always rate higher than a striker who plays like a holding mid. It's just a fact.

Unfortunately for Ching, his game is comparable to a 6'8" point guard who can't shoot but does all the little things.

Unfortunately for Cunningham, his game is comparable to a 6'2" shooting guard who is streaky as hell.

Which player do you put on the team?

I think there are a lot more streaky shooting guards w/ championship rings than point guards who can't shoot.

Just sayin'

I don't know if that is what is happening w/ JC but if I were picking a squad, he would at least get called in. If he can consistently show himself to be a dangerous element, he will be in the 18. If not he will be a great player to replicate the speed of the opponent. Surely the opponent will not be playing at BC's or Casey's speed. So I'm not even sure if I would call them to fill out the squad for practice. Maybe one. But certainly not the both. What exactly can be learned by practicing against these players? What do they bring to the attack that is not already known?

 

Funny thing about facts it that when the criteria used to arrive at said facts are based in unfounded and inaccurate bias, they are rarely ever facts, just opinions molded into the guise of a fact.

In terms of speed, I don't advocate using Ching or Casey as the guy you want to get in behind the defense. Quite frankly I'm not that high on Casey, but he is the closest thing we have to a Ching should Ching go down. Here is why I value Ching. He flat out makes people around him better. He sacrifices his body for the team every second of every minute he is out there. He can take the air out of the game and grind the pace down as a late game sub.

As Marko was saying earlier, it's no small coincidence that Jozy scored a hat trick with Ching as his strike partner.

And for a guy that is absolutely no threat to ever score, Ching's 10 international goals in 43 caps says otherwise. Not the most intimidating of strike rates, but taking everything else that he brings to the table that no other player in our pool can bring, and I'd say he's heads and shoulders above Cunningham as an international striker.

Well, since you like basketball analogies, I'll give you a more accurate one. I'll be specific too.

Brian Ching is like Luke Walton of the Lakers. He's not really a point gaurd, he's not really a point forward. He's the guy who sets up in the high post, sets screens, and has the vision to find his more athletic teammates making cuts to the hoop off of him. He's big and can defend well. He has great vision and works hard off of the ball. And when push comes to shove he makes his teammates better. He isn't the #1 or even the #2 scoring option, but he can get his points here and there. He'll never make the cover of a Wheaties box, but every guy in the locker room knows just how valuable he actually is.

Undestanding what Brian Chings skill set and role are with the U.S. national team seems to be the biggest problem that people on here have.

P.S. Even if Ching were a point guard, I'd take a Jason Kidd type of player (point guard who can't shoot) on my team every day of the week and twice on Sunday over a streaky two guard. The streaky shooter is a dime a dozen.

 

Let me attempt to classify the player pool situation for forwards:

Post-Up Type: Ching, Casey

Opportunist Type: Dempsey (also starting midfielder), Cooper

Speed Type: Davies, Donovan (also starting midfielder), Cunningham, Eddie Johnson, Adu

Hybrid Type (between post-up and speed): Altidore

The one who seems most vulnerable (besides Johnson and Adu) is Cooper because Dempsey is already the "opportunist" forward who can be replaced by Holden in midfield.

If Bradley is comfortable with Donovan as the backup speed forward and is willing to put Torres/Feilhaber/Rogers in midfield as Landon's replacement, then we do not need a reserve speed forward.

As for Cunningham, he first has to get called into camp in January, and that itself is not a given.

 

The problem with this analogy is that the point guard is, over his club career, equally good at shooting as the shooting guard and mucy better at the higher level at shooting. Given this, the choice is indeed obvious - the streaky shooting guard brings no advantages except his current hot streak, which has been seen before with no impact on the international level.

 

Adu is slow, and if he is to have any future at all as a soccer player, he will learn to play in the midfield. Plain and simple. Other than that, I think you are more or less accurate with your assessment. Although Altidore is a lot faster than most people on here want to give him credit for.

 

This is the best argument for not taking JC. Look, I'm not excited about JC going to SAfrica. I'm just saying give him a chance to prove what he's got, he might be the least unexciting choice.

But I certainly see the argument for taking an exciting mid rather than a "oh well, I guess he's better than the rest" Cunningham.

 

Oh man - I feel like the fat guy in the Fed Ex commercial. Guess that make GVPAT the good-looking shallow one - I want to be the good looking shallow one!!!