Stadium Update

Discussion in 'Sporting Kansas City' started by RobbHeineman, Sep 8, 2009.

  1. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, that was the original plan. That one is not happening last I heard. I believe the new casino is going to be a "Hollywood" style casino whatever that means....
     
  2. DavidFicklin

    DavidFicklin New Member

    Nov 29, 2007
    Kansas City
    Hey guys: long time – no post. Sorry about that.

    For those of you who came out to last night’s STH BBQ & Q&A at Swope, we really enjoyed the opportunity to talk with you, for those who weren’t able to attend…we missed you, so please don’t hesitate to stop Robb or me at a game we’re more than happy to talk stadium design…it’s one of the more fun parts of our jobs. And for those of you who are not yet STH, shame on you…and please call Sam to take care of that problem ASAP.;)

    Anyway, one of the great pleasures working for this organization is the passion you, our fans, have for the club. There seem to be enough questions about these images and why we even showed them, that it warranted a short explanation. Unfortunately, that’s not possible. Once I get started talking about the design process, it’s hard to stop…so apologies in advance for the long post.

    One of the design tools utilized by our architects at POPULOUS is a 3D modeling software called SketchUp. The images Thad and Mike have posted are from SketchUp. We aren’t using it as a rendering program, but simple as a tool to study the design as it progresses. We use it to change the size and shape of element, measure spatial relationships, and most importantly, walk through or even go inside spaces to get a good understanding for size and feel of rooms or concourses. We also use it to understand what that the sightlines look like from any point in the building. It’s really a pretty cool tool. It speeds up the design process by allowing us to work with our architects to advance and resolve design issues in real time (as opposed to talking about it, waiting for the architect to go back and draws it, then see it the next week).

    The images we showed are simply snapshots in time of the design on that day. We actually debated whether to even show them. The challenge is they are not detailed, and certainly not final. And with some areas we like how things are working out but in other areas we have already identified issues where we need to continue to refine or even change the design from what these images show. But we know we’ve kept you waiting for a long time (too long to most of you) for views of the Hillcrest Road stadium so we thought we would try to pay you back by giving you an “insiders view” of the evolutionary of the design - all the way from beginning concepts, to final design and then through construction.

    Our goal has always been to build the best MLS stadium in the country. Neither lack of time nor a challenging site will change that goal. But “best” is subjective, so here’s what it means to us:

    • The fan experience for every single price range is second to none, not just in KC but anywhere, anytime, anyplace.
    • The value per the cost of the experience is judged to be to be the best in KC.
    • The design creates an intimate, loud and intimidating atmosphere to build a true home field advantage.
    • The players are provided the best facilities in which to perform and as a result this serves to attract the very best players to KC.
    • We create a facility with enough revenue generating opportunities to ensure the team is profitable for the long term.
    • And finally, the design needs to help grow the game.
    As you can see many of these goals go well beyond the “architecture” of the stadium. And that’s really the point of what we are working so hard to create.

    Anyone can build a generic Euro-style stadium, some of which are really cool, by the way. But we’re not in Europe. Our culture is different, as is our country’s knowledge of the game, and the understanding of what it means to “be a soccer fan”. American’s expectations of fan experience and amenities are different, and our building codes and even laws are different. Even within our fan base, we have a diverse following that attends for many different reasons. And every reason is valid and important for us to satisfy with the design.

    In short, we think an authentic American soccer stadium recognizes all of these issues and successfully addresses every one of them.

    Here are a couple of elements where we thought you might like to hear what we’re thinking:

    • The Cauldron - Designed for a capacity of 2,000, it occupies the entire north end and continues south along the east (non suite) stand past the outside edge of the penalty box. The section is about 9 rows deep. One of the reasons for this is that we’ve listened as you shared the challenge of organizing the many different groups into one and get everyone singing together. We’re hoping this size and layout helps solve that. The section is “L” shaped to allow for a better opportunity for call and response chants. On the east side the seating is designed with a different rake and separated from the seating above it, this will allow the entire section to stand and not block the view of those sitting behind the section. And yes the north end has a roof above, but it is not part of the main roof. This stand takes its cue from the old English stands with its own intimate roof covering. We are trying to make it function like a band shell, to amplify and focus the “music” toward the rest of the bowl. And yes, there is a second video board planned within your view. It just won’t be as big as the main one above you.
    • Cauldron Club – Our vision for this is to create a club where the most passionate fans have a true home of your own. It operates as an exclusive club with its own entrance, dedicated indoor and outdoor club space complete with bars and food stands. It opens directly into the Cauldron seating. One of the highlights is a massive BBQ grill area. We plan to partner with a local grocery to offer ready-to-grill meats at the same cost you would pay if you bought in store and brought it with you. You will be able to “grill your own” or our master grillers (think Sam and Chad) will be happy to do it for you. Then of course there are the beverage options. Our Drop Kick Ale will be served from the cask as it was originally envisioned when we created it with the fine folks from the Weston Brewing Company. But other fine beers will be standard, Guinness comes to mind as a start, but it’s really up to you to let us know what you like to drink. For the connoisseurs we’re committed to have what you want, for the price conscious, again, we plan to price it comparable to the store -bought.
    With food and drink now in hand, next envision the great hall filled with long communal tables, similar to a Bavarian Beer Hall during Oktoberfest, next add in plenty of flat screens, and great sound system for live and recorded music. Our goal is to make this the best support space in soccer, anywhere in the world. This is our vision of what we want to do in these areas. Now give us some feedback. What do you like, what have we forgotten?
    • Now on to the roof. Like the rest of the design, it’s a work in progress, with much refinement still to come. From our perspective, our roof must satisfy many objectives, with two of the most important being holding in, amplifying and directing the sound, and creating a sense of intimacy for the bowl. But is also must offer protection from the elements, whether it be the sun or rain. Although nothing short of an dome will protect us from a horizontal sleet storm like we had on April 5th ! Above the stage end it must be high enough and structurally reinforced to support sound and light rigging. The SW corner also needs to be higher to allow pitch views from the hotel bar and super suites above it. We agree, the east stand roof as represented is too high. We’ve already directed our architects to lower it so it better achieves goals 1 & 2. Aesthetically it is envisioned to glow at night and functional must still be semi-transparent to allow enough sunlight to grow a world-class 75-yard x 120-yard natural grass pitch.
    This is just a start, there’s the sports bar, restaurants, events plaza, stadium hotel, and field level club…and many other elements we will reveal as the process continues.

    As for the “look” of the stadium, there’s a whole philosophy that is guiding the aesthetic, one that we have pushed our architects hard to develop. And as the authors of that philosophy, we will have them to present it directly at a later date. We think you will appreciate the thought behind it and that it helps to better understand not only how, but why the design will evolve the way it will over the coming months.

    Hopefully it’s becoming clear that we approach our stadium differently from others and that the building is about so much more than just architecture. We’ve spent almost three years developing an our fan experience strategy, and we work daily with our deign team on ways to execute it. Because that is what we hope will distinguish our stadium, and help grow the beautiful game to the level we all want it to achieve.

    Thanks for reading.

    Go Wizards,
    DF
     
  3. Abracadabra

    Abracadabra BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 11, 2006
    Olathe, Kansas
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, yeah but there are already two stadiums in MLS that have purely ornamental roofs; I really don't want to be #3. I would prefer a utilitarian roof that performs just one useful function than a sculpture that performs none.[/QUOTE]
     
  4. kcscsupporter

    kcscsupporter Member+

    Apr 17, 2002
    D17
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    thanks for the informative post. the bavarian-style beer hall sounds fantastic.

    just a curious question about the cauldron end. you mention how it'll be separated from other seats specifically because you don't want those standing to interfere with the sight lines of other patrons. do you all intend to have seats in this section, bleachers, or a german stadium-style terrace?
     
  5. BlacknBlueKC

    BlacknBlueKC New Member

    Nov 20, 2008
    The 913
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Suddenly I'm super hungry for BBQ at 10 at night. But in all seriousness, always love reading posts on here from the Front Office. Thanks David.

    Now, I'm not a regular in the Cauldron (normally a bleacher hand sitter) but some cool ideas that come to mind for the club area is making the space available during the week for sign, poster, and flag creation. And if even having a storage closet for flags, drums, whatever would be helpful to Cauldron leadership then that would be cool too.

    Everything else is sounding great or sounds like it's on track to be great. Probably will take time for me to soak in before other ideas come to mind. On a personal note, I prefer the Legends location (coming from Olathe) but that's just my 50 cents.
     
  6. NorthbankHighbury

    Jan 25, 2009
    Liberty, MO
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    As I said, I wanted it to keep the sound in and the rain out and don't care about the cosmetics.
     
  7. kcscsupporter

    kcscsupporter Member+

    Apr 17, 2002
    D17
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    just as an aside, this urge should always be acted upon. there's never a bad time for some bbq.
     
  8. jimbchr

    jimbchr Member

    Mar 3, 2008
    kcmo
    Man I love our FO. Thanks Dave for the informative post. We sure have come a long way since the days of Hunt and Arrowhead. We may not all agree with the initial design *cough* roof *cough*, but there's no doubt we're gonna have an outstanding stadium. Let that sink in a minute.....our own stadium. I'm gonna have to take a minute and rub one out to that thought.
     
  9. jimbchr

    jimbchr Member

    Mar 3, 2008
    kcmo
    Whew... done. Somewhere an angel just lost it's wings.
     
  10. KCDEFENDER

    KCDEFENDER New Member

    May 9, 2007
    SW MO
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1. WOW!!!!
    2. I will be reading this and re-reading this several times as I think of any other ideas (but most seemed to be covered here!)
    3. One thing does come to mind of storage of flags and banners, to keep them safe and sound.
    4. WOW!!!!
    5. Will there be a beer mug club type of thing?
    6. WOW!!!
    7. Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  11. aimorris

    aimorris Member

    May 2, 2007
    Orlando, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That supporters' club sounds freaking sweet.
     
  12. Felixx219

    Felixx219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 8, 2004
    Kansas City, MO
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here is a great article from the Kansas City Business Journal posted today and talks about what went wrong with the Three Trails proposal and what the future holds with it. Something interesting I read is that Cerner plans to initially create 8,000 jobs with the two projects and expand that to 20,000 by 2020. That's a lot of jobs created by one company.

    http://kansascity.bizjournals.com/kansascity/stories/2009/09/21/story1.html?b=1253505600^2111921
     
  13. kopiteinkc

    kopiteinkc Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 1, 2000
    Shawnee
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I appreciate both Robb and David keeping us updated. However, I have a few questions about this statement from Dave.

    Can you elaborate on this? In what ways are the cultures different? And how are those differences affecting stadium design? I am not sure what the quoted paragraph really means and I wonder if we can get past generalities and assumptions and have a solid discussion on this.
     
  14. Chris '66

    Chris '66 New Member

    Aug 9, 2007
    Brooklyn, NY
    Concert stage in there? Hopefully not like other places, but with seats all the time.
     
  15. radmonkey

    radmonkey Member

    Oct 27, 2007
    Grass requires sunshine and ventilation to grow, those "waves" let both light and air in.
     
  16. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would guess yes there will be a stage. Too much potential for an outdoor venue there to have concerts and use the surrounding area before and afterwards.
     
  17. wadejackson1

    wadejackson1 Member

    Mar 11, 2001
    I'm certainly glad you mentioned the use of SketchUp. That fits nicely with my previous request/suggestion to post a 3-D walk through of the design. With SketchUp... that should actually be a very doable thing.

    Just imagine -- being able to log-on to a site with this simplified model available for you (the fan) to navigate your way through the structure. Check out the sight lines that YOU want to see. Stay abreast of modifications to the design in REAL TIME. Wow!!

    The only negative I can think of -- the massive bitch session that would ensue over the roof design!! :D (which... btw... I think is a GREAT concept as it is presented... IF it satisfies the sound/noise criteria).

    So... PLEASE get your web gurus to work... and share your 3-D world with the rest of us. :)
     
  18. wadejackson1

    wadejackson1 Member

    Mar 11, 2001
    Stadium Message Board

    Oh.. and btw... the digital message board at Arrowhead that circles the stadium (above the lower level).... is awesome. Might look kinda nice attached to the roof at our SSS.
     
  19. KCRovert

    KCRovert BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 17, 2004
    Overland Park
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In previous "designs" the stage was hidden under seats, not an obvious stage like PHP or Columbus. When viewing it closed, you would not know there was a stage.
     
  20. cjgwizard

    cjgwizard Member

    Apr 25, 2006
    LSP, section 129
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wow...informative stuff. This one was a shocker:
    Sounds like it's pretty much a done deal to become the WYCO Wizards!
     
  21. Mutiny RIP

    Mutiny RIP Member

    Apr 15, 2006
    Bradenton, FL
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The description of the Cauldron section with the low roof and BBQ facility sounds awesome! Needless to say, I am quite jealous of you guys. I'll be looking for an excuse to make out to KC, maybe for a WC qualifer down the road. Congrats!
     
  22. TPBinKC

    TPBinKC Member

    Feb 2, 2007
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Another fact that you mentioned before that will be of special interest to a few people (Wade, Andy, Alan, myself at least) is the lighting. Hi Def quality lighting underneath the roof to light the field, the players and the ball.
     
  23. Mutiny RIP

    Mutiny RIP Member

    Apr 15, 2006
    Bradenton, FL
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was wondering about that as well. In an article I read about the German safe terraces, the designers said that having fans standing in a specially designed safe terrace is actually much safer than having fans stand in a seated section. I'm sure part of the reason for this is that in a safe terrace, people cannot even attempt to stand on seats bottoms, arm rests or seat backs, which can lead to some serious falling injuries.
     
  24. Kot Matroskin

    Kot Matroskin Member+

    Aug 10, 2007
    SF Bay Area
    Just two things:

    1) I love the idea of German-style standing terraces.

    2) I couldn't care less about having a dumbotron. Save the money. This is soccer, the action doesn't stop for watching TV.
     
  25. BloodEagle

    BloodEagle Member

    May 19, 2007
    Kansas city
    i would love for the supporters section to be a terrace. isnt their a supporters group in mls that have one?
     

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